speaking of death in 3rd world countries...800,000 children are infected with HIV/AIDS in Africa every year.

Guess what the two main causes are....

1. Lack of medicine to treat infected mothers
2. Breastfeeding

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speaking of death in 3rd world countries...800,000 children are infected with HIV/AIDS in Africa every year.

Guess what the two main causes are....

1. Lack of medicine to treat infected mothers
2. Breastfeeding

From National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases

TRANSMISSION
Almost all HIV-infected children acquire the virus from their mothers before or during birth or through breastfeeding. In the United States, approximately 25 percent of pregnant HIV-infected women not receiving AZT therapy have passed on the virus to their babies. The rate is significantly higher in developing countries.

Prior to 1985 when screening of the nation's blood supply for HIV began, some children as well as adults were infected through transfusions with blood or blood products contaminated with HIV. A small number of children also have been infected through sexual or physical abuse by HIV-infected adults.

PREGNANCY AND BIRTH

Most MTCT, estimated to cause more than 90 percent of infections worldwide in infants and children, probably occurs late in pregnancy or during birth. Although the precise mechanisms are unknown, scientists think HIV may be transmitted when maternal blood enters the fetal circulation or by mucosal exposure to virus during labor and delivery. The role of the placenta in maternal-fetal transmission is unclear and the focus of ongoing research.

The risk of MTCT is significantly increased if the mother has advanced HIV disease, increased levels of HIV in her bloodstream, or fewer numbers of the immune system cells-CD4+ T cells-that are the main targets of HIV.

Other factors that may increase the risk are maternal drug use, severe inflammation of fetal membranes, or a prolonged period between membrane rupture and delivery. A study sponsored by NIAID and others found that HIV-infected women who gave birth more than 4 hours after the rupture of the fetal membranes were nearly twice as likely to transmit HIV to their infants, as compared to women who delivered within 4 hours of membrane rupture.

BREASTFEEDING

HIV also may be transmitted from a nursing mother to her infant. Studies have suggested that breastfeeding introduces an additional risk of HIV transmission of approximately 10 to 14 percent among women with chronic HIV infection. In developing countries, an estimated one-third to one-half of all HIV infections are transmitted through breastfeeding.

WHO recommends that all HIV-infected women be advised about both the risks and benefits of breastfeeding for their infants so they can make informed decisions. In countries where safe alternatives to breastfeeding are readily available and economically feasible, this alternative should be encouraged. In general, in developing countries where safe alternatives to breastfeeding are not readily available, the benefits of breastfeeding in terms of decreased illness and death due to other infectious diseases greatly outweigh the potential risk of HIV transmission.

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..and I think you will find that the main cause is men infecting their wives through not using condoms and sleeping around. So again..you are wrong.

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Reality Internet Personality

speaking of death in 3rd world countries...800,000 children are infected with HIV/AIDS in Africa every year.

Guess what the two main causes are....

1. Lack of medicine to treat infected mothers
2. Breastfeeding

From National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases

TRANSMISSION
Almost all HIV-infected children acquire the virus from their mothers before or during birth or through breastfeeding. In the United States, approximately 25 percent of pregnant HIV-infected women not receiving AZT therapy have passed on the virus to their babies. The rate is significantly higher in developing countries.

Prior to 1985 when screening of the nation's blood supply for HIV began, some children as well as adults were infected through transfusions with blood or blood products contaminated with HIV. A small number of children also have been infected through sexual or physical abuse by HIV-infected adults.

PREGNANCY AND BIRTH

Most MTCT, estimated to cause more than 90 percent of infections worldwide in infants and children, probably occurs late in pregnancy or during birth. Although the precise mechanisms are unknown, scientists think HIV may be transmitted when maternal blood enters the fetal circulation or by mucosal exposure to virus during labor and delivery. The role of the placenta in maternal-fetal transmission is unclear and the focus of ongoing research.

The risk of MTCT is significantly increased if the mother has advanced HIV disease, increased levels of HIV in her bloodstream, or fewer numbers of the immune system cells-CD4+ T cells-that are the main targets of HIV.

Other factors that may increase the risk are maternal drug use, severe inflammation of fetal membranes, or a prolonged period between membrane rupture and delivery. A study sponsored by NIAID and others found that HIV-infected women who gave birth more than 4 hours after the rupture of the fetal membranes were nearly twice as likely to transmit HIV to their infants, as compared to women who delivered within 4 hours of membrane rupture.

BREASTFEEDING

HIV also may be transmitted from a nursing mother to her infant. Studies have suggested that breastfeeding introduces an additional risk of HIV transmission of approximately 10 to 14 percent among women with chronic HIV infection. In developing countries, an estimated one-third to one-half of all HIV infections are transmitted through breastfeeding.

WHO recommends that all HIV-infected women be advised about both the risks and benefits of breastfeeding for their infants so they can make informed decisions. In countries where safe alternatives to breastfeeding are readily available and economically feasible, this alternative should be encouraged. In general, in developing countries where safe alternatives to breastfeeding are not readily available, the benefits of breastfeeding in terms of decreased illness and death due to other infectious diseases greatly outweigh the potential risk of HIV transmission.[/b]

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..and I think you will find that the main cause is men infecting their wives through not using condoms and sleeping around. So again..you are wrong.

Nope, you just chose to skip the part that didn't apply to your fantasy.

I fixed the highlighting for ya.

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Nope, you just chose to skip the part that didn't apply to your fantasy.

I fixed the highlighting for ya.

You have reading comprehension problems.

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Reality Internet Personality

Nope, you just chose to skip the part that didn't apply to your fantasy.

I fixed the highlighting for ya.

You have reading comprehension problems.

Actually, you have simply failed to steer the conversation away from the fact that breastfeeding is a leading cause of AIDS in 3rd world countries regardless of any other benefits a child may gain through it's consumption.

Half of 800,000 is a lot of kids. You sure Nestle wasn't just trying to help them?

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Nope, you just chose to skip the part that didn't apply to your fantasy.

I fixed the highlighting for ya.

You have reading comprehension problems.

Actually, you have simply failed to steer the conversation away from the fact that breastfeeding is a leading cause of AIDS in 3rd world countries regardless of any other benefits a child may gain through it's consumption.

But the bit you highlighted didn't say that. In fact..if you read the whole thing you would see that in most cases the HIV virus is transferred before or during birth...and the baby is more likely to die from not being breast fed than by catching HIV through breast feeding. Which holds up my earlier point that Nestle should not be selling (and not just selling..but actively pushing) an unsafe product (in that context it is unsafe) to women in developing countries. Also note that Nestle are not simply pushing their product in those with HIV..but on healthy mothers too.

I know from previous discussions with you that you have trouble with the concept of breastfeeding and see it as an activity similar to defecating. Thankfully not every one sees it that way, but I think your prejudice is colouring your judgement of the facts.

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Reality Internet Personality

Nope, you just chose to skip the part that didn't apply to your fantasy.

I fixed the highlighting for ya.

You have reading comprehension problems.

Actually, you have simply failed to steer the conversation away from the fact that breastfeeding is a leading cause of AIDS in 3rd world countries regardless of any other benefits a child may gain through it's consumption.

But the bit you highlighted didn't say that.

WT* are you talking about? I didn't edit anything. You want to read it again?
In developing countries, an estimated one-third to one-half of all HIV infections are transmitted through breastfeeding.

In fact..if you read the whole thing you would see that in most cases the HIV virus is transferred before or during birth...and the baby is more likely to die from not being breast fed than by catching HIV through breast feeding.

Like I said, I didn't edit the statement and only one of us is trying to say it says something other than what each and every one of us can read for ourselves.

Which holds up my earlier point that Nestle should not be selling (and not just selling..but actively pushing) an unsafe product (in that context it is unsafe) to women in developing countries. Also note that Nestle are not simply pushing their product in those with HIV..but on healthy mothers too.

I understand...punish Smith & Wesson because criminals murder people with guns.
Punish Nestle for providing a product some people are to stupid to utilize properly.

I know from previous discussions with you that you have trouble with the concept of breastfeeding and see it as an activity similar to defecating.

By this I'm sure you mean something that should be done in private rather than in public.

Funny, I thought YOU were the advocate for not trying to intentionally offend others. I guess it's true that your opinions are based on how they affect you rather than on equality for all. You can imagine my surprise...

Thankfully not every one sees it that way, but I think your prejudice is colouring your judgement of the facts.

The fact of the matter is that at best, you've illustrated an unethical practice, which is considerably different than a malicious act, as you're trying to claim took place.

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Opening this thread to move the HIV discussion into.

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BOINC WIKI

Oddly enough, for once Es99 and I share a similar opinion.

She implied that Nestle acted maliciously by providing baby formula, free of charge, to various hospitals and clinics in 3rd world countries, since lack of breastfeeding adversely affects a mother's ability to produce milk on her own.

My contention was that if 1/3-1/2 of children infected with AIDS in developing countries were infected as a direct result of breastfeeding, then perhaps Nestle was trying to save upwards of 400,000 lives per year and should not be held responsible for the consumer's inability to utilize the product correctly.

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Malicious action, BrainSmashR? Where? Sheesh, I wish I could keep up.

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

By the thread title and your opening post, I take this to be a thread about HIV. Specifics have mentioned in vitro (is that the correct term?) and breastfeeding. There was something about Nestle? I don't get that whole thing? Chocolate milk?

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

How is it that JM7 opened this thread & his opening remarks are missing? They might help to lead this thread in the right direction.

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Account frozen...

No, this is BrainSmashR's thread.
I'm confused.
Is there a problem here?
Why can't I keep up here anymore?

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

How is it that JM7 opened this thread & his opening remarks are missing? They might help to lead this thread in the right direction.

Let the leader speak!

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

How about Hep C........the little known disease.......
My GF has it......she was a wild one in her younger years........

It was spread wide and far before they even had clinical tests for it.......

She had cancer in her throat...(cured for now).....and it's when they were diagnosing that when they even figured out she had hepc...........

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

How about Hep C........the little known disease.......
My GF has it......she was a wild one in her younger years........

It was spread wide and far before they even had clinical tests for it.......

She had cancer in her throat...(cured for now).....and it's when they were diagnosing that when they even figured out she had hepc...........

Hepatitis diagnosis has been sort of interesting.

First it was just Hepatitis. Then that split into Hepatitis A and Non-A Hepatitis. Then it was A, B, and Non-a-non-b... I believe that they are up to around f at the moment.

The good news for Hepatitis C is that there is a course of treatment available. I am not certain whether it cures or just controls the disease.

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BOINC WIKI

Friend of mine at work had Hepatitis C treatment. Said it is BRUTAL...can make you really ill but he said he's cured.

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How about Hep C........the little known disease.......
My GF has it......she was a wild one in her younger years........

It was spread wide and far before they even had clinical tests for it.......

She had cancer in her throat...(cured for now).....and it's when they were diagnosing that when they even figured out she had hepc...........

Hepatitis diagnosis has been sort of interesting.

First it was just Hepatitis. Then that split into Hepatitis A and Non-A Hepatitis. Then it was A, B, and Non-a-non-b... I believe that they are up to around f at the moment.

The good news for Hepatitis C is that there is a course of treatment available. I am not certain whether it cures or just controls the disease.

There are many different mutations of the virus around........just as there are many different mutations of the common cold virus goring around...the bastards adapt and change....that's why they can't get a shot for the common cold........

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

By the thread title and your opening post, I take this to be a thread about HIV. Specifics have mentioned in vitro (is that the correct term?) and breastfeeding. There was something about Nestle? I don't get that whole thing? Chocolate milk?

My posts were about Nestle and the things corporations do for money. The HIV discussion was a side issue and not actually the whole topic. I am not particularly interested in discussing how breastfeeding transfers HIV as that is not the real issue.

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Reality Internet Personality

Oddly enough, for once Es99 and I share a similar opinion.

She implied that Nestle acted maliciously by providing baby formula, free of charge, to various hospitals and clinics in 3rd world countries, since lack of breastfeeding adversely affects a mother's ability to produce milk on her own.

My contention was that if 1/3-1/2 of children infected with AIDS in developing countries were infected as a direct result of breastfeeding, then perhaps Nestle was trying to save upwards of 400,000 lives per year and should not be held responsible for the consumer's inability to utilize the product correctly.

If Nestle were in fact doing that then it would would indeed be an act of philanthropy and I would agree that they there were trying to sell a valid product.

However, as has been shown that is not the case as more lives are lost through using formula in the developing world through aggressively promoting formula to mothers as a viable way for all of them to feed their babies, than are lost through the transmission of HIV through breastfeeding. .They are also not just promoting formula to mothers with HIV, but to healthy mothers.

In the US and other developed nations the use of formula along with drug therapies is certainly the best option for mothers of HIV as the benefits far out weigh the risks. It is not the best option for healthy mothers at all.

Nestle has adopted this practice of miselling for over 20 years now despite being told the consequences of their actions. Any company that goes ahead knowingly and cynically selling a product that causes harm and death when people are telling them this is the case should be stopped. I don't give a monkeys about free markets and all that rubbish.

Just in the same way Margaret Thatcher left government here and went to help tobacco companies discover new markets in India and other less developed countries because people in the west were too aware of the risks of smoking.

This is cynical exploitation. People will die. The corporations know people will die and they do it anyway.

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Reality Internet Personality