Marc, I have a theory that you get good and drunk before you post to these message boards . . . perhaps with good reason, given your bleak outlook on the world.

> > Now he has died, and I am sorry for the death of the man, but not that
> the
> > terrorist leader is gone.
>
> Don't say you are sorry for the death of the man Tom, I don't belive you.
> Altough I don't aprove terrorism, Arafat brought the Palestinian problem
> (Invasion, agression, killing of palestinians, etc) to the eyes of the world.
> Without a man like Arafat the Palestine would no longer exist, but in history
> book.

Too bad you don't believe that I am sorry for the loss of any life, and what it means to his family, friends and in this case, supporters. I can separate his person from his acts. You, on the other hand, say you don't approve of terrorism, then proceed to spout the justification for it that I don't buy.

You don't believe this was a natural death, and to support this you wonder why the media has not "asked the question of what actually killed him", but the French doctors (perhaps the French government, I don't know) and Arafat's family aren't saying what killed him, even though every US news service I listen to (NBC, CNN, NPR, and FOX) has asked that very question.

> looks like Americans
> see just one side of it. Why ? because history is always written by those
> who win a war, not by those who are oppressed. Also because no Palestinians
> own any media and/or financial power in the US.

What a cop-out. You are in France, do you not hear both sides of this from French media? Don't you have access to American news sources? This is just another lie you cite to argue for a world view that you can not support with facts. And can you claim that you have ever "seen" the other side of this or any other question regarding America?

> > I don't know which way this will turn. But I hope for peace.
>
> You surely hope for peace, an Israelian peace. Now Tom don't say I am
> attacking Americans. I am not. I am just saying what I think is true.

But your bias shines through. You don't even make sense: if this is an Israli/Palestinian conflict, then how could and "Isralian peace" not include the Palestinians? Will everyone on both sides think such a peace agreement is fair? No. Will you ever think it is fair? Apparently not.

---

Scott Peterson Convicted of Murdering Wife

> What a cop-out. You are in France, do you not hear both sides of this from
> French media? Don't you have access to American news sources? This is just
> another lie you cite to argue for a world view that you can not support with
> facts. And can you claim that you have ever "seen" the other side of
> this or any other question regarding America?

I am currently in Montreal, Canada. I am born here. Although I prefer reading
news for better information, I am watching the News on Local Radio-Canada
network news, France TV5 and FR3, American CNN, CBS, NBC, etc. I am basicaly
watching news from 3 different countries, with 3 different cultures, and manage
to take the best out of all these sources.

I have been to the US many times, Irak many times, Israel many times, Pakistan
many times, etc, I have pass the Suez and Panama canal 25 times. I have seen
Gaza, refugees in lebanon, war and hunger in Africa. Actually I've been to
arroung 150 countries, I work with a group of people from about 30 different
nations, my wife is French and we have an appartment in Paris. I consider
myself to be quite an "international" person and my views of the world are not
limited to one source. What about you ?

You did not tell my why people can't visit Europe without Fear ? I really don't
understand that. Europe is the most visited continent and you need to be there
to see it. our appartment in Paris is in Montmartre, precisely between the Moulin
Rouge (pigalle) and the Sacré-coeur Basilica. There must be about a thousands
tourrists from all over the world walking our street every day, and there is
nothing for "tourrist" on it.

What would you fear if you had to come to Europe ? D'ont worry you are
welcome and If I am there I'd take you a tour of Paris with pleasure.

> > ... and If I am there I'd take you a tour of Paris with pleasure.
>
> Moi aussi, Marc?

Avec un immense plaisir !!!

OK here's a dispatch and a question from Mr. Ignorant.
I saw this old map of Europe and Asia from the 30's and there was Palestine on it.
So I figure there was a population with a history and a culture and they were the Palestinians.
After WWII all that changed and the coastal area that was Palestine became Israel.
I'm not so dumb not to know there's been ceaseless conflict there ever since.
The Jewish people of the world evidently considered Palestine to be an illegal state.
And believe that the land was always theirs.
So they're not giving an inch.
And the Palestinians feel like they got run off their land by force by some international tribunal.
And so are constantly raising hell to get it back.
Is this analysis anywhere near correct?

> We think of terrorism as a part of the world these days. Hijackings, suicide
> bombers, hostage taking . . . we fear them, but they are a part of the world
> we inhabit. Indeed, many of these things happened before 9/11. But it was
> not always so.

INDEED North Carolina 1951...

> Is this analysis anywhere near correct?

That seem pretty correct to me.

> You did not tell my why people can't visit Europe without Fear ? I really
> don't
> understand that.
>
>

Tourism to Europe suffered after 9/11, though it seems safe enough now. Thank you for your offer to show me Paris--I spend three days there in 1998 and it is very nice (you need more than three days just to see the Louvre). I don't know people who are afraid to visit Europe now, but there was a time that I was. I cancelled a trip in the SUmmer of 2002, and spoke to many others who did the same, but my friends just came back from France and Italy, and they loved it.

There are still tourists who go to Israel, Lebanon and Egypt, but just a few week ago some Egyptian hotels in the Sinai, where Isralis were known to be vacationing, were bombed.

---

Thanks Richard-
I'll go read about the Ottoman Empire. My history sucks.

Petit Soleil-
Hindsight is always telling and that ugly photo is certainly terrorism in full bloom but remember in '51 Carolina Black folk were considered by most of the local populace as sub-human and not worthy of protection from these acts by most of the government. The US has made some progress but racism remains a recurrent and sadly almost an inherent problem in many localities.

U.S. Says Troops Occupy All of Fallujah

Good news. Now there is no more opponents to the new "democratic" regime
and election will take place peacefully.

Islamist Groups Vow to Spread Fight Across Iraq

God dam it !!! How we will ever get rid of all these sunits terrorist ?
I know ! Infiltrate them, organize a nation wide sunits conference
somewhere in Irak, and nuke the whole place. That's the only solution I think.

> Tourism to Europe suffered after 9/11, though it seems safe enough now. Thank
> you for your offer to show me Paris--I spend three days there in 1998 and it
> is very nice (you need more than three days just to see the Louvre). I don't
> know people who are afraid to visit Europe now, but there was a time that I
> was. I cancelled a trip in the SUmmer of 2002, and spoke to many others who
> did the same, but my friends just came back from France and Italy, and they
> loved it.

I rember that period in 2002 where the media in US deliberately painted
France as an "enemy" of USA. Tourrism did suffer a bit from that but it
survived, thanks to the Japanese ! I have never understood all this hanger
toward France back then.

> There are still tourists who go to Israel, Lebanon and Egypt, but just a few
> week ago some Egyptian hotels in the Sinai, where Isralis were known to be
> vacationing, were bombed.

Yea that was the only close "pacific" place left for Israely to go on
vacation. Another tragic attack, they're not going to go back there soon.

> Hindsight is always telling and that ugly photo is certainly terrorism in full
> bloom but remember in '51 Carolina Black folk were considered by most of the
> local populace as sub-human and not worthy of protection from these acts by
> most of the government. The US has made some progress but racism remains a
> recurrent and sadly almost an inherent problem in many localities.

Is the KKK still exist in it's known form ? I mean are there still holding
"reunion" burns cross and everything ? My guess is not anymore. But there
must still be some active racist organisations of some kind.

> Thanks Richard-
> I'll go read about the Ottoman Empire. My history sucks.

I also have to get into Ottoman history. It is a big subject
of discussion in Europe now because of Turkey's negotiation
to become a member of European union. There will probably
be european referendums about it. It's not going to be easy
choice to make. Turkey is an Islamist country of 70 millions
peoples. Many Europeans are against it.

> > ... Many Europeans are against it.
>
> As are many Turks.


Yes. I am personaly against it for a simple reason, Geography.
The EU is based on a lot of social principles and even if Turkey
is reforming their laws in order to enter the Union, it is still
not in Europe to me. I like Turkey a lot, Istanbul is one of my
favorite city, the Turks have a very rich history, they are modern
and friendly. I just think EU should at least agree on one thing,
the European geography. If I go to extreme, Québec and Madagascar
could become members of EU too ! It's a subject my wife and I don't
agree on. She is for having Turkey in the EU. We try to avoid the
subject...

Carl Cuseo,

Your history is correct but incomplete. The British controlled Palestine where both Jews and Arabs lived (not in peace I might add, but better than today). When WWII was over, and the British were to leave, they at first wanted to leave a Western Style democracy for both the Jews and Arabs, but neither side would have it, so the country was divided up--along the lines that were to exist on a particular date. Fighting to expand the areas controlled by either side went on almost to the date of "independence" leaving two countries.

The two countries co-existed in anger and hate, and the Arab neighbors of Palestine convinced them that military support would be given to eradicate Israel. The first such military action almost succeeded. In subsequent actions, the Isralis responded to the attacks and actually took terratory, saying it was to be a buffer zone (the Golan Heights, the Sinai, the West Bank--actually all of what was Palestine). No one would negotiate a peace with the Isralis except Egypt, so the Egyptians are the only Arab country that has had it's territory returned.

Why doesn't any one on this thread see that? Negotiate a peace agreement, that sticks, and territory being occupied by Israel will be returned. Continue to blow up Israli civilians and the occupation will not end. Every attack on Palestinian territory by the Israli Army was in response to some terrorist attack on Israel.

---