Lies Lies Lies - Closed
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 Qui-Gon  Send message Joined: 15 May 99 Posts: 2940 Credit: 19,199,902 RAC: 11 
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Qui-Gon Again, you seem to be having difficulty understanding the English language. Earlier you did not know the meaning of the word "lie"; now, you seem to be having some trouble understanding the phrase "is consistent with". The paragraph you have quoted is from a letter to Congress from the President in a dialogue about Public Law 107-243, the Congressional Authorization for War. The president said in this paragraph that he believes such authorization is consistent with heightened security actions by the United States and other countries that are necessary in the wake of 911. It does not say that Saddam was involved in 911. It does not say that Saddam is a terrorist. You left out the introductory paragraph of the letter which says: "Consistent with section 3(b) of the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 (Public Law 107-243), and based on information available to me, including that in the enclosed document, I determine that:" (highlight added). Again, there are plenty of reasons to believe that Saddam was a threat to American Security even if there were no WMD, as I have outlined for you in some detail. I also pointed out that Saddam's violations of the cease-fire were not going to be tolerated by the United States after 911, simply because we could no longer afford to ignore any security concerns. But, you have already rejected my response as "spin". Your failure to properly understand the words that you cited seems to be nothing more than a frenetic attempt to grasp at anything which supports your point of view even when, as here, the material does no such thing. It is interesting that you never mentioned the purpose of Public Law 107-243 (Congressional authorization for war). Could that be because Congressional authorization, pursuant to the Constitution of the United States, flies in the face of a claim that this war is illegal? ID: 709536 ·  |
Robert Waite  Send message Joined: 23 Oct 07 Posts: 2417 Credit: 18,192,122 RAC: 59 
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LOL ID: 709542 · |
Pappa  Send message Joined: 9 Jan 00 Posts: 2562 Credit: 12,301,681 RAC: 0
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Robert There is no lie in what you posted. Without the enclosure it is hard to say what other proof might be hidden. What is stated is information has gone to the president that certain parties are directly or indirectly involved in "terrorism." The US, many contires of the World and even Canada signed an accord stating they would aid in the fight against "terrorism" Saddam, by killing his own people (bioloical/nerve/other agents and other means) started proving to the world that he was in fact someone to be dealt with. His admission that he lied about having weapons of mass distruction (after providing enough evidence that they could exist and other things) was part of his downfall. it also tells that many intelligence agenices in other parts of the world had mostly the same information from many sources. So all the people Islam who are killing each other (and have been for decades or is that centuries) and everyone else according to you are people to be admired. You are not talking about how their leaders lie to them to support the quote "holy war." Or how those lies have lead up to the present state of affairs. The latest news is that they are now using "grandmothers" for sucide bombers. At this point with the personal conflicts happening in this thread, I find that many posts get away from the topic. Bring Your Lies with proof, otherwise this has just became "name calling" (many of the latest posts suggest that is the topic). Qui-Gon Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project. ID: 709563 · |
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Robert Waite Send message Joined: 23 Oct 07 Posts: 2417 Credit: 18,192,122 RAC: 59
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I didn't start this thread to talk about the lies of Saddam, and I'm not defending the idiot. I wanted to point out The Center for Public Integrity's report on it's finding that Bush's administration lied to the American public 935 times in the two year lead up to the invasion of Iraq. I'd be happy to join you all in kicking Saddam's lifeless corpse around in the streets because he was a pig, but that's not the topic of this thread. By linking Iraq, Al-Qeada and Sept 11 together in so many speeches, the republican administration made the American people believe that Saddam was responsible. These guys can defend Bush till they're blue in the face, it won't change the fact that he lied. And I'm sorry for saying this, but I have a higher expectation of the leader of the free world than I do of someone like Saddam. Bush lied. ID: 709583 · |
BrainSmashR  Send message Joined: 7 Apr 02 Posts: 1772 Credit: 384,573 RAC: 0
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I didn't start this thread to talk about the lies of Saddam, and I'm not defending the idiot. Seems to me that you and your English impaired friends are the only ones who think we tried to link Saddam to 911. Either way, you readily admit that he was "a pig" and would enjoy desecrating his remains. Well guess what, he didn't volunteer to step down, disarm, or be hung...you can't have it both ways, Frenchie.   
ID: 709589 · |
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Pappa Send message Joined: 9 Jan 00 Posts: 2562 Credit: 12,301,681 RAC: 0
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Prove it! You have not to this point! At this point you are defending Saddam! You are attacking someone that had the guts to take him to task! Various other World News sources have pointed to "Money from Oil" going to support Al-Qeada and other terror organizations, either directly or indirectly. Not to mention his own "Internal terror" against his own people." Some of those are now keeping thier heads lower for fear of having something drop onto it. So how the US got there or how many of us feel about that it is an issue that everyone should become informed on. Yes I has seen the News where Bush can not read the Teleprompter for what he is supposed to be talking about. Yes I have seen him trip over his own words. At least he is doing something, by your own admission Canada is NOT! what is wrong with that? They signed the accord against terrorism... I didn't start this thread to talk about the lies of Saddam, and I'm not defending the idiot. Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project. ID: 709594 · |
Jeffrey  Send message Joined: 21 Nov 03 Posts: 4793 Credit: 26,029 RAC: 0 |
The latest news is that they are now using "grandmothers" for sucide bombers. Oh for the luv of God, where do you people get this stuff? First 'baby bombs' and now 'granny bombs'? True or not, it's your 'over dramatizations' of 'unneeded information' that give you away every time... ;) (Demonizing the enemy is a military tactic. Please try to keep it in the military.)  It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .
ID: 709626 · |
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Qui-Gon Send message Joined: 15 May 99 Posts: 2940 Credit: 19,199,902 RAC: 11
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LOL Well Bobby, it's good that you can laugh at your own lack of intelligence. Your failure to comment on my post simply leaves my clear explanation unchallenged and intact. Thank you for conceding my point and the argument. ID: 709747 · |
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Qui-Gon Send message Joined: 15 May 99 Posts: 2940 Credit: 19,199,902 RAC: 11
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The latest news is that they are now using "grandmothers" for sucide bombers. Jeffrey, I don't know much about "EARTHtimes.org" but they have this on-line article about women and children being used in terrorist acts. This has been reported on NPR (National Public Radio), CNN and Fox. ID: 709749 · |
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Robert Waite Send message Joined: 23 Oct 07 Posts: 2417 Credit: 18,192,122 RAC: 59
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I laughed because you accuse me of not mentioning the purpose of 107-143. I'm not an Ambulance Chaser (lawyer) or a Whiplash Willy (another lawyer) yet you want me to explain law in this forum. I laughed because you say I left out article 1 when I posted a link to the letter so felt no need to duplicate it in my post. I type with two fingers and there's no way I was typing the entire letter AND posting a link. I laughed because you keep relying on definitions of the word "lie" and now the phrase "is consistant with" to try and convince me that Bush is not a damned liar. What's it like to live in fear of the world's pissant dictators? You seem to feel there's a grave and present danger lurking behind every corner in these small, and very easy to invade countries yet when the Chinese threaten a nuclear attack you don't even blink an eye or break a sweat. China has a horrific human rights record and have been the only nation to actually openly and emphatically threaten America with nukes since the fall of the Soviet Union, so why doesn't Bush send in the Marines to take on the Big Dog instead of the weak puppies? The fact that the Chinese did this with no reaction from your president is very interesting and informative to anyone thinking Bush gives a damn about any of you. ID: 709757 · |
Es99  Send message Joined: 23 Aug 05 Posts: 10874 Credit: 350,402 RAC: 0
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LOL Perhaps you should lay off the personal insults? Reality Internet Personality ID: 709806 · |
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Qui-Gon Send message Joined: 15 May 99 Posts: 2940 Credit: 19,199,902 RAC: 11
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I laughed because you accuse me of not mentioning the purpose of 107-143. It is painfully clear to me that you don't have either the intelligence or the language skills to be a lawyer, but I didn't ask you to explain the law, just to mention its purpose. Even if you only type with two fingers you could have mentioned that Public Law 107-243 is the Congressional authorization for war; that point was pretty important to understanding what the letter you cited to meant. What you were clearly trying to avoid is having to admit this is not Bush's war but America's war, which was properly and legally authorized by Congress, and in which we have been joined by a small but brave coalition of countries. I laughed because you keep relying on definitions of the word "lie" and now the phrase "is consistent with" to try and convince me that Bush is not a damned liar. I really find it sad that I have to continually inform you of the meaning of simple words, as you have made it obvious that you do not understand them. Even now you continue to call the President a liar when you have not given a single example of an actual lie. I hope that you're failing is based on poor language skills and not mere stupidity. What's it like to live in fear of the world's pissant dictators? You seem to feel there's a grave and present danger lurking behind every corner in these small, and very easy to invade countries yet when the Chinese threaten a nuclear attack you don't even blink an eye or break a sweat. I do not fear the world's dictators because I have a government strong enough and wise enough to protect me from them. And although there is still reason to fear rogue terrorists, steps are also being taken to make the world (my country and yours) safer from those madmen. You are welcome for the work that we have done to protect you. China has a horrific human rights record and have been the only nation to actually openly and emphatically threaten America with nukes since the fall of the Soviet Union, so why doesn't Bush send in the Marines to take on the Big Dog instead of the weak puppies? What part of "cease-fire treaty" do you not understand? There was such a treaty with Iraq, there is no such treaty with China. Iraq was given ample opportunity to comply with its obligations under the treaty and it did not. China was under no such obligations, and some political speech exhibiting meaningless saber rattling is not to be taken as a serious threat of war. Under the same circumstances, if China made the same kinds of threatening moves that Saddam was guilty of for more than a decade, appropriate action would be taken. But all this is moot, since you conceded my points by failing to respond in your post #709707. It's too late now to change your mind (what little you have). ID: 709810 · |
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Jeffrey Send message Joined: 21 Nov 03 Posts: 4793 Credit: 26,029 RAC: 0 |
The new american policy, foreign and domestic: Do you have our jesus? If not, we will beat him into you... Terrorists are out to get you! If you don't believe us, we will beat it into you... We will beat these things into you even if it kills you because we love you... Didn't you get the memo? ;) It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .
ID: 709903 · |
Fuzzy Hollynoodles  Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 9659 Credit: 251,998 RAC: 0 |
The latest news is that they are now using "grandmothers" for sucide bombers. No, Jeffrey, it's now Down's Syndrome bombs! Bombs strapped to Down's syndrome women kill scores in Baghdad markets · Deadliest day in Iraq since start of US surge a year ago · Mobile phones used to set off devices, say military Michael Howard in Baghdad Saturday February 2, 2008 The Guardian Remote-controlled explosives were strapped to two women with Down's syndrome and detonated in coordinated attacks on two Friday morning markets in central Baghdad yesterday, killing at least 73 people and wounding nearly 150. The first targeted shoppers at a pet market in the al-Ghazl area, killing 46 people and injuring 100. About 20 minutes later, a second bomber struck at a smaller bird market in south-eastern Baghdad, killing 27 people and wounding at least 67. The toll made it one of the deadliest days since the US troop surge a year ago began to arrest the spread of violence. The chief Iraqi military spokesman in Baghdad, Brigadier General Qassim al-Moussawi, claimed the female bombers had Down's syndrome and that the explosives were detonated by remote control, indicating they may not have been willing attackers in what could be a new method by suspected Sunni insurgents to subvert stepped-up security measures. The US ambassador to Iraq, Ryan Crocker, said the bombings showed that al-Qaida has "found a different, deadly way" to try to destabilise Iraq. US secretary of state Condoleezza Rice said the bombings in Iraq proved al-Qaida is "the most brutal and bankrupt of movements" and would strengthen Iraqi resolve to reject terrorism. Police said both bombers were women who had slipped past local security checks by hiding explosives under their black abaya robes. Major-General Qassim Moussawi, spokesman for the Iraqi military in Baghdad, said the suicide bombs were detonated remotely by mobile telephones. "We found the mobiles used to detonate the women," he said, adding that the women had mental disabilities. He did not elaborate on how the Iraqi military knew about their mental condition. In January, the number of Iraqi civilians and security forces killed fell to 600, the lowest monthly death toll since December 2005, according to unofficial tallies. Despite the nationwide reduction in violence, senior US military officials in Iraq have repeatedly warned against complacency, saying that a number of Sunni and Shia militant groups are still bent on fomenting sectarian strife. The twin blasts underlined the fragility of the recent security gains in Baghdad and are bound to damage public confidence in the ability of Iraqi security forces and neighbourhood watch groups to stop attacks on Iraqi civilians. The weekly animal bazaar at al-Ghazl has been bombed several times since the US invasion in 2003. But the improved security environment in recent months has revived its popularity. Taking advantage of the lifting of the Friday curfew on vehicles, families flocked to the area. Witnesses said the bomber had passed through a checkpoint, claiming she had birds to sell. "She called people to her and then there was a flash and a big force, and we were all knocked to the ground," said Kamel Hayder, a student who had gone to the market with his younger brother. "When I raised myself there were bodies everywhere, and I was covered in blood, but I could not tell whether it was my own or that of the birds." A pigeon vendor said the market had been unusually crowded, with people taking advantage of the day off to be outdoors on the pleasantly crisp and clear winter day. January had been unusually cold and rainy. "I have been going to the pet market with my friend every Friday, selling and buying pigeons," said Ali Ahmed, who was hit by shrapnel in his legs and chest. "It was nice weather today and the market was so crowded." He said he was worried about his friend, Zaki, who disappeared after the blast about 40 yards away. "I just remember the horrible scene of the bodies of dead and wounded people mixed with the blood of animals and birds, then I found myself lying in a hospital bed," he added. Rescuers hauled the dead and wounded on to makeshift stretchers or the back of pick-up trucks. The wounded were taken to five hospitals. The casualties included a high number of women and children. The blast occurred close to the site of another bombing which killed 13 people on November 23. US commanders blamed that attack on an Iranian-backed Shia militant cell, which they said was trying to lay the blame on al-Qaida in order to drive the area's mostly Shia residents back into the arms of Shia militias for protection. There were no claims for yesterday's attacks. US and Iraqi commanders said Sunni militant groups were stepping up efforts to recruit female suicide bombers, in part because cultural sensitivities meant the predominantly male police force was less likely to pay close attention to them at checkpoints. While involving women in such deadly activity violates cultural taboos in Iraq, the US military has warned that al-Qaida is recruiting women and young people as suicide attackers to thwart stepped-up security measures. Syria also has reportedly tightened its border with Iraq, a main transit point for foreign bombers. Women in Iraq often wear abayas, the black Islamic robe, and avoid thorough searches at checkpoints because men are not allowed to touch them. "I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me 
ID: 710040 · |
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Jeffrey Send message Joined: 21 Nov 03 Posts: 4793 Credit: 26,029 RAC: 0 |
Deadliest day in Iraq since start of US surge a year ago Good to see the 'surge' is working... ;) It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .
ID: 710074 · |
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Fuzzy Hollynoodles Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 9659 Credit: 251,998 RAC: 0 |
Deadliest day in Iraq since start of US surge a year ago Diverting from the topic, using people with Down's Syndrom as suicide bombers, again, are we? "I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me
ID: 710378 · |
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Robert Waite Send message Joined: 23 Oct 07 Posts: 2417 Credit: 18,192,122 RAC: 59
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Tut tut Qui-Gon...so much anger. ID: 710441 · |
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Qui-Gon Send message Joined: 15 May 99 Posts: 2940 Credit: 19,199,902 RAC: 11
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Tut tut Qui-Gon...so much anger. I don't know where you get that. Perhaps you have been admiring yourself in a mirror when you accuse people of things that aren't true . . . ID: 710478 · |
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Robert Waite Send message Joined: 23 Oct 07 Posts: 2417 Credit: 18,192,122 RAC: 59
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If this story is true, the people who did this are filth and cowards. Of course, the republicans are not above telling a little lie or two to get public opinion onside with them. Remember the story about Iraqi soldiers taking babies out of incubaters and killing them in Kuwait? Turns out the sweet little teary eyed girl who said she witnessed it while telling the story to the cameras was the daughter of the Kuwaiti ammbassador to the US and was in the US all through the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. The story was invented by the public relations firm hired by the Kuwaiti government to get Americans angered at Iraq. Ever feel manipulated???? ID: 710493 · |
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Es99 Send message Joined: 23 Aug 05 Posts: 10874 Credit: 350,402 RAC: 0
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..and there doesn't appear to be any truth in the one about benazir bhutto being killed by an exploding baby either. Reality Internet Personality ID: 710504 · |
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