Oh, so yer psycotic--
er, psychic...

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ive been lurking the seti forums for a lot longer then some of you think. just because i only recently decided to get active on the boards does not mean i do not know what's going on behind the scenes.

you can tell who is baiting and who is genuine by the "tone" of their text, so to speak.

Again I will tell you-still based on your earlier message looking at Misfit and Gary only-you are wrong. Does Misfit push some buttons?? Umm...yeah he's never denied it but so have I in recent months. I've seen Gary post in the past as well but looking at them individually is simply wrong. Heck, anyone can push a button by saying something specific about someone--but..wait a minute...that's what you did in your first post. You are calling people out without caring to back up claims you make.

Crypto-you're a good guy--but if you're not willing to be speific about who you want to call on the carpet and aren't willing to back up those claims- don't bother. You're just stirring the pot as some would say.

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ive been lurking the seti forums for a lot longer then some of you think. just because i only recently decided to get active on the boards does not mean i do not know what's going on behind the scenes.

you can tell who is baiting and who is genuine by the "tone" of their text, so to speak.

Again I will tell you-still based on your earlier message looking at Misfit and Gary only-you are wrong. Does Misfit push some buttons?? Umm...yeah he's never denied it but so have I in recent months. I've seen Gary post in the past as well but looking at them individually is simply wrong. Heck, anyone can push a button by saying something specific about someone--but..wait a minute...that's what you did in your first post. You are calling people out without caring to back up claims you make.

Crypto-you're a good guy--but if you're not willing to be speific about who you want to call on the carpet and aren't willing to back up those claims- don't bother. You're just stirring the pot as some would say.

Any attempt at backing up claims went out with the current thread listing. tone of their text, I love it!

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me@rescam.org

how can i stir the pot when most of you guys already have both hands on the spoon.........

i just call it as i see it.

i just call it as i see it.

With tunnel vision.

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me@rescam.org

how can i stir the pot when most of you guys already have both hands on the spoon.........

i just call it as i see it.

. . . and just how did you expect this would help matters; or was that not your intent?

how can i stir the pot when most of you guys already have both hands on the spoon.........

i just call it as i see it.

. . . and just how did you expect this would help matters; or was that not your intent?

Thank you Qui-Gon...my thoughts exactly.

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how can i stir the pot when most of you guys already have both hands on the spoon.........

i just call it as i see it.

. . . and just how did you expect this would help matters; or was that not your intent?

my intent is to call some of you guys out on youre mud slinging and attempt to make you see just how slanted youre views are. the ones who are trying to create an internet feud of sorts, and trying to get certain mods booted out. trying to rattle the cage so to speak. what's the point in doing all of that? this is a project for finding et, not ruffling the feathers of the admin and mods. maybe i could even get a few of you to realise just how backwards you are taking this whole matter. how does anything you guys are trying to do benefit seti@home? it doesnt. it just makes the project look bad.

i halfway believe msattler finally understood this. and i think he understood that you guys are taking this internet feud way too far. but then he got banned for some reason. since i dont know the exact situation of his demise so i am crediting him a grain of salt in my text. honestly it's not my business what the sutation was which got hm banned. however i would like to email him yet i dont have his addy. we had talked on and off through pm, but he got canned before we finally exchanged email addy's. if any of you would care to pm me his addy i would appreciate it.

adding to that, if any of you want to talk privately shoot me a pm and ill give ya my email addy.

... i halfway believe msattler finally understood this. and i think he understood that you guys are taking this internet feud way too far. but then he got banned for some reason.

Mark may be back -- not the first time he's been banned; he's got Jesus on his side :-)

With the holidays coming, we'll all be in better moods after our significant others give us that Intel Core i7-based workstation.

Take care, CryptokiD and you buy the next round for the guys!

how can i stir the pot when most of you guys already have both hands on the spoon.........

i just call it as i see it.

. . . and just how did you expect this would help matters; or was that not your intent?

my intent is to call some of you guys out on youre mud slinging and attempt to make you see just how slanted youre views are. the ones who are trying to create an internet feud of sorts, and trying to get certain mods booted out. trying to rattle the cage so to speak. what's the point in doing all of that? this is a project for finding et, not ruffling the feathers of the admin and mods. maybe i could even get a few of you to realise just how backwards you are taking this whole matter. how does anything you guys are trying to do benefit seti@home? it doesnt. it just makes the project look bad.

Hogwash. Your own accusations, mud slinging as you call it, show you to be as "slanted" as those you have accused. And though you think it is so bad to point out the bias of certain moderators, you really don't know the history here, despite your ambiguous claim of lurking "for a lot longer then [sic] some of you think". If you really had been here as long as you suggest, you would know that some posters are treated differently than others by certain moderators, and some posters have acted badly often enough to make it clear to veteran posters why they keep being sanctioned.

i halfway believe msattler finally understood this. and i think he understood that you guys are taking this internet feud way too far. but then he got banned for some reason. since i dont know the exact situation of his demise so i am crediting him a grain of salt in my text. honestly it's not my business what the sutation was which got hm banned. however i would like to email him yet i dont have his addy. we had talked on and off through pm, but he got canned before we finally exchanged email addy's. if any of you would care to pm me his addy i would appreciate it.

adding to that, if any of you want to talk privately shoot me a pm and ill give ya my email addy.

I would advise all users against revealing any information (such as E-mail addresses) about anyone other than yourself. If admin finds out about it you may get banned or perma-banned.

my intent is to call some of you guys out on youre mud slinging and attempt to make you see just how slanted youre views are. the ones who are trying to create an internet feud of sorts, and trying to get certain mods booted out. trying to rattle the cage so to speak. what's the point in doing all of that? this is a project for finding et, not ruffling the feathers of the admin and mods. maybe i could even get a few of you to realise just how backwards you are taking this whole matter. how does anything you guys are trying to do benefit seti@home? it doesnt. it just makes the project look bad.

i halfway believe msattler finally understood this. and i think he understood that you guys are taking this internet feud way too far. but then he got banned for some reason. since i dont know the exact situation of his demise so i am crediting him a grain of salt in my text. honestly it's not my business what the sutation was which got hm banned. however i would like to email him yet i dont have his addy. we had talked on and off through pm, but he got canned before we finally exchanged email addy's. if any of you would care to pm me his addy i would appreciate it.

adding to that, if any of you want to talk privately shoot me a pm and ill give ya my email addy.

This is a load of garbage, man.

If you are concerned about benefiting the project, why did you stir it up again? You are just aggravating things and therefore this discussion-which I am sure some mods would like to see go away--will continue.

First off--if you had taken the time to read the rules left you'll see:

* Do not posts comments related to specific moderator actions. The moderators may be contacted at seti_moderators@ssl.berkeley.edu

MSattler's ban is a specific situation and discussion of people's reasons for banning isn't allowed in the forums anyways so that is unnecessary for you to bring up.

Second--As for "trying to get certain mods booted out", there's supposed to be rotation of the moderators anyways (as stated by Eric in the forums some time ago) which hasn't happened. As for myself, I walked away voluntarily due to concerns over the moderation policies and the behavior of certain mods which I will not discuss here due to the following statement on the "Additional Info" page: * Please don't discuss our moderation policy on the forums.

Feel free to comment again when you care to use capitalization and consider spelling.

Asking others to send you MSattler's private email address is questionable to me and makes me think you'd share mine just as easy. Thanks but no thanks.

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how can i stir the pot when most of you guys already have both hands on the spoon.........

i just call it as i see it.

. . . and just how did you expect this would help matters; or was that not your intent?

my intent is to call some of you guys out on youre mud slinging and attempt to make you see just how slanted youre views are. the ones who are trying to create an internet feud of sorts, and trying to get certain mods booted out. trying to rattle the cage so to speak. what's the point in doing all of that? this is a project for finding et, not ruffling the feathers of the admin and mods. maybe i could even get a few of you to realise just how backwards you are taking this whole matter. how does anything you guys are trying to do benefit seti@home? it doesnt. it just makes the project look bad.

i halfway believe msattler finally understood this. and i think he understood that you guys are taking this internet feud way too far. but then he got banned for some reason. since i dont know the exact situation of his demise so i am crediting him a grain of salt in my text. honestly it's not my business what the sutation was which got hm banned. however i would like to email him yet i dont have his addy. we had talked on and off through pm, but he got canned before we finally exchanged email addy's. if any of you would care to pm me his addy i would appreciate it.

adding to that, if any of you want to talk privately shoot me a pm and ill give ya my email addy.

I've heard of being out in left field, but you are playing a different game in a different ball park than than I am.

I've flat out told you it isn't against a person. Why you refuse to believe that ... What do I have to do, give you the case number? As I've said before and will say again my issue is privacy.

You seem to think I'm out after someone. BS. I don't have thousands of PM's from aggrieved people telling me that so and so is a ... I don't know where you dream up this stuff.

Since you seem intent on forcing me to tell you what I think about the mods I'll give you the big shocking story in all its gory detail. I've heard rumors and innuendo that the moderators are human and are in possession of human failings. I know this is the most shocking statement made in the history of mankind. I'm sure I'll be taking a long vacation for saying it.

You asked about benefits. If every user was sure the moderation system was fair an un-biased, that no indivdual could corrupt the system by any method for any means, that would be a benefit. There you have it!

Perhaps its solution isn't a Seti problem as much as a BOINC problem. I would think it perhaps better under the UC Computer Sicences Department rather than the Astronomy Department. The two are rather cross polinated however. Might need to bring in Engineering for a human factors study. Might make for a good thesis. Bet it might even make money as a patent.

Now you probably want to know how I would design a moderation system. I'd certainly take the ideas of http://boinc.berkeley.edu/trac/wiki/BossaIntro and apply them. The human factor that seems to need the biggest effort to neutralize is popularity, charisma or politics. A significant amount of thought and effort should go into the design of the system so that can't be part of the decision making process of each individual moderator. QC/QA needs to be put into place so that this factor can be monitored, and that means an admin or owner actually reading the reports and acting on them in a timely fashion.

Now as to the functions, any mod should have the ability to act alone. However acting alone becomes an issue that needs to be carefully reviewed. The rest of the moderators need to be automatically polled when it is used. They however must not know that another moderator has acted or more importantly who that moderator is. This "automatic appeal" needs to look like an ordinary user complaint to them. If they go look to see if the post has been hidden they see the post as if it hasn't been hidden and the fact they went looking for it shows up on the management report. As to this appeal, same three buttons as an ordinary complaint. Egregious enough to act immediately alone, yes it should be hidden but not instantly, no it can stand as is. On the management report if the rest of the mods pick to hide instantly then the first one has acted correctly. If they collectively vote to hide but not instantly that should print bold on the report. If they collectively vote to let it stand, the bell on the admin's terminal should start ringing. Hopefully he can keep it quieter than a fire alarm. :) Vote stats on that report. Mods who spend most of the time on the other side of the collective vote should get large print bold face.

You notice I didn't have an undecided button or a lets discuss this button. It is this discussion that can cause favoritism. If you have a charismatic individual as a mod, everyone else may wait until that person pipes up to decide. That is what needs to be taken out of the process. Besides, why are the mods discussing it? The mods should only discuss the rules with the admin/owner. What another mod thinks about a rule has no consequence, the rules are the admin/owner's territory. Admin/owners rules, his brain is the one that needs to be picked. Perhaps http://boinc.berkeley.edu/trac/wiki/BoltIntro can be applied to that brain picking.

Now as to the report form, right now we get an "other" box to fill out. I think in addition to that a list of the rules with check boxes. The other becomes an other/additional information box. That way information about some specific cultural issue or obscure fact can be brought to the attention of the mods voting. Most of the time it shouldn't be necessary. The others need to print on the management report so if there are frequent similar ones they can be added to the check boxes or explained as non-violations in the rules statement. BTW this form is the identical one a mod must fill out to act, so it can't be told apart from a user initiated complaint. When (enough) mods vote that closes the ticket at the mod level, when the admin reviews it that closes the ticket at the admin level.

Another important factor is a mod being able to act no matter who the party being acted upon is. Be that another mod or an ordinary user. All applications of the iron fist must be even without reguard to standing. Justice must be blind. Justice delayed isn't Justice either.

It isn't about the people, it is about the process and the management of employees. It is about applying NASA Apollo project level QC/QA to the process and management. I love the project enough to want the very best. Occasionally singed tail is the expedient way to get motion started.

Now kid, go off and do your survey of the mods. Ask each of them if they think I want any of them personally fired. Ask them if they think the system could be better. Report back here or post your recipe for crow in the cooks thread.

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Here's a good expression of a concern...just posted today.

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=56080&nowrap=true#944922

In response to:

Suppose many of us make a donation to Seti@home, would you use it to setup a backup system so you can do maintenance on the primary systems AND/OR use the backup systems to get the data from the archives? Use the backup systems while the primary is down for maintenance so that we won't have to wait for WU's.

Pappa said:

While I do not oppose Donations to Seti.

Wow--that is an absolutely underwhelming statement in response to a great idea and a proposal for a generous offer for donation purposes.

When I was the person in charge of donations, my position towards was donations was to be as gracious, positive and encouraging as possible. I'd go so far as to personally email (and call if need be) Matt to get Green Star issues worked out--with a great deal of success. The statement above is almost discouraging (to me).

While Pappa isn't in charge of donations (Uli is--for cash at least), I'd expect any moderator or person officially involved to be much more encouraging of people who wish to come up with a plan to help the program.

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Thats an honor.

I gather you like to play politics and favorites.

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im going to ignore most of what was said and hit on only a few key points because quite frankly, you guys type too much. i literally do not have the motivation to reply to every little thing that was said. it was an amusing read, and i would like too. i literally dont have the motivation some of you do to nit pick through every detail and throw out a rebuttal. so here are my (very) few key points.

some (or most) of you had brought up supposed privacy concerns.

well hello! internet 101 here. do not voluntarily post info on a public forum if you are scared about privacy. most of you guys are smart enough to know you do not enter info into any website forms, do not register on forums and enter into discussions on forums, and do not give youre CC out anyone for any reason. yet most of you guys hide behind this fake privacy concern blanket. it's a convent excuse to complain and moan about things and i got to hand it to you it was not a bad idea. however i can solve you're privacy concerns for you real quick.

ready? do not reply to this message. do not reply to any other messages on seti forum or any other forum ever aagin if privacy is such a huge issue for you. thing is, i know none of you will take my advice because you don't actually have any privacy concerns beyond anyone else's on the internet. its just an excuse you use to complain.
in all seriousness i don't want any of you to quit the forums. but i would like you to step out from behind this security blanket cloak and some into reality.

another one that caught my attention. someone had mentioned my poor typing skills concerning capitalization of letters, punctuation, spelling, etc. this isn't a formal website. i am not looking for employment here. i will use relaxed typing as i see fit and it you don't like it, that's just too bad. i'm not going to change my typing style just because blurf doesn't like it, or misfit put up a picture of text which was probably meant to annoy or antagonize me (btw thats against rule #4 misfit).

im also not going to cry to the mods because of minor rule violations. we can sit here forever trying to pick each others posts apart for potential rule violations sort of like blurf did to me, but whats the point. (and i know that's hypocritical for me to say since i just did that to misfit.) however i needed to use misfit as an example just as blurf did to me.

in the end you guys are going round and round, rehashing the same things. you know what that's called "stirring the pot"...

some (or most) of you had brought up supposed privacy concerns.

Gosh, aren't you the one who is begging for a private e-mail address? Maybe you don't live where you got the mandated by California law message from SETI about your personally identifying information being leaked/stolen, or maybe yours wasn't one that was. Maybe you don't have the foggiest what is really going on as everyone has been telling you.

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im going to ignore most of what was said and hit on only a few key points because quite frankly, you guys type too much. i literally do not have the motivation to reply to every little thing that was said. it was an amusing read, and i would like too. i literally dont have the motivation some of you do to nit pick through every detail and throw out a rebuttal. so here are my (very) few key points.

Really..you did it before but won't do it now. Actually I didn't pick every single point--I responded to a few specific items.

But if you're not going to reply to any of my points, then I'll gladly return the favor.

It's not a discussion when only one person participates.

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This has turned into a flame fest.

No further flames please.

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BOINC WIKI

This has turned into a flame fest.

No further flames please.

=================================

Who farted--
got a lighter???...

================================

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