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UK Riots
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GalaxyIce Send message Joined: 13 May 06 Posts: 8927 Credit: 1,361,057 RAC: 0 |
PM Cameron said in a statement to Parliament today, that he has instructed the Home Secretary to look into the opertaion and possible curbing of social networking sites. I believe that the police should do what it takes to deal with riots and looting. In the USA they shoot them. In England we want to block communications between the thugs and criminals during a riot. What's wrong with that? flaming balloons |
OzzFan Send message Joined: 9 Apr 02 Posts: 15691 Credit: 84,761,841 RAC: 28 |
I believe that the police should do what it takes to deal with riots and looting. In the USA they shoot them. In England we want to block communications between the thugs and criminals during a riot. What's wrong with that? I would agree with doing what it takes within reason to deal with a situation. Police officers in the US cannot just shoot looters and rioters unless their lives are directly in danger, and even then they had better hope that no one caught it on video afterward showing otherwise. I personally don't think its reasonable to shut down a communications technology in hopes of scattering an organized mob. As Blurf said, you're taking it away from all those innocent people that are trying to get in touch with their loved ones too, and that's not fair to them. Organized mobs have been around since long before Twitter and the like. They'll simply use other forms of communication to organize their efforts. Trying to take it away from them isn't really solving the problem of addressing what their unrest is all about. |
OzzFan Send message Joined: 9 Apr 02 Posts: 15691 Credit: 84,761,841 RAC: 28 |
(1)In situations of severe civil unrest, and in the National Interest, should they be temporarily cessated. Depends on the severity of the National Interest. If only small portions of the citizenry are affected then no. If the entire nation is under attack from another nation, then probably. (2)When it is clear that users of these social networking sites, are using the technonolgy to co-ordinate looting and criminal intent, then those sites should be made responsible for moderating and removing such messages. Absolutely not! In fact, those very messages can be helpful for study of the situation and the people involved. But in no way should a technology or a company that provides a technology should ever be held responsible for the way people use it. |
GalaxyIce Send message Joined: 13 May 06 Posts: 8927 Credit: 1,361,057 RAC: 0 |
(1)In situations of severe civil unrest, and in the National Interest, should they be temporarily cessated. You have a point 0zzF4|\| and I generally agree with you. Shutting the whole thing down would not be a reasonable action by the poilice. By "curbing of social networking sites" I thought there might be technology available to the police to stop just the communication between the rioters. flaming balloons |
OzzFan Send message Joined: 9 Apr 02 Posts: 15691 Credit: 84,761,841 RAC: 28 |
By "curbing of social networking sites" I thought there might be technology available to the police to stop just the communication between the rioters. I doubt anything like that is currently in place. It think what must be done as of right now is that the police or the government would have to contact the company in question and request the suspension of the accounts. Because of human rights laws in the country where the company may reside, they may not have to comply immediately with all requests. A review would likely be made into the situation and a decision would be made. That's far too much red tape for something that spreads as quickly as an organized mob, which is why I personally believe other options or methods should be pursued. Like, I don't know, paying close attention to your constituent's mood, feelings, and opinions. Likely there had to be some clues that this was bound to happen. |
Es99 Send message Joined: 23 Aug 05 Posts: 10874 Credit: 350,402 RAC: 0 |
PM Cameron said in a statement to Parliament today, that he has instructed the Home Secretary to look into the opertaion and possible curbing of social networking sites. Be very careful what you wish for. The UK is already well under way towards becoming a police state with the government having far too many powers to curtail the freedoms of it's subjects. If you have any sense you would fight tooth and nail against any such proposition. Reality Internet Personality |
OzzFan Send message Joined: 9 Apr 02 Posts: 15691 Credit: 84,761,841 RAC: 28 |
Absolutely not! In fact, those very messages can be helpful for study of the situation and the people involved. But in no way should a technology or a company that provides a technology should ever be held responsible for the way people use it. I pride myself in being out of touch in what governments and parliaments (or in our case congress) wants when it comes to making people responsible for things they should not be made responsible for. [Edit] I mean, where does it end? A person speeding in a motorized vehicle crashes and kills someone, should the company that manufactured the vehicle be made responsible for creating or utilizing an engine that can go over the posted speed limit? Should Sony, OptiArc, Pioneer, etc. be held responsible for people illegally making Blu-Ray discs to sell and distribute? Should a tree cutting company be made responsible for someone getting an infectious paper cut and having to spend a week in the hospital? The answer to all of that is a resounding "NO!". It's preposterous to even suggest it. I'm only sorry that people still carry metaphorical pitchforks and look forward to public floggings in this day and age when we should be leaving such barbaric instincts behind. |
OzzFan Send message Joined: 9 Apr 02 Posts: 15691 Credit: 84,761,841 RAC: 28 |
Well that seems rather anti-climatic. Part of the reason for the exchange of ideas is to allow the best ideas to survive. Simply giving flippant responses like what is found in your last post do not seem to fit into that idea, nor does it allow different views to exist. You're essentially saying, "This is what we plan on doing about it, and if you don't like it, tough!", which is no way any government should be run, or its citizens should encourage it to be. Governments are supposed to be the will of the people, and the will of the people can change for better or worse depending on the free exchange of ideas. [Edit] As for me, I am aghast at what has happened in recent days, I was very young when the Rodney King beating happened in L.A., but I remember it being a major source of contention. And when the police officers weren't held responsible for their actions, thousands, if not more, rioted angrily. Of course, I've always lived in IL so I was always perfectly safe from harm. Or was I? I may have been safe from rioting and pillaging, but I've seen things and had things done to me personally that would make most people cringe in disgust. Yet I wish no vengeance, malice, or ill-will toward those who have wronged me or that I have seen wrong others. I do not think our experiences should be allowed to overwhelm our sense of morality and compassion for our fellow man to have such barbaric thoughts and lust for the blood of wrongdoers everywhere. |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30651 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Chris, if England goes ahead with this, do not be surprised if England is placed on a list of repressive countries with which the USA will not do business. I understand your anger and fear. I lived through two major civil riots. The rioters think they are playing a game. You have to make them realize it isn't a game. A delayed punishment isn't going to get their attention. As to twitter and SMS, better to have them on. Then the logs will convict the instigators. |
Bernie Vine Send message Joined: 26 May 99 Posts: 9954 Credit: 103,452,613 RAC: 328 |
None of you stood in the street whilst criminal gangs, thugs and impressionable "hoodies" ransacked your town. I did. None of you had to put out a fire in bins behind my flats because the fire brigade was too busy trying to put out numerous fires in Croydon. I did. None of you could feel the same sadness and anger watching the images of MY TOWN looted and burning. The next morning I had tears in my eyes watching the pictures on TV I believe that at the moment a large percent of the law abiding public in UK cities would allow the government to bring in ANY measures it deemed necessary to stop these riots and any measures to bring the perpetrators to justice. I am not saying I agree, but I was there and my gut wants retribution whilst my head is trying to work out how we have come to this. Being there and seeing and hearing what was happening has left me torn, unable to concentrate at work, but somehow wanting to help but not knowing where to start, To say that Blackberry Messenger is more important than lives and livelihoods will not go down well in many British cities at the moment. Time is a healer and hopefully the UK will be able to work the problems out. Right now the people who caused this need to know we will not sit by and watch them destroy our communities. This is NOT the USA this is the UK. The USA is not blameless where civil rights are concerned do not judge us in our anger. |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24879 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
Who was it that said........"You can please some of the people some of the time, but you cannot please all of the people all of the time"............. As for shutting down social networking sites, personally I don't think that it will be that effective. On 7/7, I was driving towards my last drop of the day at the Express Depot in Hunter Street when the 30 bus blew up. As soon as it became known that bombs were going off in London, my employers & family tried to contact me with no success - ALL mobile phone facilities were shut down. This combined with SN shutdown may have an effect. It's been said that the innocent would suffer. Really? What did they do before technology? There was the telephone & letter writing. Technology has only made it easier & faster to get in touch. And that's a problem in itself as even the majority of decent people would be upset at having that access denied. Anyone ever heard of Radio Transmissions? For example, CB, Walkie Talkies. Regardless of the who,where,why,When,what & how, where's there's a will, there's a way. |
Michael John Hind Send message Joined: 6 Feb 07 Posts: 1330 Credit: 3,632,028 RAC: 0 |
Bernie, get over to TLPTPW...we're all having drinkies...might be a guinness going too, Sirius.. |
Bernie Vine Send message Joined: 26 May 99 Posts: 9954 Credit: 103,452,613 RAC: 328 |
Bernie, get over to TLPTPW...we're all having drinkies...might be a guinness Somehow I no longer feel like "joining in". The community in my area is "sick" and having a good job earning a good wage and savings makes me one of the "rich". Can't see the SETI boards in the same light any more. Sorry. |
Michael John Hind Send message Joined: 6 Feb 07 Posts: 1330 Credit: 3,632,028 RAC: 0 |
Bernie, get over to TLPTPW...we're all having drinkies...might be a guinness I'm not surprised that you feel like this Bernie. What you experienced was enough to shock anyone. The P.M has already muted that he's not going to be happy if "The human rights act" comes to the rescue of these louts. I read between the lines here, could be then end of this act as we know it in this country. It's about time this act was thrown out and a more pragmatic act formed for the benefit of the whole of the UK. I find it incomprehensible how ignorant these louts are to the realities of life. Back to basic would be an understatement here but parents are going to have to be given back to them the powers over their children that were exercised over me by my parents during the 50's and 60's. Got into trouble like this and my father would have hung me up by my feet from the outside guttering..but I would have had my ass kicked black and blue first. Just the thought of getting a whack of my father was enough to keep me mindful of showing respect to the community when out on the streets. I don't think any of us kids around my way got much if any of corpral punishment off their fathers. But it was the knowledge that it was there and available to be used is what kept us alert to what we were doing. Did me no harm and I instinctively knew not to bring trouble home, and I did not. The trouble was that some fathers used corporal punishment too far and that was a very bad thing. Schools the same, plenty of cases of sadistic teachers but that occurred because of the lack of control exercised over these blighters by the educational authorities during those times. Yet if a child is bought up properly, early in it's life, then there should not have to be many cases where parents need to smack them. |
soft^spirit Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 6497 Credit: 34,134,168 RAC: 0 |
Bernie, get over to TLPTPW...we're all having drinkies...might be a guinness I have experienced the same many times.. some do not seem to understand that the wealthy controlling things are not the person who works hard, manages to accumulate a few things, and serves an active roll in society. It is not your corner baker, it is not the liquor store on the corner, it is not the corner grocery store that have wealth. And looting your neighbor is counter productive. The outrage I understand. The senseless taking from someone else who suffers much the same as the have nots I do not. Ultimately it polutes any "cause" that might have been there to begin with. It is selfishness, just as much as the investment banker who pushes you into buying their garbage for hundreds of times its worth. Janice |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30651 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
None of you stood in the street whilst criminal gangs, thugs and impressionable "hoodies" ransacked your town. I did. Yes, I did. And I knew they had firearms. You didn't face that. |
Michael John Hind Send message Joined: 6 Feb 07 Posts: 1330 Credit: 3,632,028 RAC: 0 |
Chris, if England goes ahead with this, do not be surprised if England is placed on a list of repressive countries with which the USA will not do business. Good point Gary, but from what I heard listening to Fox news the other evening the USA has got it's own problems similar to ours. Fox news went as far as to say that the media has been suppressing certain events of late? Still, the USA has got too many financial problems to wont to make things worse by cutting us off as an export market of theirs. We may be thinking of carrying out suppressive actions to combat techno-controlled gangs but remember when it comes to suppressing criminal activities.."we don't suppress them to the point of execution like you do in the USA" Would this not be a good enough reason for the UK not to do business with the USA? This is not a dig at you Gary for what you do is your business and what we do is ours as long as no one goes too silly? |
soft^spirit Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 6497 Credit: 34,134,168 RAC: 0 |
Do not expect the USA to "arm the rebels". First off, it was not non-violent demonstrations. And no one came in and mowed anyone down with automatic weapon fire. As far as our executing mass murderers, I am a bit less than sympathetic, but I believe to be fair it should also apply to those who commit genocide via corporate dictate. We have some work to do on that front yet. Janice |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24879 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
The debate on this thread is exactly the same as the authorities...every one expresssing an opinion, the difference being is we cannot do much about it, whereas they can...but fail every time. Similar to what Bernie did, a 68 year old did in Ealing, unfortunately, he has died in hospital. As far as the authorities are concerned...they'll just announce their condolences & mark him him as just another statistic. The problem here in the UK is that the beaurocracy is too top heavy & for people to get issues resolved is an absolute nightmare. UK become a repressive country...that is an interesting comment. so in about 10 years or so, we can expect the US to invade & free the people if that happens? I don't think so, we have no plentitude of OIL! |
Michael John Hind Send message Joined: 6 Feb 07 Posts: 1330 Credit: 3,632,028 RAC: 0 |
The problem here in the UK is that the beaurocracy is too top heavy & for people to get issues resolved is an absolute nightmare. The problem here Sirius is that there are to many people with their fingers in the decision pie's, organisation, institutions who really should not have their fingers in-in the first place. Once you treat criminals in a too civilised a'way you then end up giving them an advantage over the civilised. I wonder how much the Court of Human Rights has worked to the criminals favour in a way that it should not have done. Any drink left?...I fancy going back to the bar for another 'arf... |
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