If the overall goal is to reduce the cost of driving a good sized diesel truck, I'd consider Biodiesel.

I have looked into Biodiesel some. Generally it requires a main ingredient, some type of vegetable oil, generally Waste Vegetable Oil (WVO). There is not a good supply of it locally, and to have it hauled in on a bulk truck, requires a large, up-front investment for the large shipment, as well as large storage tanks. Economically unfeasible for me to do it that way, at this time. When my ship comes in... I priced new vegetable oil at the local stores.... and just about had a heart attack. Something like $16 per gallon. Also, suppliers of bulk WVO, are few and far between. Nothing locally. The local restaurants are all contracting their waste out to someone else already.

I do intend on going that route at some point.

Mark

You mentioned having a ready supply of manure. What produces that, and what do you feed them?

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You mentioned having a ready supply of manure. What produces that, and what do you feed them?

Cattle, Sheep and Hogs. We feed them Alfalfa, Corn Sileage and other grains.
The process of making fuel from these feeds, is out of our reach. Cellulosic Ethanol isn't something that is easily made in your back yard.

Mark

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You mentioned having a ready supply of manure. What produces that, and what do you feed them?

Cattle, Sheep and Hogs. We feed them Alfalfa, Corn Sileage and other grains.
The process of making fuel from these feeds, is out of our reach. Cellulosic Ethanol isn't something that is easily made in your back yard.

Mark

There are a number of seed-oil crops (like this one) that make good sources of vegetable oil for fuel, and the residue from pressing the oil is still usable as feed.

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You mentioned having a ready supply of manure. What produces that, and what do you feed them?

Cattle, Sheep and Hogs. We feed them Alfalfa, Corn Sileage and other grains.
The process of making fuel from these feeds, is out of our reach. Cellulosic Ethanol isn't something that is easily made in your back yard.

Mark

There are a number of seed-oil crops (like this one) that make good sources of vegetable oil for fuel, and the residue from pressing the oil is still usable as feed.

Nobody grows rapeseed in this part of the country. I will have to check into it. Also, Blackleg, a disease which has been nearly eradicated in this area, is prone to a comeback if people start to plant rapeseed here.

Mark

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You mentioned having a ready supply of manure. What produces that, and what do you feed them?

Cattle, Sheep and Hogs. We feed them Alfalfa, Corn Sileage and other grains.
The process of making fuel from these feeds, is out of our reach. Cellulosic Ethanol isn't something that is easily made in your back yard.

Mark

There are a number of seed-oil crops (like this one) that make good sources of vegetable oil for fuel, and the residue from pressing the oil is still usable as feed.

Nobody grows rapeseed in this part of the country. I will have to check into it. Also, Blackleg, a disease which has been nearly eradicated in this area, is prone to a comeback if people start to plant rapeseed here.

Mark

I guess you missed the word like. There are other fuel-crops.

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If the overall goal is to reduce the cost of driving a good sized diesel truck, I'd consider Biodiesel.

This is the process you are referring to

This post of mine, some 7 posts ago, covered this precise subject

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It's good to be back amongst friends and colleagues

If the overall goal is to reduce the cost of driving a good sized diesel truck, I'd consider Biodiesel.

This is the process you are referring to

Interesting prospect there. I wonder what it would cost to get it all set up?

Mark

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If the overall goal is to reduce the cost of driving a good sized diesel truck, I'd consider Biodiesel.

This is the process you are referring to

This post of mine, some 7 posts ago, covered this precise subject

... proving that great minds think alike.

Mark didn't like the idea of growing rapeseed but there is probably another plant that is suitable.

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It's not just the H2 and O2 it is the compounds in the fuel and the compounds in the air that will be formed when diesel fuel plus its additives plus the compounds in the air and the reactions that happen when they burn under compression and then adding more oxygen and hydrogen to the mix making more complex compounds such as nitrogen oxides and sulphur compounds and then adding more oxygen and hydrogen to the mix will produce gums and sludge and other pollutions because of the compounds in diesel fuel. Now just a pure hydrogen fuel car would produce water and that is a hydrogen fuel cell or switch to propane and it can be used indoors and in sensitive areas like the everglades but to add diesel to the mix and all kinds of compounds will be produced leading to pollution and gum and sludge.

Not quite true Paul

The only source of sulphur compounds in the exhaust is from poor quality diesel fuel, which, until recently, was the norm in the US.

New clean diesel, with less sulphur in the fuel than petrol, is coming, which is why the modern high tech European common rail diesels could not work properly in the US. The poor quality of the fuel killed them by means of all the gums and sludges you mentioned (above).

The use of the new clean very very low sulphur diesel, now spreading across the US, even when mixed with the 2xH2 and 1xO2 from water electrolysis, or pure hydrogen gas injection (to the air intake), will give a similar exhaust emission as required by the European Euro 4 or Euro 5 emission regulations.

Some background to the Euro 4 debate in 2006 can be found here. This should lead to the actual Euro 4 and 5 regulation exhaust emission standards that vehicles sold from 1st Jan 2007 are required to meet (both private and commercial).

The Nitrogen and it's oxides will still be a problem with diesel and the H2 and O2 additions a severe source of pollution and how the extra H2 and O2 reacts with the compounds in the air as it mixes with the fuel as it burns under compression. Any ideas on that?

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The Nitrogen and it's oxides will still be a problem with diesel and the H2 and O2 additions a severe source of pollution and how the extra H2 and O2 reacts with the compounds in the air as it mixes with the fuel as it burns under compression. Any ideas on that?

I cannot be definitive on that statement (NOx is a problem).

Diesel burns much hotter when combusted, which gives it more power but allows the nitrogen in the air to combine with oxygen in a complicated way to form various NOxes.

However, in Europe it is not a massive problem due to exhaust gas recirculation to cool the combustion, and cars with urea exhaust catalysts to mop up the rest of the NOx. Indeed, petrol power is now producing more NOx and particulates at the tail pipe than diesel.

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It's good to be back amongst friends and colleagues

If the overall goal is to reduce the cost of driving a good sized diesel truck, I'd consider Biodiesel.

This is the process you are referring to

This post of mine, some 7 posts ago, covered this precise subject

... proving that great minds think alike.

Mark didn't like the idea of growing rapeseed but there is probably another plant that is suitable.

Growing Rapeseed and using it for oils, then using the leftover products as feed, might be a good option. I will have to check into it. I do not know what kind of processing equipment will be necessary to get the oil out of it though, and the information didn't jump out at me the first time I looked at the website. It might be a really good option.

Mark

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If the overall goal is to reduce the cost of driving a good sized diesel truck, I'd consider Biodiesel.

This is the process you are referring to

This post of mine, some 7 posts ago, covered this precise subject

... proving that great minds think alike.

Mark didn't like the idea of growing rapeseed but there is probably another plant that is suitable.

Growing Rapeseed and using it for oils, then using the leftover products as feed, might be a good option. I will have to check into it. I do not know what kind of processing equipment will be necessary to get the oil out of it though, and the information didn't jump out at me the first time I looked at the website. It might be a really good option.

Mark

Mark,

You basically need an oil press.

You take your oil-seed and feed it into the hopper. The screw in the press squeezes the seed, oil comes out one port and the residue "cake" comes out the other -- and goes to feed livestock.

You can modify your truck or other equipment to run on the seed oil, or you can do the chemistry and make Biodiesel.

-- Ned

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If the overall goal is to reduce the cost of driving a good sized diesel truck, I'd consider Biodiesel.

This is the process you are referring to

This post of mine, some 7 posts ago, covered this precise subject

... proving that great minds think alike.

Mark didn't like the idea of growing rapeseed but there is probably another plant that is suitable.

Growing Rapeseed and using it for oils, then using the leftover products as feed, might be a good option. I will have to check into it. I do not know what kind of processing equipment will be necessary to get the oil out of it though, and the information didn't jump out at me the first time I looked at the website. It might be a really good option.

Mark

This Wikipedia article describes other feedstocks, including sunflower and soybean oil.

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open Questions

Why has the technology for electric cars been stalled

Why is research into hydrogen gas as a fuel actively discouraged

Why is the price of fuel so high when there is no need for this price according to the Saudis who are pumping oil flat out.

Are we all simply prepared to sit back and take this "bull" from the companies who are acting more like gangsters every day that passes...


comments welcome

Its not easy to answer.

VW will release two hybrid cars by the end of the year.
BMW and Mercedes are working on HH0 cars.

But its all about money.

How could the market make money if you could fill your car in the garden just with water.
Million of companies could close their doors.
And million of people would be workless.

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With each crime and every kindness we birth our future.

... Why is the price of fuel so high when there is no need for this price according to the Saudis who are pumping oil flat out.

The 'cost' of fossil fuel is set to go very very much higher...

There is the 'discounted' cost of polluting the atmosphere with vast amounts of CO2 from burning all that oil.

Far earlier than ever imagined, we've got a 50:50 chance of there being no ice at the north pole this year.

No ice at The North Pole

North Pole May Be Ice Free for First Time This Summer


And if you shrug that off as nothing or 'natural', then sorry but you're not on this planet!

Perhaps the recent speculative increases in oil prices are the best thing ever to have happened to push into using non-fossil fuels.

Regards,
Martin

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See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Its not easy to answer.

VW will release two hybrid cars by the end of the year.
BMW and Mercedes are working on HH0 cars.

But its all about money.

How could the market make money if you could fill your car in the garden just with water.
Million of companies could close their doors.
And million of people would be workless.

Peugeot is also bringing out a diesel-electric hybrid, like Mike states VW will be doing so.

The loss of ice at the North Pole in the Northern Hemisphere's summer is interesting. This means the North Polar region will be returning to it's ice free nature, like it was about 1 million years ago, but sooner than expected.

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It's good to be back amongst friends and colleagues

The 'cost' of fossil fuel is set to go very very much higher...

There is the 'discounted' cost of polluting the atmosphere with vast amounts of CO2 from burning all that oil.

And yet, you think it's OK for China, India, Russia, and Mexico and anyone else to burn as much as they wish--you think that so much so that they get EXEMPTED from any limits.

They love that. They burn as much as they want, get a a scapegoat out of the deal, and people like you support that. And, best of all, total emissions never get cut a whit.

What a brilliant plan.

Far earlier than ever imagined, we've got a 50:50 chance of there being no ice at the north pole this year.

And if you shrug that off as nothing or 'natural', then sorry but you're not on this planet!

Welp folks, you heard it here first. We're all dead.

Perhaps the recent speculative increases in oil prices are the best thing ever to have happened to push into using non-fossil fuels.

And, if the clamor over high energy prices is any indication, or the way people waste resources with crunching and "farms" and posting incessant and inane pictures, you can see how people really aren't going to cut much, no matter what you want them to do.

Which brings us full circle again--you had better come up with some better ideas than you have so far, or we're all going to die. Probably by December.

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Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

open Questions

Why has the technology for electric cars been stalled

Why is research into hydrogen gas as a fuel actively discouraged

Why is the price of fuel so high when there is no need for this price according to the Saudis who are pumping oil flat out.

Are we all simply prepared to sit back and take this "bull" from the companies who are acting more like gangsters every day that passes...


comments welcome

Because electric cars aren't as non-polluting as most would have you think. It starts with power, because somewhere, something is generating the power, and it's probably gas, oil or coal. Then transmission losses, and finally, when the batteries are done they're toxic waste.

It moves the pollution problem (and the fuel problem) from the car to the power plant. Oh, yeah, don't forget charging time.

... and hydrogen isn't really a fuel -- it's a transport. You make energy (electricity) someplace, electrolyze water, take the hydrogen someplace else, and recover the energy by burning the hydrogen. Great idea, but it moves the fuel problem (and the pollution problem) from the tailpipe to the power plant.

According to this article, prices are up because of production cuts by OPEC, especially Saudi Arabia.

It's a dangerous game -- when oil is $30/barrel, it's hard to create new technologies, infrastructure (Hydrogen, CNG or "electric" stations) and make a profit. At $143/barrel, those options become much more attractive.

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But its all about money.

How could the market make money if you could fill your car in the garden just with water.

The car companies don't care about "the market" in general. They're in the business of selling cars.

High fuel prices are an opportunity to sell fuel efficient cars. Low fuel prices are an opportunity to sell bigger, less efficient cars.

Respond to (or predict) the market correctly, and your car company will do well.

If that means filling your car from the garden hose, great!

The problem is that water does not burn. You have to do something to make "fuel" out of water and that takes energy -- which you end up buying somewhere.

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