Your statement above Jeffrey shows how much you check your supposed facts.

Would you be interested in sharing your interpretation of 'The Use Of Deadly Force Policy' with the rest of the class... ;)

(Prediction: A long winded debate over the definition of the word 'reasonable'.)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

Qui-Gon,

I admire your tenacity and perseverance during this thread, but have to realize by now that the people you’re arguing with suffer from a disease. It called liberalism. Their minds are so open their brains have fallen out.

Ahh..it must be cliché time.

No, I just get tired of this liberal crap.

If we were in a room full of people and you have your hand in your pocket, saying that you have a gun and are threatening my family and I take out my gun and kill you did I do anything wrong? I think not.

Saddam did everything in his power to make the world believe he still had WMD, and threaten the world. The world called his bluff now he’s dead.

The person who lied was Saddam

And don't forget France, Russia and China lied as well. They were all taking bribes from Saddam under the oil for food program. Why doesn't Robert mention that??

I've asked the questions before.
If weapons of mass destruction are the criteria for invasion, when can we expect the US to try and move on China, Pakistan, Korea and the others.

You are aware that one of the Chinese generals stated publically that they would rain down fire on American cities if the US became involved in the Taiwan issue.
Seems more a real threat than some idiot in the desert but you guys seem to like your cheap crap from China more than national defense.

Another criteria seems to be developing the knowledge to enrich uranium so I ask again; When can we in Canada expect the invasion? We can enrich uranium like no one's business so we must be a target.

Oh, and don't bother with the insults against a liberal attitude. It doesn't work.
In reality, it makes me smug when tough talkers try that angle because most of them are tiny little pipsqueeks under 200 lbs and have never been in a street fight.

PS: I'm well read but I seem to have failed to see anything about Saddam spouting off about his arsenal of WMD's before Bush made him the target.
More neo-con crap.

http://www.chomsky.info/articles/20030811.htm

Preventive War 'the Supreme Crime'
Noam Chomsky Aug 11, 2003

It's only a page long but it packs a whollop. Note that about halfway through he brings up the issue of Saddam+Al-Qeada+Sept11 and the roll propaganda played in the push to war.

If you haven't read Chomsky before, check out some of his other writings.
This is the "liberal" that the neo-cons hate the most, but not one of them will ever dare debate the man.

Qui-Gon,

I admire your tenacity and perseverance during this thread, but have to realize by now that the people you’re arguing with suffer from a disease. It called liberalism. Their minds are so open their brains have fallen out.

Ahh..it must be cliché time.

No, I just get tired of this liberal crap.

If we were in a room full of people and you have your hand in your pocket, saying that you have a gun and are threatening my family and I take out my gun and kill you did I do anything wrong? I think not.

Saddam did everything in his power to make the world believe he still had WMD, and threaten the world. The world called his bluff now he’s dead.

The person who lied was Saddam

And don't forget France, Russia and China lied as well. They were all taking bribes from Saddam under the oil for food program. Why doesn't Robert mention that??

Except your analogy isn't correct. The analogy would be that you heard there was a guy down the street who had a gun..but you weren't 100% sure, so you go around to his house and shoot him just in case.

In case you hadn't noticed..Saddam Hussain never invaded the US or used WMDs against it..and even the WMDs he was supposed to have had could not be considered a reasonable threat to the US. He never had the capabilities to launch an attack on the US and this was well known by the Bush administration.

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Reality Internet Personality

No Robert you're not well read you only think you are, and you still haven't addressed the true liar's, Metterand, Putin and Zhu.

Chomsky is a certifiable lunatic, that's why no one will debate him (if that's even true). I'm sure he and Karl Marxx would have been good friends.

And didn't Canada send troops to Iraq? I guess you put your Prime Minister in jail. No I didn't think so.

@00Es I guess you've never heard of allies. I guess everyone's forgotten about the forty something UN resolutions that Saddam violated. It wasn't just about WMD's.

And Robert I'm sure your been in many street fights which makes you a street thug and qualifies you to evaluate street thugs not an American President.

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U.S.Air Force

To be honest.
Maybe you forgot how many other countries violated against UN resolutions and wasn´t invaded??
Nobody said Saddam was a pope.

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With each crime and every kindness we birth our future.

The use of deadly force can be summed up in three words; ability, opportunity, jeopardy. As the person who wrote the article states these form a Tripod and all have to be present before deadly force can be used. Bring up 'google' on your computer and type in :use of deadly force. Many articles will explain it very throughly. You will also find that many states have there own rules and requirements before deadly force can be applied.

As far as not being allowed to shoot unless fired upon, you may be referring to some stupid military policy in Iraq that is enforced for our troop to follow according to an article I have read some time ago.

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http://boinc.mundayweb.com/teamStats.php?userID=14824

*Reads through all the posts again*

odd..I've not seen anything to suggest that Robert is a street thug..funny how the all people that seem to be the first to start hurling personal insults are those that are the ones that support George Bush.

..and Chomsky..a certifiable lunatic?? Why? because he can back up all his arguments with facts, figures and dates and you don't agree with him but you are somehow unable to make a convincing argument as to why he is wrong, you just 'know' deep down in your heart that he simply can't be right and that's enough for you.

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Reality Internet Personality

Yes, robert did imply that he was a street fighter. I guess you missed that. How convenient for you.

And I do believe calling my President and Vice President liar's is an insult to my country and thus an insult to me.

But we should stick to the topic of the thread which is Lies,Lies,Lies. No one has yet addressed the lying criminals Metterand, Putin and Zhu.

Don't you think it could have ended differently if those three hadn't subverted the oil for food program and accepted bribes? They are the true liar's and criminals here.

I'm sure Hitler could support his case too but he was insane and so is chomsky.

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U.S.Air Force

And didn't Canada send troops to Iraq? I guess you put your Prime Minister in jail. No I didn't think so.

OOOO Bad call David

If you would have bothered to read the entries earlier in this thread, or tried to stay current in the affairs of the world and the damage being done by your president's "war on terror" you would already be aware that Canada has no troops in Iraq.

This is a sovereign nation, just as was Iraq, and we don't follow direct orders from the White House.

Oh Oh another reason to target us. LOL

...
And I do believe calling my President and Vice President liar's is an insult to my country and thus an insult to me....

ok..you totally lost me here...read your statement again and tell me you don't think there is something strange there.

If this is the way you are taught to 'think', then no wonder you follow your leadership so blindly.

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Reality Internet Personality

Yes, robert did imply that he was a street fighter. I guess you missed that. How convenient for you.

And I do believe calling my President and Vice President liar's is an insult to my country and thus an insult to me.

No implications involved. I'm saying out loud that the ones taking the hardest line and talking the most about war, death and destruction are wankers who never did it themselves.
They hid in National Guard units or received deferments to avoid doing the very thing they now send young men and women to do now.

George Bush spent the Vietnam era in the National Guard and Dickie Cheney got a deferment 5 times.
The best one is Rush Limbaugh getting a deferment for a boil on his ass. (I haven't fact checked this but I like it)

If you voted for those boneheads and are still standing by their actions in this world, then yes I am insulting you.

I stand corrected, I gave the canadian government more credit than I should have. My apologies.

Trust me I have my issues/disagreements with President Bush and his administration.

Robert, I've had the pleasure of serving side by side with the Canadian Air Force and they sound nothing like you. As for President Bush and Vice President Cheney not serving, I hope you're aware that the liberal's hero bill clinton ran away to Europe to avoid serving.

Robert would you care to explan Canada's role in Haiti? Any lies there??

And again you're not talking about the true liar's Metterand, Putin and Zhu.

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U.S.Air Force

This is a thread about the LIES told by your president and his administration composed of members of the living dead and all that is evil in this world.

If you wish to discuss other topics, please start another thread.
I'll be happy to join in and spout off.

A suggested title for your thread could be "America owns the world and does what it wants to whom it wants and when it wants".

If I disagree with that basic premise then I must be unamerican. (insert raspberry noise here)

PS: The Clintons are not heroes by any stretch. They are chameleons.

The use of deadly force can be summed up in three words; ability, opportunity, jeopardy. [snip]
these form a Tripod and all have to be present before deadly force can be used.

I would also like to add: 'The minimum force required to take control of the situation'...

And from a legal standpoint, three other words come to mind: motive, intent, and opportunity... ;)

(The WARMONGERS are WRONG! If that makes me anti-american, then so be it.)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

If I disagree with that basic premise then I must be unamerican. (insert raspberry noise here)

Actually your country of origin and failure to apply for citizenship make you unAmerican.

Your continued criticism of our country coupled with your your refusal to be critical of the actions of your own country make you nothing more than a hypocrite.

No one here approves of terrorism or wants war, but most of us realize the middle east has been at war with western culture for well over 30 years now, and I for one am happy that my country AS WELL AS YOURS is there doing something about it!

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most of us realize the middle east has been at war with western culture for well over 30 years now

Better stated as: Western culture has been at war with the middle east for well over 30 years now...


I realize that the middle east has never been in america, and that america has been in the middle east for 30 years...

I realize that america has been forcing 'christianity' and 'democracy' on the middle east for 30 years...

I realize that the war came to america for only one single day in 30 years... Provoked by the 30 years you speak of...

I realize that most of the fuel for this war comes from a false fear of Islam or a hatred of religion in general...

For these reasons, I realize that the warmongers are wrong... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

All politicians lie......it's what keeps them in the money.
And I was a 'dyed in the wool' republican until this second Bush term and the sad state of his handling of our relations with the rest of the world community.
And oddly enough, his defense of 'our oil' has not resulted in the cost of same going down, as evidenced by the recent spike in crude prices.......so what has it gained us, other than padding his cohorts' pockets with cash, and hardening much of the world's resentment against us?

Well, there's a lie worthy of discussion: that we invaded Iraq to steal their oil. Not only have we not stolen their oil, but we are paying the highest prices ever for the stuff. The US has not gotten any free oil from Iraq, nor sweetheart deals or any advantage in oil prices from our liberation of Iraq. But you might examine the underlying reasons that "the world community" has complained about our actions in Iraq; I'm sure you will uncover some lies being told there.

So what do you really think?
If we had kept our nose out of the Muslim's world would they still have attacked us?
And would that have made all of our problems go away?

I am not trying to be argumentative.....I just want to know if you really feel that 911 would not have happened if our leaders had paid more attention and money to what is happening here........
It makes me rather sad to think about what might have been done domestically with all of the money (and lives) that have been spent in Irag.....

Don't forget two attacks by al Qaeda in ... what, 1993 and 1998? Yet those were under Bill Clinton's "watch." So, it is not so easy to break this down into black and white.
As for another post here: no, calling names and impugning integrity is saved for e-mail these days, isn't it?

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

most of us realize the middle east has been at war with western culture for well over 30 years now

Better stated as: Western culture has been at war with the middle east for well over 30 years now...


I realize that the middle east has never been in america, and that america has been in the middle east for 30 years...

I realize that america has been forcing 'christianity' and 'democracy' on the middle east for 30 years...

I realize that the war came to america for only one single day in 30 years... Provoked by the 30 years you speak of...

I realize that most of the fuel for this war comes from a false fear of Islam or a hatred of religion in general...

For these reasons, I realize that the warmongers are wrong... ;)

Actually, you're wrong. No one country owns the world and the middle east has just as much right to travel the globe and spread their influence as anyone else....they've just yet to figure out that the majority of the world is appalled by hijackings and suicide bombers, not impressed.

As for your "religious" beliefs...just more christian hypocrisy and liberal scumbag double talk from a pathetic waste of life who refuses to support himself and blames the government for his problems. Your bible tells people to spread the word, the federal government endorses separation of church and state...it's even written into the Constitution.

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If I disagree with that basic premise then I must be unamerican. (insert raspberry noise here)

Actually your country of origin and failure to apply for citizenship make you unAmerican.

Your continued criticism of our country coupled with your your refusal to be critical of the actions of your own country make you nothing more than a hypocrite.

No one here approves of terrorism or wants war, but most of us realize the middle east has been at war with western culture for well over 30 years now, and I for one am happy that my country AS WELL AS YOURS is there doing something about it!

I am very critical of my own government.
I send letters to my Member of Parliament and Prime Minister quite often to express my views and opposition to the directions they take.

I also see our present Prime Minister as nothing more than a lapdog to your president and his corporate overlords.

PS: Why in hell would I be applying for American citizenship?
Canada is the country of my birth.
I grew up in Canada.
I live in Canada.
I work in Canada.
I raise my kids as Canadians.
I AM Canadian.
(another raspberry)