If i was to start building a pure BOINC crunching beast of a computer, would you guys here be able to talk me through this in a simple "Step by step" manner?

I mean would you be able to talk me through this like you are explaining it to your mother. I'm not great with the tech jargon!

I can buy an "off the shelf" computer but i feel that i could get more "crunch for my money" if i buy the components and build my own "Pure beast of a crunching machine".

Will someone take me through the list of components needed to do this.

1) This is the CPU i am thinking of getting;
http://www.elara.ie/products/detailsfull.asp?productcode=ECE1395603

Its an Intel Core 2 Extreme QX6850 / 3 GHz processor with L2 Advanced Smart Cache - 8 MB

At €924, i could handle that price! Is this a good price? (€1= aprox $1.5)

What do i need to buy with it?

Can i Overclock that thing to run faster?

It would help if you write stuff in list form like this;

1) A box to put it in (Case)

2) Power supply

3) Mother board ( I think i need a mother board with LGA775 Socket, not sure though)

4) Disk drive

I am considering using that online shop http://www.elara.ie/ so what do you think of their prices? Am i about to be ripped off?

What else do i need guys? Try not to get too technical as I'm not great with the terminology.

John in Ireland.

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Hi John
Nice poser, but I think that a lot of help that could be provided will all depend on your total budget.

For example MS brought out Windows Home Server & various manufacturers have produced a headless unit (no monitor, KB or mouse required) for around $800 approx.

I've built one which when totally finished (Needs more ram) will have cost around $2000.

It all depends on one's pocket & what they want.

---

...
Its an Intel Core 2 Extreme QX6850 / 3 GHz processor with L2 Advanced Smart Cache - 8 MB
...

STOP STOP !!!!!

Don't buy an old CPU!

Have a look here.

This CPU support SSE4.


BTW.
msattler let run this X9650-3.0 GHz @ ~ 4.6 GHz !!
O.K., with phased cooling! ;-)

---

...
For example MS brought out Windows Home Server & various manufacturers have produced a headless unit (no monitor, KB or mouse required) for around $800 approx.

I've built one which when totally finished (Needs more ram) will have cost around $2000.
...

You have a (some) link(s) from this?

BTW.
Normally you cannot OC a complete PC form a manufactures.

---

If i was to start building a pure BOINC crunching beast of a computer, would you guys here be able to talk me through this in a simple "Step by step" manner?

I mean would you be able to talk me through this like you are explaining it to your mother. I'm not great with the tech jargon!

I can buy an "off the shelf" computer but i feel that i could get more "crunch for my money" if i buy the components and build my own "Pure beast of a crunching machine".

Will someone take me through the list of components needed to do this.

1) This is the CPU i am thinking of getting;
http://www.elara.ie/products/detailsfull.asp?productcode=ECE1395603

Its an Intel Core 2 Extreme QX6850 / 3 GHz processor with L2 Advanced Smart Cache - 8 MB

At €924, i could handle that price! Is this a good price? (€1= aprox $1.5)

What do i need to buy with it?

Can i Overclock that thing to run faster?

It would help if you write stuff in list form like this;

1) A box to put it in (Case)

2) Power supply

3) Mother board ( I think i need a mother board with LGA775 Socket, not sure though)

4) Disk drive

I am considering using that online shop http://www.elara.ie/ so what do you think of their prices? Am i about to be ripped off?

What else do i need guys? Try not to get too technical as I'm not great with the terminology.

John in Ireland.

I went through a similar exercise about 6 months ago, though I was looking to replace my (very noisy) general purpose machine with something much quieter. Having done so, I then found it was very good for crunching (and has got better since).

Everyone who replies will have their favorite for each of the components and everyone's reasons will be different. All I can say in my own defence is that I went for the best "bang per buck" that I could find and have been totally satisfied with the results. So, based on that recent experience, here is what I suggest you consider:

Case: Antec P180 - separate HD / PSU chamber; plenty of room for air flow. All fans are big (120mm) so quieter than smaller fans for the same airflow and I have replaced all my 120mm fans with Noctua as they are even quieter.

Motherboard: Yes, LGA775 is necessary. Look at the Asus P5K - I have the P5B D/L; msattler has gone with the P5K - what other recommendation is required?

PSU: Seasonic S12

RAM: Good quality PC8500. Dual channel matched pair. Depending on the Operating System you intend to run (32 bit or 64 bit) either 2G or 4G of RAM. Don't go for cheap on the RAM - quality matters - I went for Corsair TwinX PC6400 but you will have a faster FSB available; other quality brands are available.

HDD: Your preferred brand of SATA hard drive - say 250G capacity.

CD / DVD: Whatever you prefer.

Your preferred processor does not come with a heatsink / fan so you will need that too. I went with a Scythe Ninja which uses a 120mm fan that pulls air across the memory heatsinks and then on over the processor and lines up exactly with the rear case outlet fan. A very effective overall cooling solution if you are sticking with air.

At a quick calculation based on an exchange rate of 1 Euro = 0.70 UKP, I reckon the QX6850 from Scan Computers works out at 840 euros. I've always found them very competitive on price and good on delivery and service (no, I don't have any vested interest!!).

I've probably forgotten something in this list, but others will point out any omissions soon enough.

Good luck,

F.

---

...
For example MS brought out Windows Home Server & various manufacturers have produced a headless unit (no monitor, KB or mouse required) for around $800 approx.

I've built one which when totally finished (Needs more ram) will have cost around $2000.
...

You have a (some) link(s) from this?

BTW.
Normally you cannot OC a complete PC form a manufactures.

Try this WHS

Even though a lot of people seem to be having problems, so far, I haven't experienced any. I think this could be down to a complete clean build - no upgrade path used.

Edit - As for crunching, I think it will surpase my main system before long (WHS - AMD X2 4200, Main AMD X2 3800)

---

Best bang for buck at the moment is definitely Q6600 G0.. €200 euros per chip, can do 3 times the crunching of a Penryn for the same price.
I would not buy the best at the top of the market because of depreciation, overclocked second best is good enough for me...

...
I mean would you be able to talk me through this like you are explaining it to your mother. I'm not great with the tech jargon!
...

Hi John, I know exactly what you mean as I had to help my mother through some major upgrades not that long ago. ( Yes, she rebuilt the machine with my remote help, no prior experience! ) at this early stage I can offer general suggestions but I will try and list some components that I would choose at the end, But I'd expect there to be many possible options, prices and availability would be different where you live.

It'd be a lot to consider in one go, so I'd suggest checking out one section at a time, asking questions, myself and others would help out, have different ideas and experiences, and will not always agree, that's expected and fine. Sorry if there are some things a little technical, you will need to make some decisions with a little bit of info/knowledge.

You first have to set your price and performance goals (necessary, as others have pointed out).

As you suggest I guess the next, arguably most important, step is the Acquisition of the components. Others can be more specific about which are good/bad, but I'll give some very general hints that might help (that seemed to work very well in my mother's process)

Things to keep in mind during stage 1 acquisition might be:
Avoid the 'bleeding edge' (for now anyway...)
- Sometimes, for the non-techie, selecting Middle to Middle-High range components can be better than selecting High end for everything: If you go 'Bleeding Edge' be aware that you, as an early adopter, effectively become the 'guinea pig'. New models of hardware often have issues at first, especially motherboards need BIOS updates and video cards often have issues with device drivers on release.
Stick to trusted, reviewed components that are discussed in fora
- generally speaking branded components will offer better support, and reliability, software updates etc... but this is not always the case, many manufacturers simply rebadge or outsource generic items. The only real ways I know around this is to avoid the cheapest models and read forums/ reviews carefully about the specific model you are considering.
Aim for upgradeability
- As it will be a self built machine,You may be wanting to update it later. Tying into unusual form factors(case style) or exotic hardware (e.g. server class disk systems) could possibly limit that in future. If you started with the intention of an upgradeable machine, you can always move to 'Bleeding Edge' components one at a time as your technical skill and the products become proven.
Your first build? stick with domestic parts, rather than server stuff
- Quite a lot of server type hardware seems to naturally assume a higher technical level of the purchaser. While the hardware is most times fantastic IMO, the documentation, software and all related requirements and configuration issues will be aimed at the more techie person.


These things might start to get a bit too technical, doesn't matter yet
If your Goals are Moderately High performance & Reasonable Budget, with upgradeability & overclockability projected for the future (when your skills & confidence grow) then Based on the above very general strategies I might suggest:

CPU: If goals insisted/allowed, the new Penryn, otherwise a midrange Core 2, the Q6600 Core 2 Quad are [still] a very good deal, though and Other Penryn Options should be released in January. [Still waiting on the verdicts for the AMD chips recently released, though if price is an issue they look interesting]

MOBO:(Motherboard) Becomes a personal features choice in many ways, A High end Asus or Gigabyte with the solid capacitors. It would be wise to stick with a full size ATX board if you might want to overclock later. One complication at the moment seems to be choosing whether to get a mobo that supports DDR3 or DDR2 (see next point)

RAM:, tough choice at the moment, DDR3 Ram is very expensive IMO, some report impressive performance differences, some don't, from what I understand seti crunching doesn't rely too much on this choice, it maybe better to stick with DDR2 mobo & Ram, then channel the extra dollars elsewhere (CPU), If this was intended as a no compromise build then sure, DDR3 low latency all the way, just make sure you take your heart medication before you look at the price :D, As a Brand I favour Corsair, though I understand many have had great success with other 'enthusiast' brands.

HARD DRIVE: You will probably need to be worried about what size you need, and maybe noise, I like Seagate, I also Like my Western Digital, probably another factor seti science app doesn't care too much about. Sometimes people say certain brands are bad or are superior than others. Hard drive specialist Web sites seem to be suggesting lately that more often than not it boils down to whether the particular supply chain, for a given brand, in your area involves the couriers playing soccer with the packages ;).

VIDEO CARD: Only for Seti? Don't stress, many might suggest on-board (on the Motherboard) video would be fine, to me though it would seem a shame to have the beast completely incapable of playing games, midrange nvidia or Ati based cards should be a good choice.

CASE: A thoroughly reviewed, 'thermally advantaged' Midi or Full Tower, Full tower is generally easier to get good airflow through if you intend to overclock, Midi towers can be good too, just take a bit more 'art'. I generally like thermaltake & Silverstone, but really both brands do vary in ugliness, build quality, and price (in a couple them rather high).

POWER SUPPLY:These newer models in many brands marked '80+ efficiency' all around 650 watts are generally very good, I like Seasonic. You may need more specialist guidance here.

Operating System: Being non-techie, I'd guess you wouldn't be going Linux, and I'd also guess you are building so you won't be buying a MAC :P That leaves pretty much Windows Right? *sigh* me too. A lot of people I know work with Vista and swear by it, many others swear at/about it, still others got Vista with their machines, used it awhile then decided to wipe it and buy XP.
Whichever you decide with new hardware it would probably make sense to go for a 64 bit version (Win XP x64, or Vista x64) though not by any means mandatory.

I've probably missed out many things, and other people's suggestions will differ, or improve on mine, though hopefully they could get you started on looking at the right areas to start.

Good Luck,

Jason

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"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.

John,

I'd agree with a lot of what Jason and Fred W said below, just a couple of notes:
If you get the P180 case (great case, I have 2) get the black one (P180B), as it has extra noise insulation that the silver/white one doesn't.
Seasonic S12, I also have a couple of those and like them.
I'd third the recommendation on the Q6600 over the QX6850, but if you must have a top level processor, the site you referenced has the QX9650 for only (euro symbol here) 16 more, so I'd take that step up if you must go FAST.
For heat sink, I have some Zalmans (pretty good) but the best one I have is the Thermalright Ultra-120, excellent heat sink.

-Dave

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John,

I'd agree with a lot of what Jason and Fred W said below, just a couple of notes:
If you get the P180 case (great case, I have 2) get the black one (P180B), as it has extra noise insulation that the silver/white one doesn't.
Seasonic S12, I also have a couple of those and like them.
I'd third the recommendation on the Q6600 over the QX6850, but if you must have a top level processor, the site you referenced has the QX9650 for only (euro symbol here) 16 more, so I'd take that step up if you must go FAST.
For heat sink, I have some Zalmans (pretty good) but the best one I have is the Thermalright Ultra-120, excellent heat sink.

-Dave

Don't disagree with anything recommended so far. I upgraded my rig from an E6400 to a Q6600 last week and am clocking that at 3150MHz (as of today - finally managed to stabilise it on Prime95). Although the QX are more flexible for overclocking I can't see them going much higher than this without going to water or phase cooling so my strategy would be to go with a Q6600 now and either use the savings for better RAM or bank it for an upgrade to a Penny in the New Year.

@Dave: Just out of interest - what's the noise level with the Ultra-120?

F.

[Edit]And, yes, the P180B is the one to go for. Great case.[/Edit]

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Fred -

The ultra-120 is absolutely silent since there's no fan!
But you can put whatever fan you want on it, I happen to have a Silverstone FM 121 on mine, and it's not quiet, but that's not an issue for me. The Zalmans are comparable at speed. I have a couple of 9700s and a 9500 of those.

-Dave

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The Great (CPU) Debate
Penryn & Phenom Make Their Pitches

If you’re new to the high-end computing scene, you might not know that Intel’s reign atop the CPU food chain hasn’t been uninterrupted. Sure, Intel’s Conroe architecture has beat AMD’s competitive offerings up and down the street for well over a year, forcing the latter company to hawk its processors at drastically reduced prices.

But a few years ago, AMD was top dog. Nothing out of Santa Clara could touch AMD’s line of Athlon 64 FX processors, which started when the FX-51 hit the scene in September 2003. (AMD’s line of regular Athlon 64 processors was also impressive.) During that span of almost three years, serious gamers and many other power users treated Intel’s processors like a country fried steak from Sizzler: serviceable in a pinch but a far cry from a Ruth’s Chris filet that true connoisseurs prefer. Intel still dominated the OEM market, but DIY system builders knew better. As Intel’s Pentium 4 clock speeds and temperatures spiraled through the roof (remember Prescott?), AMD’s Athlon 64 FXes held a steady lead.
Then, Intel’s Israeli team cooked up Conroe, and the rest is history.

Of course, AMD wasn’t exactly resting on its laurels when Intel shifted into the passing lane and tromped on the gas. Its FX-60 processor was the first dual-core Athlon 64 FX, and the company’s 4x4 platform gave AMD-powered rigs quad-core flavor (albeit via two CPU sockets for two dual-core processors). Still, Conroe-based chips were architecturally better, and advantages AMD had long enjoyed (such as an integrated memory controller) suddenly didn’t seem to matter as much.

Over the past year especially, AMD has been dogged by late product arrivals, financial woes, and the lack of identifiable ultra-high-end components. For example, AMD introduced the long-awaited Radeon HD 2900 XT as the “price/performance leader,” essentially ceding the pinnacle of performance to Nvidia. Its processor lines tell a similar story: AMD CPUs are reliable and perform well for the money, but for the PC enthusiast who has to have the very best, AMD’s options left a lot to be desired.

Now, as both chipmakers release new architectures, phrases such as “the stakes couldn’t be higher” suddenly become more believable than melodramatic—if you’re AMD, at any rate. Intel’s Penryn architecture makes marked improvements to Conroe, including a new high-k metal gate technology, which revolutionizes transistor production and breathes new life into Moore’s Law. Penryn chips also boast a new instruction set, among other enhancements. Find out more about the next evolution in Core 2 computing on page 62.


For AMD, its Phenom desktop processors and their underlying K10 Barcelona architecture mark an end to the FX era. With Phenom, AMD moves to a 65nm process and a native quad-core die. (Intel’s quad-core chips utilize two dual-core dies grafted onto a single platform.) Phenom processors also feature a different set of SSE4 instructions that aren’t present in Penryn. And close to Phenom’s launch, AMD added a new wrinkle by announcing tri-core Phenoms. It’s an interesting move in an industry dominated by even numbers; two years ago, we’d call the announcement genius, but with AMD struggling to rediscover its Midas touch, time (and sales) will tell. For a closer look at K10, turn to page 58.

Of course, white papers will only tell you so much. That’s why we’ve assembled two dream machines, each with Intel’s and AMD’s respective gladiators, and thrown them together for a—insert ultimate fighting/boxing/pro wrestling cliché here—on page 66. For Intel, it’s an opportunity to reassert its Core 2 architecture’s supremacy. For AMD, well, let’s just say AMD’s long on creditors and short on mulligans.

We’ve brought you the best DDR2 kits on the market; and now, we have done the same for DDR3 with the latest batch kits. The roundup on page 70 covers five kits from four manufacturers. But more importantly, it shows that some of the early growing pains DDR3 faced (high clocks at the expense of high latencies and prices) are starting to abate.

With these processors set to go toe-to-toe, the real Decision ’08 could end up being which CPU will be your next upgrade.

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LETS BEGIN IN 2010

If i was to start building a pure BOINC crunching beast of a computer, would you guys here be able to talk me through this in a simple "Step by step" manner?

I mean would you be able to talk me through this like you are explaining it to your mother. I'm not great with the tech jargon!

I can buy an "off the shelf" computer but i feel that i could get more "crunch for my money" if i buy the components and build my own "Pure beast of a crunching machine".

Will someone take me through the list of components needed to do this.

1) This is the CPU i am thinking of getting;
http://www.elara.ie/products/detailsfull.asp?productcode=ECE1395603

Its an Intel Core 2 Extreme QX6850 / 3 GHz processor with L2 Advanced Smart Cache - 8 MB

At €924, i could handle that price! Is this a good price? (€1= aprox $1.5)

What do i need to buy with it?

Can i Overclock that thing to run faster?

It would help if you write stuff in list form like this;

1) A box to put it in (Case)

2) Power supply

3) Mother board ( I think i need a mother board with LGA775 Socket, not sure though)

4) Disk drive

I am considering using that online shop http://www.elara.ie/ so what do you think of their prices? Am i about to be ripped off?

What else do i need guys? Try not to get too technical as I'm not great with the terminology.

John in Ireland.

John you can get a quad motherboard and cpu on ebay now for a reasonable price, and you would have to buy probably ddr2 ram too but the rest would be the standard similar to what you have now. If you need any help putting a pc together from scratch let me know ok

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http://timmygadget.blogspot.com/
http://www.mikesbawx.org/~timmygadget/

Funny that's what I recently added to my crunchers, a Q6850, and what a beast indeed!

See: http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu_2007.html

To build it, I used eBay! Yup, it was 2G's, all hardward installed, and all software also..The seller was http://myworld.ebay.com/allpczone

Good luck with your project!

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Hi John, it's been a month since your original post.

Any updates on how your getting on?

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Hi John, it's been a month since your original post.

Any updates on how your getting on?

I'm just waiting for funds to build up, i should have some cold hard cash in a short while.

I very much appreciate some of the cool tips people have posted here. I have read through this message several times.

This is a big risk for me, here are some of my thoughts!

I could buy a PC "Off the shelf" from Dell or PC World. This is the safe bet and and i have some "come back" if there is anything wrong!. But off the shelf is going to take from my "Solid Hard Crunch Power"!

If i build this thing, i could land myself in a situation where i lack the tech skills to fix this stuff myself.

Currently i am steering toward buying a PC "Off the Shelf" for the safety factor!

Funds should be good in 2 weeks time maybe.

John.

---

Hi John, it's been a month since your original post.

Any updates on how your getting on?

I'm just waiting for funds to build up, i should have some cold hard cash in a short while.

I very much appreciate some of the cool tips people have posted here. I have read through this message several times.

This is a big risk for me, here are some of my thoughts!

I could buy a PC "Off the shelf" from Dell or PC World. This is the safe bet and and i have some "come back" if there is anything wrong!. But off the shelf is going to take from my "Solid Hard Crunch Power"!

If i build this thing, i could land myself in a situation where i lack the tech skills to fix this stuff myself.

Currently i am steering toward buying a PC "Off the Shelf" for the safety factor!

Funds should be good in 2 weeks time maybe.

John.

As a half-way house between the full 'off the shelf' purchase and a complete home build, you could see if any local suppliers offer a motherboard bundle - MB/CPU/RAM/cooler assembled, tested and guaranteed. The rest of the build is relatively safe, and could be a useful learning experience.

Hi John, it's been a month since your original post.

Any updates on how your getting on?

I'm just waiting for funds to build up, i should have some cold hard cash in a short while.

I very much appreciate some of the cool tips people have posted here. I have read through this message several times.

This is a big risk for me, here are some of my thoughts!

I could buy a PC "Off the shelf" from Dell or PC World. This is the safe bet and and i have some "come back" if there is anything wrong!. But off the shelf is going to take from my "Solid Hard Crunch Power"!

If i build this thing, i could land myself in a situation where i lack the tech skills to fix this stuff myself.

Currently i am steering toward buying a PC "Off the Shelf" for the safety factor!

Funds should be good in 2 weeks time maybe.

John.

As a half-way house between the full 'off the shelf' purchase and a complete home build, you could see if any local suppliers offer a motherboard bundle - MB/CPU/RAM/cooler assembled, tested and guaranteed. The rest of the build is relatively safe, and could be a useful learning experience.

Richard,
That might just be a good option for me! I just feel i loosing if i buy the "All in One package, Dell" thing!

John.

---

Then again, if you take the time to self-build, you will be able to save money in the long term. You will also gain knowledge on how everything works.

I know how awesome it could look as I did not have any server experience several months ago, still not up to speed, but getting there.

It took several months just to complete it. I purchased kit, bit by bit, leaving the mobo/cpu till last. TOOK TIME to lay everything out, kit, manuals discs etc, then proceeded one step at a time.

I'll be honest, it was a terrific feeling when completed & o/s up & running.

Going the route Richard suggested will also save you time & money. I've found that off the self is not really effective unless you are prepared to pay top dollar for what you want.

Keep us posted on how you get on.

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Basically i want one of the machines that are on this list; Top SETI hosts

And i want it at a reasonable price!

How do i do that?

I want a PC that will clock 4000 + RAC a day!

{EDIT} 5000 or 6000 RAC a day if i can afford it!

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