The last government shutdown was under Clinton.

There were many unanticipated consequences. I wrote of one of them.

http://www.giwersworld.org/mgiwer/mgiwer2/canyon.html

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Unvarnished
Haaretz
Jerusalem Post
The origin of the Yahweh Cult

Here comes another one ......

Shutdown

It is all over now. They agreed in principle to cut $63B or so. Now all they have to do is cut another $1,437B to get rid of the deficit for this year.

The mind boggles at the progress made so far.

---

Unvarnished
Haaretz
Jerusalem Post
The origin of the Yahweh Cult

Here comes another one ......

Shutdown

It is all over now. They agreed in principle to cut $63B or so. Now all they have to do is cut another $1,437B to get rid of the deficit for this year.

The mind boggles at the progress made so far.

Quite simply, there is not that much to cut. They need more people to pay their fair share.

And yes there will be much screaming and yelling about it. An improving economy should help as well.

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Janice

Quite simply, there is not that much to cut.

If you mean that the interest on the debt can't be cut you are right. Every other item can be cut and cut to ZERO until the debt is paid. What you don't understand is that it will take years of the government at total shutdown for the people of the USA to pay off the accumulated debt, even with a 100% tax rate on the rich. If you "stole" the entire Social Security Trust Fund (the retirement savings of every US Citizen) and put it towards the national debit, it wouldn't cover half. Are you getting the picture now?! Well past time for drastic measures. You can't tax your way out of this! You have to fire at least half the government.

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Gary, without meaningful tax reform 100% of a tax on the rich and they would still find a way to pay $0.

If rich and corporations were paying 35% of their INCOME, we would not be in trouble. I know I personally need to declare if I take more than $10,000 out of the country. Tax every dollar before it leaves the country.

Tax every dollar coming in.

Eliminate the work arounds, minimize the deductions, tax credits should be stingy. And THEN you can start lowering tax brackets, and actually pay for what the country owes.

Yes we need to watch expenditures as well. But not gut everything going out.

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Janice

Gary, without meaningful tax reform 100% of a tax on the rich and they would still find a way to pay $0.

If rich and corporations were paying 35% of their INCOME, we would not be in trouble. I know I personally need to declare if I take more than $10,000 out of the country. Tax every dollar before it leaves the country.

Tax every dollar coming in.

Eliminate the work arounds, minimize the deductions, tax credits should be stingy. And THEN you can start lowering tax brackets, and actually pay for what the country owes.

Yes we need to watch expenditures as well. But not gut everything going out.

Janice,

Please do some math before you make rash assumptions. You assume the area under the bell curve of income for the 99th percentile can pay for the entire country. I'm telling you to do a basic math exercise. Pick an income number where you can find data. Assume ZERO deductions are available. Set a 100% tax rate. Total it up. Now subtract the total from the US debt limit. Tell us how many years of this 100% tax rate without deductions is required to bring the debt of the USA to zero. Might re-run those numbers assuming the deficit stays the same.

I'm not saying the extraordinarily high income shouldn't have a higher bracket. I'm saying that won't make any material difference in the total. If it doesn't, then you must look elsewhere for the solution.

Here is another math problem. Assume the US Government closes it doors flat out and doesn't spend another dime. How many years of taxes at the current level before the debt is zero? Don't forget the interest on the debt.

Once you know where you are you can plot a way to where you want to be.

One last thing to chew on. Say we slap a 90% tax on income over $250K. Think of what happens to those Lotto winners with this tax. Do you think the Lotto states are suddenly going bankrupt?

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again Gary, if the 35% bracket actually paid 35%, we would not be where we are today.

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Janice

again Gary, if the 35% bracket actually paid 35%, we would not be where we are today.

Janice, are you aware of some tax fraud? Otherwise the 35% bracket pays 35%. If you are aware of some fraud, the IRS has a tip line that even pays the person giving the tip. Please report it. It is your civic duty.

If you want to discuss tax deductions and credits, then point out a line on form 1040, form 6251 or form 1120 and how much it is. You might try http://www.irs.gov/taxstats as a starting point.

Stop crying about water already under the bridge. All gone. I'm telling you the river you want to dam is dry. Do the math.

Oh, if we got the money you think should have been paid, even though the law says it wasn't owed, I think we would be in a much worse spot. If a politician has one dollar he will spend three. Better to get votes and kickbacks. It is the nature of the beast.

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If every Super Rich Elite, if every person with over a Million Dollars(not considered a Super Rich Elite), if every person with a 250K income, right this moment, emptied their bank accounts to The USA Treasury, and thenceforth gave every cent of income or other monies to The USA Treasury, it WOULD NOT FIX IT.

Even after such a Noble Gesture, the Tax Code was then Magically turned into a Fair and Equitable Enterprise, it WOULD NOT FIX IT.

Therefore, I, and Others who GET THE MATH OF IT, We do not Desire to see The Robin Hood Syndrome Spewed Anymore by people WHO DON'T GET IT.

But, go ahead(you don't need My Permission) to voice your opinions. That's what Politics is all about.

iWorm 'em.

again Gary, if the 35% bracket actually paid 35%, we would not be where we are today.

Janice, are you aware of some tax fraud? Otherwise the 35% bracket pays 35%. If you are aware of some fraud, the IRS has a tip line that even pays the person giving the tip. Please report it. It is your civic duty.

If you want to discuss tax deductions and credits, then point out a line on form 1040, form 6251 or form 1120 and how much it is. You might try http://www.irs.gov/taxstats as a starting point.

Stop crying about water already under the bridge. All gone. I'm telling you the river you want to dam is dry. Do the math.

Oh, if we got the money you think should have been paid, even though the law says it wasn't owed, I think we would be in a much worse spot. If a politician has one dollar he will spend three. Better to get votes and kickbacks. It is the nature of the beast.

Stop. Look at earnings and other income. Is it enough to be in the 35% bracket?
If so, and if 35% were paid, it would be PLENTY.

Massage the numbers all you want. But someone with earnings 1 Million + paying less than 1% is basically stealing from everyone that works for a living. Is it legal? Sure. Is it Right? OH NO WAY!!!

---

Janice

Here comes another one ......

Shutdown

It is all over now. They agreed in principle to cut $63B or so. Now all they have to do is cut another $1,437B to get rid of the deficit for this year.

The mind boggles at the progress made so far.

Quite simply, there is not that much to cut. They need more people to pay their fair share.

And yes there will be much screaming and yelling about it. An improving economy should help as well.

Excuse me there is a fair amount to cut in light of realities such as the Cold War is over. I used to work for US Navy and have nothing against the military per se but the Cold War is over. That can cut military costs in half at least.

People live longer so they should retire later. It can be as simple as choosing your own retirement age and paying more for earlier. That takes care of both SocSec and Medicare. It can also be as simple as the 2020 retirement age is 66 and 2021 is 67 and so forth until the income and the outgo are equal. For at least 20 years I can remember reading polls where the 20 year olds do not expect SS to be there when they retire. They should jump at a few extra years work to be assured it will be there.

It is time to let all politicians get all the pandering out of their systems and do what they know has to be done.

=====

Get your damned dirty paws off of me you damned dirty politicians!

---

Unvarnished
Haaretz
Jerusalem Post
The origin of the Yahweh Cult

Quite simply, there is not that much to cut.

If you mean that the interest on the debt can't be cut you are right. Every other item can be cut and cut to ZERO until the debt is paid. What you don't understand is that it will take years of the government at total shutdown for the people of the USA to pay off the accumulated debt, even with a 100% tax rate on the rich. If you "stole" the entire Social Security Trust Fund (the retirement savings of every US Citizen) and put it towards the national debit, it wouldn't cover half. Are you getting the picture now?! Well past time for drastic measures. You can't tax your way out of this! You have to fire at least half the government.

YES the interest can be cut. The debt is what is to be paid for outstanding loans. It is SOP that when rates are low new debt it issued to pay off older high rate debt.

Debt itself is not a problem. Most every home owner starts with a mortgage 200% of annual income without consideration of other expenses. By analogy the country can have debt equal to double GDP and still eat.

The US problem is the rate of increase of debt accumulation. All of the budgets lock in a rate of debt accumulation that is growing beyond the ability to service. And that debt increase is because of entitlement programs which have been fixed in law since the early 1980s as indexed to inflation.

---

Unvarnished
Haaretz
Jerusalem Post
The origin of the Yahweh Cult

Gary, without meaningful tax reform 100% of a tax on the rich and they would still find a way to pay $0.

If rich and corporations were paying 35% of their INCOME, we would not be in trouble. I know I personally need to declare if I take more than $10,000 out of the country. Tax every dollar before it leaves the country.

Tax every dollar coming in.

Eliminate the work arounds, minimize the deductions, tax credits should be stingy. And THEN you can start lowering tax brackets, and actually pay for what the country owes.

Yes we need to watch expenditures as well. But not gut everything going out.

There is one truism regarding taxes beyond being on a par with death. No tax is fair. If all the financial assets of all the billionaires were confiscated this year it would not cover the deficit for this year. The middle class has to bear the burden of paying for the government because that is where the income is.

One can confiscate all the wealth of all the corporations and if it can be converted into cash would cover maybe two years of deficit at the current level. Of course that means all shareholders are screwed as their stock was confiscated. That bankrupts about half the country.

At the bottom line one has to be talking a reasonable average earning on equity of 10% and that gov takes perhaps 30% of that in taxes. 10% of 24 months is 2.4 months and 30% of that is roughly 3 weeks worth of the deficit. In the process of paying only those 3 weeks, all of its employees pay taxes. And taxes are generated by the sales of its products at the retail level as do the retail salesmen and companies pay taxes.

So there are two separate issues here. The taxes the parent corporation pays directly and the taxes generated by the fact that the company is in business. Both accrue to the existence of GE corporate.

There has been big flap about GE. GE is also in the mortgage business and took tax loss worth nearly $40B over the last two years. Tax law says you can write off profits against losses over a five year period -- at least that is how it works of small and hobby businesses. I assume it is the same for big business.

I never wrote a tax law in my life but we do not allow personal laws in this country. If the exchange of profits for losses that GE is exercising it revoked it has to be revoked for everyone. Meaning every company goes out of business in its first bad year.

Any proposal has to rectify the system rather than be feel good populism. There is a lot to be said for feeling good but it does not necessarily solve the problem.

---

Unvarnished
Haaretz
Jerusalem Post
The origin of the Yahweh Cult

again Gary, if the 35% bracket actually paid 35%, we would not be where we are today.

May I see your numbers?

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Unvarnished
Haaretz
Jerusalem Post
The origin of the Yahweh Cult

Cut the Military Budget in half?

Why do you think The Duke has done an about face?

The first time he walked into The Situation Room and saw The Real Numbers; was shown The Real World; was Told how The Real World is A Threat, The Duke turned White and Almost became A Republican.

You People have Not been On The Inside.

There is a Reason for The Bloated(as so many Know Nothings say) Budget.

Your Safety. Your Lives. The Preservation Of The Good 'ole USA and The Rest of The World.

iWorm 'em.

Cut the Military Budget in half?

Why do you think The Duke has done an about face?

The first time he walked into The Situation Room and saw The Real Numbers; was shown The Real World; was Told how The Real World is A Threat, The Duke turned White and Almost became A Republican.

You People have Not been On The Inside.

There is a Reason for The Bloated(as so many Know Nothings say) Budget.

Your Safety. Your Lives. The Preservation Of The Good 'ole USA and The Rest of The World.

iWorm 'em.

You crack me up DW
So now you're an insider too? LOL again.

Keep building up your weapon piles, all in the name of safety, security and the good old USA.
Just remember, if you place a big red button in a room full of monkies, eventually one of those monkies will push that button.

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I do not fight fascists because I think I can win.
I fight them because they are fascists.
Chris Hedges

A riot is the language of the unheard. -Martin Luther King, Jr.

again Gary, if the 35% bracket actually paid 35%, we would not be where we are today.

Janice, are you aware of some tax fraud? Otherwise the 35% bracket pays 35%. If you are aware of some fraud, the IRS has a tip line that even pays the person giving the tip. Please report it. It is your civic duty.

If you want to discuss tax deductions and credits, then point out a line on form 1040, form 6251 or form 1120 and how much it is. You might try http://www.irs.gov/taxstats as a starting point.

Stop crying about water already under the bridge. All gone. I'm telling you the river you want to dam is dry. Do the math.

Oh, if we got the money you think should have been paid, even though the law says it wasn't owed, I think we would be in a much worse spot. If a politician has one dollar he will spend three. Better to get votes and kickbacks. It is the nature of the beast.

Stop. Look at earnings and other income. Is it enough to be in the 35% bracket?
If so, and if 35% were paid, it would be PLENTY.

Massage the numbers all you want. But someone with earnings 1 Million + paying less than 1% is basically stealing from everyone that works for a living. Is it legal? Sure. Is it Right? OH NO WAY!!!

Do you have no clue about how many people in the US make a million a year? Do you have any clue how many millions we are in debt? Do you not know how much in total is made by people making one million or more? Are you totally afraid of doing the math because it might cause you to believe something different?

Okay, lets take a guy who makes a million. Turns out he is unlucky and his kid has a rare condition that insurance won't cover and he pays $500K in medical bills. As he is a nice guy he gives another $400K to a charity that funds research into the condition looking for a cure. So we get to his adjusted gross income line on his form 1040 and we see $100K on that line. You want him to pay 35% of a million or $350K. Tell me that is fair. BTW figure out his form 6251 tax, because he owes that. Tell me that is fair after you have done it. http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f6251.pdf and http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i6251.pdf Couldn't make it any more easy for you.

If you want to discuss tax deductions and credits, then point out a line on form 1040, schedule A, form 6251 or form 1120 and talk about details. If you don't then it is fair as written in the tax code. Good starting points for you might be http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/ and http://www.irs.gov/taxstats

Stop with the vague assumptions of the things "they" have told you. "They" are wrong. Do the math and prove me a liar. If you won't even make the attempt, then you simply are another person spouting what someone else has told you to say.

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yes, they should be paying 35% on the whole million. This poor rich child you invented is no more entitled to live than the poor poor kid down the street.

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Janice

yes, they should be paying 35% on the whole million. This poor rich child you invented is no more entitled to live than the poor poor kid down the street.

That explains it, you're a collectivist. Everyone gets their ration and no more. And the NKVD is there to enforce it.

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yes, they should be paying 35% on the whole million. This poor rich child you invented is no more entitled to live than the poor poor kid down the street.

That explains it, you're a collectivist. Everyone gets their ration and no more. And the NKVD is there to enforce it.

Life should not be rationed.

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Janice