...

However. I think that there are certain people who should never again become moderators. Not because I think that they were particularly bad at the job (I only had personal issues with one of them) but because to do so would cause a mass exodus from the project.

Admittedly, being friends with many of those whose contracts were cancelled (and ‘real-world’ friends with a couple of them) makes my opinion somewhat less than objective in this regard.

:)

I'm sorry, kenzieB, but it amuses me to see you use words as "mass exodus" because of a few moderators in this sense, because how many people does it take to emigrate to create a mass exodus? 10% of the total number of participants here? 20%? 40%? 50%? Or how about 75%? Or maybe even 90% if we really should call it a mass exodus? There are at the moment 856,112 participants in this project, so a 10% emigration of them would be 85,611 participant. Is it likely that 85,000+ participants would leave because of a few moderators? Or 770,000. To be realistic I don't think so.

I think, without of course being inside your head and knowing your thoughts, that you mean about 30+ participants, or maybe 50 as a maximum. That is hardly a "mass exodus", that is a group of disgruntled participants who are unhappy about that they couldn't have it their way. Please correct me if I am wrong about this.

It's funny to see how words are being used as generalizations when they hardly cover what the case is really about.

I don't think anyone can reasonably be subjected to that sort of hate for that long and stay sane.

...

However. I think that there are certain people who should never again become moderators. Not because I think that they were particularly bad at the job (I only had personal issues with one of them) but because to do so would cause a mass exodus from the project.

Admittedly, being friends with many of those whose contracts were cancelled (and ‘real-world’ friends with a couple of them) makes my opinion somewhat less than objective in this regard.

:)

I'm sorry, kenzieB, but it amuses me to see you use words as "mass exodus" because of a few moderators in this sense, because how many people does it take to emigrate to create a mass exodus? 10% of the total number of participants here? 20%? 40%? 50%? Or how about 75%? Or maybe even 90% if we really should call it a mass exodus? There are at the moment 856,112 participants in this project, so a 10% emigration of them would be 85,611 participant. Is it likely that 85,000+ participants would leave because of a few moderators? Or 770,000. To be realistic I don't think so.

I think, without of course being inside your head and knowing your thoughts, that you mean about 30+ participants, or maybe 50 as a maximum. That is hardly a "mass exodus", that is a group of disgruntled participants who are unhappy about that they couldn't have it their way. Please correct me if I am wrong about this.

It's funny to see how words are being used as generalizations when they hardly cover what the case is really about.

(and, after all, surely, we all want what is best for the project, eh?)

(and, after all, surely, we all want what is best for the project, eh?)

And there is the problem. There is more than one group who think they know what is best for the project and want to enforce their idea(s) on to us.

One group (for better or worse) was discovered and has had some members blocked/banned etc.

But there are still other groups (some with more power and influence than others).

I think it was you Kenzie that asked the question about what would someone in the future think of us if the looked back in time at these forums/boards. And I still remember my answers. And it hasn't changed.

(and, after all, surely, we all want what is best for the project, eh?)

And there is the problem. There is more than one group who think they know what is best for the project and want to enforce their idea(s) on to us.

One group (for better or worse) was discovered and has had some members blocked/banned etc.

But there are still other groups (some with more power and influence than others).

I think it was you Kenzie that asked the question about what would someone in the future think of us if the looked back in time at these forums/boards. And I still remember my answers. And it hasn't changed.

I remember your answer (I looked up that thread earlier and cherish your reply) and that long forgot thread contains it’s own clues to my own personal issues hereabouts, eh?

But to the larger issue: In any bureaucracy there will be power blocs seeking the favour of the king. The secret to keeping the whole shebang rolling along is to ensure a balance between the blocs. Lesson one in the world of realpolitik, my friend.

...

However. I think that there are certain people who should never again become moderators. Not because I think that they were particularly bad at the job (I only had personal issues with one of them) but because to do so would cause a mass exodus from the project.

Admittedly, being friends with many of those whose contracts were cancelled (and ‘real-world’ friends with a couple of them) makes my opinion somewhat less than objective in this regard.

:)

I'm sorry, kenzieB, but it amuses me to see you use words as "mass exodus" because of a few moderators in this sense, because how many people does it take to emigrate to create a mass exodus? 10% of the total number of participants here? 20%? 40%? 50%? Or how about 75%? Or maybe even 90% if we really should call it a mass exodus? There are at the moment 856,112 participants in this project, so a 10% emigration of them would be 85,611 participant. Is it likely that 85,000+ participants would leave because of a few moderators? Or 770,000. To be realistic I don't think so.

I think, without of course being inside your head and knowing your thoughts, that you mean about 30+ participants, or maybe 50 as a maximum. That is hardly a "mass exodus", that is a group of disgruntled participants who are unhappy about that they couldn't have it their way. Please correct me if I am wrong about this.

It's funny to see how words are being used as generalizations when they hardly cover what the case is really about.

For the record, I wasn’t referring to you (or even Misfit) when I mentioned having personal issues with one particular former mod.

Also, I also stated that I am hardly objective in this matter (which is why I refrained from posting until now.)

I presume that you read the various alternate forums that had been set up and noted that I was, at one time, considered for membership in the 30. I honestly cannot say if I would have joined if offered. Likewise, I cannot say that I would not have looked at the leaked information. But I am a human being and make my own ethical decisions about things as they are presented to me and try to avoid ‘what-if’s”

Perhaps my choice of words “mass exodus” was a bit extreme. But some would leave. And that itself would incur a certain amount of negative publicity which, frankly, the project can ill afford.

On a personal level, I have no ill will towards you (a view that has caused some distain and distrust towards me among my other friends, I might add) because you always treated me well when I was here a year ago. Indeed, you helped me over more than a few of the technical hurdles. (Likely you do not remember, as that was a long time ago, but I remember.)

But I still think that if you, Misfit or Qui Gon are ever again made moderators, it will not be in the best interests of the project (and, after all, surely, we all want what is best for the project, eh?)

"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me

For the record, I wasn’t referring to you (or even Misfit) when I mentioned having personal issues with one particular former mod.

But I still think that if you, Misfit or Qui Gon are ever again made moderators, it will not be in the best interests of the project (and, after all, surely, we all want what is best for the project, eh?)

I would have been de-modded faster than you can say the word "de-mod"!

If my understanding of the text and subsequent events is correct, would you say it would be fair to say that people were not given "an opportunity to step forward and lay out their position" [edit]unless they thought they received the PM in error[/edit]?

...

However. I think that there are certain people who should never again become moderators. Not because I think that they were particularly bad at the job (I only had personal issues with one of them) but because to do so would cause a mass exodus from the project.

Admittedly, being friends with many of those whose contracts were cancelled (and ‘real-world’ friends with a couple of them) makes my opinion somewhat less than objective in this regard.

:)

I'm sorry, kenzieB, but it amuses me to see you use words as "mass exodus" because of a few moderators in this sense, because how many people does it take to emigrate to create a mass exodus? 10% of the total number of participants here? 20%? 40%? 50%? Or how about 75%? Or maybe even 90% if we really should call it a mass exodus? There are at the moment 856,112 participants in this project, so a 10% emigration of them would be 85,611 participant. Is it likely that 85,000+ participants would leave because of a few moderators? Or 770,000. To be realistic I don't think so.

I think, without of course being inside your head and knowing your thoughts, that you mean about 30+ participants, or maybe 50 as a maximum. That is hardly a "mass exodus", that is a group of disgruntled participants who are unhappy about that they couldn't have it their way. Please correct me if I am wrong about this.

It's funny to see how words are being used as generalizations when they hardly cover what the case is really about.

For the record, I wasn’t referring to you (or even Misfit) when I mentioned having personal issues with one particular former mod.

Also, I also stated that I am hardly objective in this matter (which is why I refrained from posting until now.)

I presume that you read the various alternate forums that had been set up and noted that I was, at one time, considered for membership in the 30. I honestly cannot say if I would have joined if offered. Likewise, I cannot say that I would not have looked at the leaked information. But I am a human being and make my own ethical decisions about things as they are presented to me and try to avoid ‘what-if’s”

Perhaps my choice of words “mass exodus” was a bit extreme. But some would leave. And that itself would incur a certain amount of negative publicity which, frankly, the project can ill afford.

On a personal level, I have no ill will towards you (a view that has caused some distain and distrust towards me among my other friends, I might add) because you always treated me well when I was here a year ago. Indeed, you helped me over more than a few of the technical hurdles. (Likely you do not remember, as that was a long time ago, but I remember.)

But I still think that if you, Misfit or Qui Gon are ever again made moderators, it will not be in the best interests of the project (and, after all, surely, we all want what is best for the project, eh?)

I'm happy that I have been able to help you where I could. I only remember one occasion, and then you asked and I answered. No big deal, I always reply when people ask me in a nice and polite way. Which you did. :-)

Yes, this is your very personal and subjective opinion, that Misfit, Qui-Gon, and I never should be appointed as moderators again. Feel free to raise your concerns to the admins in charge. If he wants me back as moderator and offers me the task, I have announced to him that I will be ready for that again. If I am not asked again, I don't care, I am not a power monger. Whatever Qui-Gon's and Misfit's stance is on this, that is up to them. But let me remind you about that Misfit and I resigned ourselves in the first rotation, and Qui-Gon was chosen out to leave in a later rotation, none of us have been asked to leave the mod crew because we did bad as moderators. Back when those members of the 30 who were moderators tried to impeach me as moderator and voted to have me fired, the vote failed. And that vote was not started because I had done wrong as moderator, it was started of personal reasons as a result of a vendetta against me among those who later resigned because they lost their vote. If someone could point a finger at my moderation, if I had abused my position, or have done bad in any ways, I would have been de-modded faster than you can say the word "de-mod"! I don't have any special position to protect me! If I really had abused my position as moderator, do you think the 30 would hesitate one second with publishing this? I doubt it! They had full access to every one of my moderations and comments, if I had abused it, don't you think they would publish it somewhere, even on their personal websites which they use for trashing me. But there are no evidence of such abuse. Why? Because they don't have any! Because I haven't abused my position!

I also know of participants and potential money donors who have left this project because of what they have seen of the behavior that group of people, the 30, including their friends, have shown on these boards. They also have left because they didn't want to be associated with a project where that kind of behavior could happen with that little consequence it had on those who caused that much trouble. So I can't really say what have caused the most harm for the project, that a group of people who would go to that length of disruptive behavior have now been terminated from the project because of a serious breach of privacy and trust, or that good people, potential money donors, who came to have fun have left because they didn't want to be associated with a project where that kind of disruptions could take place on the boards. We can only guess about that, can't we?

But let me remind you about that Misfit and I resigned ourselves in the first rotation, and Qui-Gon was chosen out to leave in a later rotation, none of us have been asked to leave the mod crew because we did bad as moderators.

Back when those members of the 30 who were moderators tried to impeach me as moderator and voted to have me fired, the vote failed. And that vote was not started because I had done wrong as moderator, it was started of personal reasons as a result of a vendetta against me among those who later resigned because they lost their vote.

If someone could point a finger at my moderation, if I had abused my position, or have done bad in any ways, I would have been de-modded faster than you can say the word "de-mod"! I don't have any special position to protect me!

If I really had abused my position as moderator, do you think the 30 would hesitate one second with publishing this? I doubt it! They had full access to every one of my moderations and comments, if I had abused it, don't you think they would publish it somewhere, even on their personal websites which they use for trashing me. But there are no evidence of such abuse. Why? Because they don't have any! Because I haven't abused my position!

I also know of participants and potential money donors who have left this project because of what they have seen of the behavior that group of people, the 30, including their friends, have shown on these boards. They also have left because they didn't want to be associated with a project where that kind of behavior could happen with that little consequence it had on those who caused that much trouble. So I can't really say what have caused the most harm for the project, that a group of people who would go to that length of disruptive behavior have now been terminated from the project because of a serious breach of privacy and trust, or that good people, potential money donors, who came to have fun have left because they didn't want to be associated with a project where that kind of disruptions could take place on the boards. We can only guess about that, can't we?

Perhaps everyone involved, however remotely, should have had their contracts terminated.

Then the rest of us would not have to see this argument going on and on and on and on and on.

Perhaps everyone involved, however remotely, should have had their contracts terminated.

Then the rest of us would not have to see this argument going on and on and on and on and on.

"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me

... not have to see this argument going on and on and on and on and on.

Perhaps everyone involved, however remotely, should have had their contracts terminated.

Then the rest of us would not have to see this argument going on and on and on and on and on.

You don't have to actually read this thread, you can stay away from it.

It is important for those of us who are involved, however remotely.

My second comment...

... not have to see this argument going on and on and on and on and on.

We should all move onto better things, better discussions, and for a better future. Both on these forums and everywhere else.

I think we've learnt more than enough from this particular past. We ourselves are the problem if we're burning through the moderators...

Part of being "adult" is being able to move usefully forwards, whether that includes making amends, learning, or even just "turning the other cheek".

Sorry, this continuing cycle of regurgitation long ago was squirming badly.

Please take a holiday and return refreshed and enlightened?

Respectfully,
Martin