I am totally against asking science teachers to teach something that is not science and not scientific. It does not belong in the science lab and i would always categorically refuse to teach it. I don't teach nonsense in my classes.

I think we should have the gov't mandate that you teach it. Upon threat of fines, punishment, and eventual imprisonment.

You WILL teach what the gov't imposes on you, no matter what it is, because they told you to. What you are totally against is of no concern. What you think belongs or not is of no concern. Categorically refuse and the force of law will be brought to bear on you.

Someone else decided for you, and YOU. WILL. OBEY. THEM.

You seem to love when stuff is mandated by law against others, so you should be excited to have it mandated against you, right?

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Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

I am totally against asking science teachers to teach something that is not science and not scientific. It does not belong in the science lab and i would always categorically refuse to teach it. I don't teach nonsense in my classes.

I think we should have the gov't mandate that you teach it. Upon threat of fines, punishment, and eventual imprisonment.

You WILL teach what the gov't imposes on you, no matter what it is, because they told you to. What you are totally against is of no concern. What you think belongs or not is of no concern. Categorically refuse and the force of law will be brought to bear on you.

Someone else decided for you, and YOU. WILL. OBEY. THEM.

You seem to love when stuff is mandated by law against others, so you should be excited to have it mandated against you, right?

or then you can live in country which is based on democracy and free will, and nobody would force you to teach pseudo science, government would be wise enough
not to believe them, and if accidentally that would happen, you chance government.
welcome to free world which cares about citizens, and health-care, schools,
pensions are paid by tax money, and still we don´t by too much taxes, you pay them too, but what you get, lousy health-care.

us pay two times more for health-care and is last on quality

sometimes it is best to use government to do things they are elected to do.

I would hope that the science teaching is good enough to let the kids see for themselves the factual flaws in the ID (pseudo-religious) claims.

Like the factual flaws *I* seem to find everywhere I look? ;)

(My religion only has one flaw, and it isn't even a flaw, it's a broken cross reference.)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

Categorically refuse and the force of law will be brought to bear on you.

No Doubt!

Someone else decided for you, and YOU. WILL. OBEY. THEM.

Fat chance! ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

I am totally against asking science teachers to teach something that is not science and not scientific. It does not belong in the science lab and i would always categorically refuse to teach it. I don't teach nonsense in my classes.

I think we should have the gov't mandate that you teach it. Upon threat of fines, punishment, and eventual imprisonment.

You WILL teach what the gov't imposes on you, no matter what it is, because they told you to. What you are totally against is of no concern. What you think belongs or not is of no concern. Categorically refuse and the force of law will be brought to bear on you.

Someone else decided for you, and YOU. WILL. OBEY. THEM.

You seem to love when stuff is mandated by law against others, so you should be excited to have it mandated against you, right?

Steady on Rush, you're beginning to sound as though all Gov't is wrong, which I'm not sure is what you intend (aren't there 'rational' purposes for Gov't?).

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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

Steady on Rush, you're beginning to sound as though all Gov't is wrong, which I'm not sure is what you intend (aren't there 'rational' purposes for Gov't?).

Of course there are rational purposes for gov't. I'm just illustrating a point.

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Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

I am guessing from the responses in this thread that in US schools there is no religious education about other faiths? Here it is a core subject and pupils are required to learn about all faiths..not just their own. It helps reduce intolerance and ignorance of other cultures and religions. I can't see how that is a bad thing at all.

We're primitive in the USA when it comes to this kind of education. Rush would have you believe otherwise for the sake of arguing.



.

Do Americans not learn history of other countries either? Or science discovered in other countries? I simply can't understand how learning about other cultures and beliefs is not considered important.

How ironic, then, that you would absolutely refuse to teach anything other than what you think is correct. You don't think ID is " important " so you wouldn't teach it....the teachers and school systems here don't think it's important to teach the culture of Lhasa Apso. Bet you'd be willing to MAKE them teach it though.

I'm a science teacher. Why would you expect me to teach ID? I wouldn't expect to be asked to teach French or Cooking either.

Let the science teachers teach science and the RS teachers teach ID. If you actually read what I said earlier you would have seen that I quite clearly said that.

..and why shouldn't people learn about Tibet? I don't get your point.

You fail to see my point?? Hmmm....shocker.

My point is....you say you shouldn't have to teach ID because you are a science teacher. Makes ID unimportant, correct?

Well...most of the people that make up the school districts in the area I live in really couldn't give a rat's hindquarters about Tibet...Or India...Or Thailand...

Do you get my point now?? Those places aren't high on the importance list for people who live where I do.

Just because you think they are important, doesn't mean a bunch of country people around here are going to care one whit about them. Of course, you probably want our fabulously efficient government to [/i]make[/i] the schools teach that stuff, right?

People want the government to force us to do more and more....but then sit around and bitch about how terrible the government is.

I don't often agree with Rush, but on this one....I am right there with him.

---

Air Cold, the blade stops;
from silent stone,
Death is preordained

Calm Chaos Forums : Everyone Welcome

You fail to see my point?? Hmmm....shocker.

Not really..as you haven't actually said anything that makes sense as a reply to anything I have said.

My point is....you say you shouldn't have to teach ID because you are a science teacher. Makes ID unimportant, correct?

Your logic does not follow.

I should not have to teach ID as I am a science teacher, because ID is NOT science. Do you understand now? I teach science. I don't teach religion..or any other mumbo jumbo. I teach science.

Well...most of the people that make up the school districts in the area I live in really couldn't give a rat's hindquarters about Tibet...Or India...Or Thailand...

Oh we know. Which just shows how important it is that you should have been taught about other countries and cultures in school. It's called an education for a reason. You go to school to learn stuff.

Do you get my point now?? Those places aren't high on the importance list for people who live where I do.

You sound like one of my 14 year old students who sit there and tell me that they shouldn't have to learn [insert any subject here] because it's not relevant to them and they don't care. Ignorance really isn't something to be proud of.

Just because you think they are important, doesn't mean a bunch of country people around here are going to care one whit about them. Of course, you probably want our fabulously efficient government to [/i]make[/i] the schools teach that stuff, right?

Hell..why not just shut the schools down altogether. Clearly you folk don't need and education at all.

People want the government to force us to do more and more....but then sit around and bitch about how terrible the government is.

I don't often agree with Rush, but on this one....I am right there with him.

I can't say I am surprised. Sadly that attitude is one I see in teenagers day after day. Luckily I've got an education and understand the value of it and the difference it makes to people's lives even if at the time they can't see why they need it.

So you might not see the need to learn about other countries (which means your government can then tell you any old bull as to why you have to invade them and you'll swallow it whole because you don't know anything)..but trust me..the more you know, the better choices you can make.

How can you possibly judge about the usefulness of something when you are ignorant of what it is? Can't you see how flawed your argument is?

I'll leave you with an Oscar Wilde quote:

"I do not approve of anything that tampers with natural ignorance. Ignorance is like a delicate exotic fruit; touch it and the bloom is gone. The whole theory of modern education is radically unsound. Fortunately in England, at any rate, education produces no effect whatsoever. If it did, it would prove a serious danger to the upper classes, and probably lead to acts of violence in Grosvenor Square."

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Reality Internet Personality

... Well...most of the people that make up the school districts in the area I live in really couldn't give a rat's hindquarters about Tibet...Or India...Or Thailand...

Do you get my point now?? Those places aren't high on the importance list for people who live where I do.

Just because you think they are important, doesn't mean a bunch of country people around here are going to care one whit about them. ...

Sounds like there needs to be a LOT more general education there in the first place!

Or are all Americans completely blinkered on their own back yards and believe in the religion called Xenophobia?

I guess the rest of the world simply doesn't exist for them?

Regards,
Martin

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See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

... like one of my 14 year old students who sit there and tell me that they shouldn't have to learn [insert any subject here] because it's not relevant to them and they don't care. Ignorance really isn't something to be proud of.

[...]

I can't say I am surprised. Sadly that attitude is one I see in teenagers day after day. Luckily I've got an education and understand the value of it and the difference it makes to people's lives even if at the time they can't see why they need it. ...

I agree.

Shame there are still so many country bumpkins willing to stay blind in their utter ignorance.

Or is it that most of America is still at the "Country Bumpkin"/"Adolescent" level?

Or might that even be the case in general for many people?...

Regards,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

A good start is just simply to care.

There is a cultural POGROM being executed in Tibet.

And note that the religion there is more of a philosophy. If you're educated enough to appreciate it that is.


There are various parallels with the American treatment of the American Natives. Except that the native Tibetans cannot fight, neither practically nor due to their religion. Shame there's no oil there to spark a US invasion...

Regards,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Free Tibet!

http://www.freetibet.org/


.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Well...most of the people that make up the school districts in the area I live in really couldn't give a rat's hindquarters about Tibet...Or India...Or Thailand...

Oh we know. Which just shows how important it is that you should have been taught about other countries and cultures in school. It's called an education for a reason. You go to school to learn stuff.

And as long as you think it's worth teaching....then by all means...let the government MAKE us teach it. If it's anything that you consider " mumbo jumbo "...no way..and they can't make you. I wouldn't bet on that. They can make you do whatever they want.

So, if the government decided that ID should be taught in your class....would you quit being a teacher? Would you rather teach them nothing at all as opposed to something that you don't believe in?

---

Air Cold, the blade stops;
from silent stone,
Death is preordained

Calm Chaos Forums : Everyone Welcome

teachers are not there to teach something they believe, they are there to teach facts, when they show even one scientific fact, teachers can teach that.

So, if the government decided that ID should be taught in your class....would you quit being a teacher? Would you rather teach them nothing at all as opposed to something that you don't believe in?

I'm sure it would make for a very interesting court case for "unfair dismissal for refusal to teach lies".

A good start is just simply to care.

Another important step is to want to know the truth and to want to learn more. Anything less and you deserve to fester and die forever zombied in an utter impoverished ignorance.

Fairytales, religion, politics, and science all have their place. They are all very different. Perhaps the first lesson to be taught should be to show the difference between them.

Regards,
Martin


[edit] Addendum: And long established religions tangled like vines in their own dogma enshrine their own form of politics! [/edit]

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See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Well...most of the people that make up the school districts in the area I live in really couldn't give a rat's hindquarters about Tibet...Or India...Or Thailand...

Oh we know. Which just shows how important it is that you should have been taught about other countries and cultures in school. It's called an education for a reason. You go to school to learn stuff.

And as long as you think it's worth teaching....then by all means...let the government MAKE us teach it. If it's anything that you consider " mumbo jumbo "...no way..and they can't make you. I wouldn't bet on that. They can make you do whatever they want.

So, if the government decided that ID should be taught in your class....would you quit being a teacher? Would you rather teach them nothing at all as opposed to something that you don't believe in?

If it got to the point where they were making me teach that in my classroom I would either quit or get fired for refusing to teach it. It's not science. People are welcome to believe whatever they want..but I didn't train to be a science teacher to teach that rubbish to them.

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Reality Internet Personality

I'm sure it should be covered in a separate class,

One dedicated to presenting an overview of all religions. The book "Angels and Demons" gives a nice picture of the head-butting competition that's been perpetuated between science and religion. (Religion having started it.)

At this point in the game called civilization, (Though the name doesn't suit the phenomenon.), we really need some understanding between peoples. Too much fear and hate in our world and the solution starts with our children. We "Adults" are far to dull and set in our ignorance.

IMO


.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Free Tibet!

http://www.freetibet.org/.

Thanks for a very good link there.

From the latest 'dialogue' with the Chinese officials, it looks like the Chinese cultural POGROM to blithely eradicate the Tibetan culture (and it's native people?) is to continue unabated...

Follow-up thread:
Chinese POGROM to eradicate Tibet

Regards,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

id should not be taught in any class, you can teach religion if you like but then you have to teach all the major religion on earth, not just what you happen to believe, and atheism too, but not id cause it is nothing, not religion, not science.

I'm sure it should be covered in a separate class,

One dedicated to presenting an overview of all religions. The book "Angels and Demons" gives a nice picture of the head-butting competition that's been perpetuated between science and religion. (Religion having started it.)

At this point in the game called civilization, (Though the name doesn't suit the phenomenon.), we really need some understanding between peoples. Too much fear and hate in our world and the solution starts with our children. We "Adults" are far to dull and set in our ignorance.

IMO


.

I can imagine that in some places in the US a comparative religion class would end up being "Why [insert major religion of town here] is right and all other religions are wrong. This would just make it a further reinforcement of religious hatred. If it would be certain that the class would teach the good parts of all religions (including those that are NOT popular in the local school district) then I believe it would be a good idea. However with so much local control, this is impossible.

I took a class similar to this from my church. The class specifically never mentioned the religion of that church but was designed to give a sense of the belief systems of other religions.

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