Arecibo - No funds to continue


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Profile BigWaveSurfer
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Message 940527 - Posted: 16 Oct 2009, 21:14:35 UTC

..."as things stand now there'll be no more money to fund Arecibo's unique radar capability after fiscal year 2010."...

http://www.skyandtelescope.com/community/skyblog/newsblog/64020222.html

My question, if Arecibo shuts down what does that do for Seti?!?! Do they have plans to somehow move equipment to another site if needed, or are we all crunching as much as we can before it closes? I looked for a good 'board' to post this in, but none really seemed to fit, and I think this does deserve attention and answers. Thank you!
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Message 940529 - Posted: 16 Oct 2009, 21:22:48 UTC - in response to Message 940527.

..."as things stand now there'll be no more money to fund Arecibo's unique radar capability after fiscal year 2010."...

http://www.skyandtelescope.com/community/skyblog/newsblog/64020222.html

My question, if Arecibo shuts down what does that do for Seti?!?! Do they have plans to somehow move equipment to another site if needed, or are we all crunching as much as we can before it closes? I looked for a good 'board' to post this in, but none really seemed to fit, and I think this does deserve attention and answers. Thank you!

This is not good news, but it's talking about the Planetary Radar and we don't get recordings during planetary radar ops. (because they're transmitting pulses).
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Message 940546 - Posted: 16 Oct 2009, 21:50:47 UTC - in response to Message 940534.
Last modified: 16 Oct 2009, 22:10:43 UTC

Perhaps this is more for the "Science" forum rather than "Crunching," but we're all here already. Sooner or later, we'll probably lose Arecibo, which makes squeezing the data stream sponge while we can important (plus for economies of return).

Does anyone know what the intersection of S@H is with "Serendip 5" ? Is it zero? Does our present data even come through that box?

I thought that S5 had the ability to open up the search range to 3ghz (instead of the cherry picked 2.5 mhz around hydrogen), which even with filtering would provide a magnitude increase in WU's generated per evening of recorded observation. Are the existing S@H client apps & server backend ready to split & process other ranges, or is a re-write involved?

If Arecibo shutters, could Serendip 5 be moved to another facility, or are these things such custom jobbers that they're unadaptable elsewhere?

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Message 940548 - Posted: 16 Oct 2009, 21:57:02 UTC - in response to Message 940534.

Could the array at NRAO be used? It is a recieve only in pretty noise free area. The effective dish can be quite a bit larger as well.
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Message 940689 - Posted: 17 Oct 2009, 6:24:47 UTC

Perhaps we should start using ATA =)
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Message 940704 - Posted: 17 Oct 2009, 7:02:51 UTC - in response to Message 940689.

Perhaps we should start using ATA =)


I was thinking that was the the future plan because some SETI staff members had recently visited the Allen Telescope Array.

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Message 940711 - Posted: 17 Oct 2009, 7:20:35 UTC - in response to Message 940548.

Could the array at NRAO be used? It is a recieve only in pretty noise free area. The effective dish can be quite a bit larger as well.


With its VLBA system, it would be great place to catch ET signal don't you think =)


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Message 940741 - Posted: 17 Oct 2009, 10:56:31 UTC

I don't think we shall lose Arecibo. Its planetary radar capabilities are essential for watching asteroids and other Near Earth Objects, ass stressed in a recent report by the US National Research Council.
Tullio
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Message 940769 - Posted: 17 Oct 2009, 13:33:25 UTC - in response to Message 940741.
Last modified: 17 Oct 2009, 13:34:01 UTC

I don't think we shall lose Arecibo. Its planetary radar capabilities are essential for watching asteroids and other Near Earth Objects, ass stressed in a recent report by the US National Research Council.

I agree.

However, there is still the very silly bureaucratics battle going on between the NASA and the NSF about who pays for Arecibo. So far, while the bureaucrats spill a little coffee over breakfast, Arecibo is severely disrupted with cuts and uncertainty and a Sword of Damocles hanging over them. Some that had lived and worked there with many years of specialist experience are now no longer there. Even the site canteen now runs reduced hours...

So how long to get Arecibo's continued existence secured?

Very silly and not good for encouraging people into science. I walked away from paid research over such silliness of working month-by-month with no promise of anything next.

Keep searchin',
Martin
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Message 940774 - Posted: 17 Oct 2009, 13:52:37 UTC - in response to Message 940769.
Last modified: 17 Oct 2009, 13:53:59 UTC

You are not alone. Both I and my daughter, with degree in physics, had to abandon research in order to make a living and marry. Sometimes I regret that decision and I try at least to keep in touch with what is going on. As Emilio Segre', one of the Fermi group, said once, to do research you need "un piccolo patrimonio". Cheers.
Tullio
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Message 940791 - Posted: 17 Oct 2009, 14:45:23 UTC
Last modified: 17 Oct 2009, 14:48:48 UTC

This is sad at any angle you look at it.. AND so typical of how the government does things. Why keep a perfectly working and pruducing radio telescope funded when you can spend 100 times the amount of money doing other experiments. How much has the USA spent on LCH? How much will they spend on health for illigal aliens in the next year? How much will they lose in froud in medicare. The Govs on estimates is they lose around 50 billion a year in bogas medicare claims.

To rebuild this dish which is nearly 1/4 mile in diameter in todays dollars would have to be close to a billion if not more. Like I said, why keep it when you can build a new one at 100 times the cost?
This all reminds me of the King Dome in Seattle, Washington. There was NOTHING wrong with the stadium.. The county had just spent 10s of millions putting a new roof on and a new celling inside. And for what? A couple years later, they blew the thing up and replaced it with a 650 million dollar OPEN AIR stadium in an area that is prone to lots of rain. The King Dome was closed and for a good reason.. the weather in Seattle can be un-friendly at times.
I think its time to start writing letters of protest to the Gov and any local state Reps.
There has been a forum at My team's site with links to where to get and where to send letters of protest.
DO IT NOW!
Get the docs you need here!
Mail them and do it as many times as you can! The only way the funding will continue is, if enough people PROTEST shutting it down!.

UPDATE: That Senate Bill S. 2862 it is is probably not relavent anymore.
Some one needs to get on the ball and re-write the auto-gen'ed letter contents!
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Message 941025 - Posted: 18 Oct 2009, 6:06:10 UTC - in response to Message 940741.
Last modified: 18 Oct 2009, 6:06:55 UTC

I don't think we shall lose Arecibo. Its planetary radar capabilities are essential for watching asteroids and other Near Earth Objects, ass stressed in a recent report by the US National Research Council.
Tullio

I echo this statement, its funding may be tuned down in one way or another, but I'll bet it'll still be running in a decade or two from now, in some shape or form. Not betting on SETI@home though...
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Message 941029 - Posted: 18 Oct 2009, 6:18:50 UTC - in response to Message 940769.

I suggest a new project - STI - Search for Terrestrial Intelligence.
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Message 941086 - Posted: 18 Oct 2009, 12:38:49 UTC - in response to Message 941029.

I suggest a new project - STI - Search for Terrestrial Intelligence.

Best of luck with that especialy if targeted at Political Life Forms.
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Message 941131 - Posted: 18 Oct 2009, 16:32:46 UTC

I am not a Us citizen and i am thousands of miles away, i dont know if their other projects that the US govt is doing in Arecibo or thats it. If thats it i am well aware of many countries around the world who are starting their own projects in space and do not have serious equipment yet and would be more than willing to take up Arecibo for other purposes ,including astronomy countries like india ,china ,germany etc They question is ,can the US govt surrender the facility or they just want it torn apart or is their something i am not aware like for example ,its only seti that will no longer be able to do its research will other projects will continue ?
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Message 941141 - Posted: 18 Oct 2009, 17:28:19 UTC - in response to Message 941029.
Last modified: 18 Oct 2009, 17:34:59 UTC

I suggest a new project - STI - Search for Terrestrial Intelligence.

No DOUBT! Dont think you will find much in congress tho :)
Short story of how things work with the USA's gov.

1. Wait and see.. This is the most popular way to deal with things.
For years others and myself pushed for a street light at this very bad intersection. You could not see to make right hand turns do to traffic waiting to turn left. Me and others and almost gotten hit many times trying to get out in to traffic. Well.. it wasnt until a mother and her three kids was crushed by a truck that they finally put an light at that intersection :(

2. Dont worry about what the fundings for.. Worry about if the application is correct. There are adds on TV.. maybe you have seen them.. A guy with suit on that's covered with QUESTION MARKS? For a (not so)small charge, you can buy this book and learn how to file for a grant. Like I said, its not what the grant is for, its if the paper work is done correctly. The people that award these grants dont care what the grants for.

On a the lighter side. If Arecibo's funding runs dry, there is a good chance that someone like Paul Allen will step up. I have a hard time believing that anyone that has interest in radio telescopes is going to let such a huge tool turn to a jungle salad bowl. I think it would be worth every dollar spent to re-tool the dish and make updates to the entire thing rather then let whats there go to waste. I have heard conflicting news on the Hubble Telescope. Is it or IS it NOT going to be retired? This is another tool that needs to be maintained rather then replaced. If there are any doubts on this, look at the deep field images! What was thought to be void space was hardly 'VOID'!!

Also on the more serious side. The signals that have been collected can always be recrunched. Having tured the sensitivity of the software UP to slow down cunching shows us that there is probably signals that were missed because the software wasnt capable of detecting it. I am a supporter of recrunching what signals have already been gathered.
There is also the ATA.. No sure if they need 'our' help with the super-computers that Allen as had built just for this purpose.
IF you serious about crunching.. which you are if you post in here, you need to get the DOCs from the link in my other post above and start sending as many copies to everyone you can think of! I sent 3 sets out last year and will do this again. The Docs need to be updated or re-wrote. I took the letter and added my own 'VOICE' to them.. I highly recommend all doing the same. Why and what Arecibo means to you! You have to remmeber there is a lot more that comes from this scope then just ET searching!

I need to get to work on Boinc.NET while I have a little time here to work on it.
IF I ever get these issues with the new features worked out, Im releasing the first general public version and then Asking that Dr. Anderson add it to the Boinc Addon section at the Boinc Site. Dr. Anderson has been great at working with me on Boinc.NET as Nicolas has (Thanks Guys!)

My post has strayed all over the topic so I shall shut my fingers off now :)
May you find happiness in today and all of tomorrow!
--Mike
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Message 941344 - Posted: 19 Oct 2009, 14:34:55 UTC

Master Mike...have you found the way how we 'the non US residence' can help Arecibo's survival?
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Message 941575 - Posted: 20 Oct 2009, 15:59:48 UTC - in response to Message 941025.

I don't think we shall lose Arecibo. Its planetary radar capabilities are essential for watching asteroids and other Near Earth Objects, ass stressed in a recent report by the US National Research Council.
Tullio

I echo this statement, its funding may be tuned down in one way or another, but I'll bet it'll still be running in a decade or two from now, in some shape or form. Not betting on SETI@home though...


I guess this needs to be echoed again. The Arecibo Observatory won't be shut down, they just don't want to pay for it's radar function i.e. actively sending radar waves to objects in our solar system and record what is reflected. That will have no effect on SETI@home. I'm pretty optimistic about that since it was (and I bet still is) hard for a scientist only to get a half a day of telescope time in a year. I can't imagine that anyone would shut down a scientific instrument with such a high demand. In case US completely discontinues funding someone else will be found who does.

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Message 943044 - Posted: 27 Oct 2009, 2:31:51 UTC - in response to Message 941029.

I suggest a new project - STI - Search for Terrestrial Intelligence.

Cetaceans > Humanoids

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