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Profile Michael John Hind
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Message 1138459 - Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 18:14:28 UTC
Last modified: 10 Aug 2011, 18:17:33 UTC

According to Fox News their media organisations have been covering up the "flash mobs" that have been causing similar problems in the USA over the past several months. Too using Blueberries to organise event hook-ups ???.. Clearly this hasn't just been a "UK" problem!

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Message 1138470 - Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 18:23:24 UTC

People intent on causing mayhem are using modern communications methods to facilitate their cause. To a certain extent it is similar to armies in battle using field radios. I can't see a long term answer to it.

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Message 1138496 - Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 18:56:33 UTC

What do you think was used to overthrow the government in Egypt? Why do China and Cuba so heavily regulate communications?

The root cause of the riots is Madison Avenue. They have done such a fantastic job of creating demand that people who have no chance in life of owning an item now have a burning desire for it and feel entitled to have it. The result is criminality to obtain it to satisfy the false desire. Uh, is that like lying on a loan application to buy a house?

Perhaps governments should prevent children under the age of 15 from watching the telly or at least advertiser supported telly. Same for the net, a no ads net for kids. Kids are not mature enough to resist the scientifically crafted ads aimed at them. Ask any parent near XMAS about their children screaming gimme gimme gimme! They feel entitled, when they are not. They carry this through life. Life is: "The survival of the fit." Not "The survival of the entitled."

Sigh.

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Message 1138507 - Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 19:11:51 UTC - in response to Message 1138496.
Last modified: 10 Aug 2011, 19:12:38 UTC

Perhaps governments should prevent children under the age of 15 from watching the telly or at least advertiser supported telly. Same for the net, a no ads net for kids. Kids are not mature enough to resist the scientifically crafted ads aimed at them. Ask any parent near XMAS about their children screaming gimme gimme gimme! They feel entitled, when they are not. They carry this through life. Life is: "The survival of the fit." Not "The survival of the entitled."

Sigh.


Societies do change their morals over time. They did here in the UK during the Victorian era. Nothing to stop the media outlets including the web from being forced to become very "conservative" with their output content.

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Message 1138521 - Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 19:48:47 UTC

The notion of "Haves & Have-nots" has been around for as long as I can remember, but blaming it on "The Fury of Estates" is incorrect.

I grew up on 2 such estates, both in Hackney & on leaving school & entered employment, still lived on one. Of course things were hard, unemployment was rife(reached over 4 million while I lived there). We had railway workers, police, postal workers, hospital staff, newspaper employees as well as a fair amount of unemployed. The point being not only did we all get on well together, but we helped each other out with the little things...i.e., some unemployed had no money to get to the labour exchange so many of us drove them there.

Some of the unemployed, when they noticed we weren't around, called on us to see if we were ok & if ill, THEY did our shopping, or our laundry for us(no hi- tech gadgets those days, it was a cause of using public laundries).

So what changed? I'm neither an economist,lawyer,police officer civil servant or politician, but what I have seen in both those estates was the lack of community spirit, a lack of respect & nothing but major drug & gang problems.

I can see the youth of today saying sod it! Police corruption, politicial corruption,newspaper corruption, incompetent civil servants - with all those to contend with, what happened was inevitable & will continue to get worse...
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Message 1138574 - Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 21:03:44 UTC

Just announced here on the news....One of the looters has been caught.

He's a Teaching Assisant at a primary school.

What an excellent example for the children!
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Message 1138575 - Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 21:07:43 UTC

The fox is minding the hen house.

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Message 1138595 - Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 21:34:51 UTC - in response to Message 1138574.

He's a Teaching Assisant at a primary school.


So hopefully not too uneducated, and probably has or had good morals.

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Message 1138596 - Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 21:35:52 UTC - in response to Message 1138575.

The fox is minding the hen house.


And "this fox" can think himself lucky, in some countries he
would have been shot.

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Message 1138623 - Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 22:07:20 UTC
Last modified: 10 Aug 2011, 22:08:37 UTC

I suspect you will find most of the people appearing in court and being charged are not the main perpetrators. Certainly the majority of the hoodies I saw, yards from the electric shop this guy was accused of robbing, were not 31 years old. They were between 15 and 20. This guy just got caught up in the mob. Look at these:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14462271

Some taken a hundreds yards from where I live. I think you can see the real culprits hodded and masked and the opportunists with no face cover at all.

Whilst we may put a few hundred people away I somehow doubt that the organisers will be caught.

A corner has been turned, I believe that no one will ever really feel safe on the streets of the big cities again. We have left it much to late, the fact that these youths from a lost generation could be manipulated by a criminal element means this will not go away. I cannot see how we can possibly engage this lost generation. The do not see the world the same way most people posting here do.

They feel left out on the fringes. They see no jobs and no "respect" from authority, and this is important THEY HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE. The complete sudden cessation of riots tonight makes one wonder how can what seems to be a disorganised rabble suddenly decide not to riot across the country?

I believe this is far from over.

Bernie Vine
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Message 1138629 - Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 22:15:05 UTC
Last modified: 10 Aug 2011, 22:15:32 UTC

I wonder Bernie if these louts were put off by the amount of vigilanties who
took to the streets to defend their communities.

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Message 1138643 - Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 22:44:31 UTC - in response to Message 1138629.

I wonder Bernie if these louts were put off by the amount of vigilanties who
took to the streets to defend their communities.

Well I live in an area that was quite badly hit on Monday, yet I am totally unaware of any "vigilantes" on the streets of South Croydon. Shops and restaurants were open as normal this evening. Also there are still cities that have not been affected that would have made good targets.

I, like everyone in the UK, hope that this is now over. I need to get some sleep, and try and put into perspective all I have seen and heard in the last 2 days. These events have affected and changed me in more ways than I would have thought possible.
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Profile Michael John Hind
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Message 1138656 - Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 23:19:45 UTC - in response to Message 1138643.

Well I live in an area that was quite badly hit on Monday, yet I am totally unaware of any "vigilantes" on the streets of South Croydon. Shops and restaurants were open as normal this evening. Also there are still cities that have not been affected that would have made good targets.



Dalston was one area where the vigilantes confronted the hooligans handed some of them over to the police.

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Message 1138664 - Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 23:37:24 UTC - in response to Message 1138656.

Well I live in an area that was quite badly hit on Monday, yet I am totally unaware of any "vigilantes" on the streets of South Croydon. Shops and restaurants were open as normal this evening. Also there are still cities that have not been affected that would have made good targets.



Dalston was one area where the vigilantes confronted the hooligans handed some of them over to the police.



Great, nice to see my old stomping ground has stayed the same. It was a thriving community back then, nice to see the same community spirit is still there.
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Message 1138670 - Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 23:51:01 UTC

anyone sitting outside trying to protect their property could be labeled a "vigilante". It is only when they go too far(as often happens) that it becomes a problem rather than a short term solution.
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Message 1138674 - Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 23:58:07 UTC - in response to Message 1138670.

anyone sitting outside trying to protect their property could be labeled a "vigilante". It is only when they go too far(as often happens) that it becomes a problem rather than a short term solution.


True Janice...on this occasion they felt they were helping the over-stretched police so kept their actions within the law....citizens arrest as it is known.

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Message 1138783 - Posted: 11 Aug 2011, 8:23:57 UTC

Some of the accused who have already appeared in court.....

Lifeguard(Really?) Don't think he'll be in that profession for much longer.

Postman (got fed up with delivering letters, so decides to have a few free takeaways).

Schoolboy aged 11 (where the hell were the parents?) Probably too busy drunk or doped to the eyeballs.

Millionaire's Daughter aged 19 Hmmn, parents refused to comment. Wonder if this will hit their market research company?

Plenty of others named & shamed too, & the list of professions makes me wonder...do these people have a screw loose?
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Message 1138802 - Posted: 11 Aug 2011, 11:41:46 UTC - in response to Message 1138783.
Last modified: 11 Aug 2011, 12:15:09 UTC

Some of the accused who have already appeared in court.....

Lifeguard(Really?) Don't think he'll be in that profession for much longer.

Postman (got fed up with delivering letters, so decides to have a few free takeaways).

Schoolboy aged 11 (where the hell were the parents?) Probably too busy drunk or doped to the eyeballs.

Millionaire's Daughter aged 19 Hmmn, parents refused to comment. Wonder if this will hit their market research company?

Plenty of others named & shamed too, & the list of professions makes me wonder...do these people have a screw loose?


As I said earlier, these were not the people I was seeing on the streets on Monday night. I have yet to see any evidence that the real culprits are even close to being arrested.

From the Mirror website today:
Home News Top Stories
London riots: Young rioters say they're proud to steal
By MELISSA THOMPSON and RACHAEL BLETCHLY, Daily Mirror 11/08/2011

LJ Youth from Pembury Estate in Hackney London.

BABY-FACED and softly-spoken, he seems much younger than his 16 years.

But just days ago LJ was rampaging through Hackney throwing bricks, looting shops, torching cars and attacking innocent people.

On Hackney’s Pembury Estate most people ran off when we approached, but LJ agreed to speak on condition he remained anonymous.

He denied the trouble was triggered by the death of Mark Duggan, shot by police in Tottenham last Thursday.

“People say it started ‘cause of Tottenham,” he said, “but that had nothing to do with what happened.

“People did what they did because they could. So what if we get caught? Prison’s full so no one’s going to go there, are they?”

Surveying the boarded-up buildings, LJ has little sympathy. “I suppose you could say people got carried away,” he shrugged. “I threw bricks because they were there.”

Insisting he hadn’t looted himself, he said he saw people “carrying bags full of stuff”, from cigarettes and alcohol to trainers.

“I saw kids who were eight years old, everyone got involved. They just went in and grabbed what they could. Why not?”

Attitudes were similar in Manchester on Tuesday night where two lads loitered.

Admitting they had been looting earlier, the lad said: “Why are you going to waste the opportunity to get new stuff?

“We could afford to buy stuff, but it’s not about that. It’s about the Government – them taking stuff away... in my case I don’t go to college no more cos I don’t get paid, do I?

“The Government aren’t in control. If they were we wouldn’t be able to do it.” His mate piped up: “Yeah, what can they do? I’ll keep doing this until I get caught. My family don’t know where I am – they think I’m just out.”

But his pal bragged: “I told my mam I’m here. She said ‘Get home, you’re in trouble’ I said ‘no’ and just put down the phone.

“When I get home nothing will happen. I might get shouted at but that’s about it. I can live with that and just keep doing it.”

The boys had no fear of a criminal record. One said: “Prisons are overcrowded so what are they gonna do – give me an asbo? I’ll live with that.”



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Message 1138833 - Posted: 11 Aug 2011, 14:29:50 UTC - in response to Message 1138783.


Plenty of others named & shamed too

I hope they name and shame them all. I hope someone sets up a website where they are all named so that in future employers, landlords etc can identify and shun them.

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Message 1138847 - Posted: 11 Aug 2011, 15:48:49 UTC - in response to Message 1138833.


Plenty of others named & shamed too

I hope they name and shame them all. I hope someone sets up a website where they are all named so that in future employers, landlords etc can identify and shun them.

So future employers won't employ the already unemployable.

Yeah, that'll help.
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