Naturalization is a privilege, not a right.

Who says so?

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Naturalization is a privilege, not a right.

Who says so?

The laws in more than 200 countries.

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IMHO the problem in Germany is that you can't even address serious issues because you are instantly labeled a Nazi. It's a vicious circle: many people are fed up because problems with immigration and lack of integration are not addressed. This creates tension and results in violence - from my experience the violence of immigrant gangs simply don't make it into the news, which creates even more anger. When then violence against immigrants takes place the media is full of it and the journalists ride on a wave of political education. Just what the average citizen experiences is something different and people are therefore fed up by the one sided press and even more angry.

As long as the problems with a lack of integration won't be solved the situation won't change. All in all I guess Germany is over all a very tolerant country and racism is on par with other european countries, even though eastern Germany has indeed a problem because people are dissatisfied.

Anyways Europe is quit some fun. So many different cultures probably living in countries like Sweden, Switzerland, Denmark, Spain, Austria is best - what does the rest think?

For those that fail to assimilate or refuse to do so, give them a free ticket back to their homeland, since that is what they prefer.

I believe (but am not quite certain) the Germany has permanent guest workers - whose children and grandchildren are born in Germany but will never be able to become citizens. I believe (but again my information is a bit limited) that many of these that were born in Germany but have no path to citizenship are the malcontents. Now, where are you going to send them back to?

And you are right. Well, they are able but hindered.
No-one here in Germany automatically becomes a German citizen who is born here, except if at least one of the parents is German. That's #1
Resident aliens can of course apply for citizenship after several years of living and working here (and all permanent guest workers are what you call resident aliens), but no-one of the bureaucrats tells them that they have this right: they have to inform themselves (being hindered by the clerks), when, where and under which circumstances they can apply. That's #2
Many of these "resident aliens" are just so sick of their current bureaucratic fights, that they just don't want to struggle even more just for the line "Citizenship: German".
And so it comes that people live here as resident alien and apply for citizenship who are the 3rd generation of "resident aliens" in a family. They just can't be sent back to where their grandparents came from. Even their parents grew up here. Here they are the "foreigners" who "have to go home", while in the country of their grandfathers they are the "Germans", the "foreigners" again.
As long as these people don't have the German citizenship they have no "home". But: to get a replacement of a home they are "ghettoizing" themselves: instead of trying to become part of the town's mishmash, they move to where people of their own nationality are living, try to meet only their own nationality, live their own culture.
Of course they are malcontent.

Thorin,

Correct me if I'm wrong but my wife once told me that since her father was a German citizen, she was eligible to apply for German citizenship. Is this true even though she was born in the US?

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Hopefully the cosmos is not trying to reverse the charges.
Moderation in all things.

IMHO the problem in Germany is that you can't even address serious issues because you are instantly labeled a Nazi. It's a vicious circle: many people are fed up because problems with immigration and lack of integration are not addressed. This creates tension and results in violence - from my experience the violence of immigrant gangs simply don't make it into the news, which creates even more anger. When then violence against immigrants takes place the media is full of it and the journalists ride on a wave of political education. Just what the average citizen experiences is something different and people are therefore fed up by the one sided press and even more angry.

As long as the problems with a lack of integration won't be solved the situation won't change. All in all I guess Germany is over all a very tolerant country and racism is on par with other european countries, even though eastern Germany has indeed a problem because people are dissatisfied.

Anyways Europe is quit some fun. So many different cultures probably living in countries like Sweden, Switzerland, Denmark, Spain, Austria is best - what does the rest think?

For those that fail to assimilate or refuse to do so, give them a free ticket back to their homeland, since that is what they prefer.

I believe (but am not quite certain) the Germany has permanent guest workers - whose children and grandchildren are born in Germany but will never be able to become citizens. I believe (but again my information is a bit limited) that many of these that were born in Germany but have no path to citizenship are the malcontents. Now, where are you going to send them back to?

And you are right. Well, they are able but hindered.
No-one here in Germany automatically becomes a German citizen who is born here, except if at least one of the parents is German. That's #1
Resident aliens can of course apply for citizenship after several years of living and working here (and all permanent guest workers are what you call resident aliens), but no-one of the bureaucrats tells them that they have this right: they have to inform themselves (being hindered by the clerks), when, where and under which circumstances they can apply. That's #2
Many of these "resident aliens" are just so sick of their current bureaucratic fights, that they just don't want to struggle even more just for the line "Citizenship: German".
And so it comes that people live here as resident alien and apply for citizenship who are the 3rd generation of "resident aliens" in a family. They just can't be sent back to where their grandparents came from. Even their parents grew up here. Here they are the "foreigners" who "have to go home", while in the country of their grandfathers they are the "Germans", the "foreigners" again.
As long as these people don't have the German citizenship they have no "home". But: to get a replacement of a home they are "ghettoizing" themselves: instead of trying to become part of the town's mishmash, they move to where people of their own nationality are living, try to meet only their own nationality, live their own culture.
Of course they are malcontent.

Thorin,

Correct me if I'm wrong but my wife once told me that since her father was a German citizen, she was eligible to apply for German citizenship. Is this true even though she was born in the US?

AFAIK that's true. She would have a double citizenship then, or could choose which one she wants. I don't know that part exactly, but am quite sure that it'll be a double citizenship. If I ever immigrate to the US, and go past the resident alien state, and eventually get an US citizenship, I won't lose my German citizenship either, AFAIK.

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Account frozen...

IMHO the problem in Germany is that you can't even address serious issues because you are instantly labeled a Nazi. It's a vicious circle: many people are fed up because problems with immigration and lack of integration are not addressed. This creates tension and results in violence - from my experience the violence of immigrant gangs simply don't make it into the news, which creates even more anger. When then violence against immigrants takes place the media is full of it and the journalists ride on a wave of political education. Just what the average citizen experiences is something different and people are therefore fed up by the one sided press and even more angry.

As long as the problems with a lack of integration won't be solved the situation won't change. All in all I guess Germany is over all a very tolerant country and racism is on par with other european countries, even though eastern Germany has indeed a problem because people are dissatisfied.

Anyways Europe is quit some fun. So many different cultures probably living in countries like Sweden, Switzerland, Denmark, Spain, Austria is best - what does the rest think?

For those that fail to assimilate or refuse to do so, give them a free ticket back to their homeland, since that is what they prefer.

I believe (but am not quite certain) the Germany has permanent guest workers - whose children and grandchildren are born in Germany but will never be able to become citizens. I believe (but again my information is a bit limited) that many of these that were born in Germany but have no path to citizenship are the malcontents. Now, where are you going to send them back to?

And you are right. Well, they are able but hindered.
No-one here in Germany automatically becomes a German citizen who is born here, except if at least one of the parents is German. That's #1
Resident aliens can of course apply for citizenship after several years of living and working here (and all permanent guest workers are what you call resident aliens), but no-one of the bureaucrats tells them that they have this right: they have to inform themselves (being hindered by the clerks), when, where and under which circumstances they can apply. That's #2
Many of these "resident aliens" are just so sick of their current bureaucratic fights, that they just don't want to struggle even more just for the line "Citizenship: German".
And so it comes that people live here as resident alien and apply for citizenship who are the 3rd generation of "resident aliens" in a family. They just can't be sent back to where their grandparents came from. Even their parents grew up here. Here they are the "foreigners" who "have to go home", while in the country of their grandfathers they are the "Germans", the "foreigners" again.
As long as these people don't have the German citizenship they have no "home". But: to get a replacement of a home they are "ghettoizing" themselves: instead of trying to become part of the town's mishmash, they move to where people of their own nationality are living, try to meet only their own nationality, live their own culture.
Of course they are malcontent.

Thorin,

Correct me if I'm wrong but my wife once told me that since her father was a German citizen, she was eligible to apply for German citizenship. Is this true even though she was born in the US?

AFAIK that's true. She would have a double citizenship then, or could choose which one she wants. I don't know that part exactly, but am quite sure that it'll be a double citizenship. If I ever immigrate to the US, and go past the resident alien state, and eventually get an US citizenship, I won't lose my German citizenship either, AFAIK.

Thanks. Germany looks better and better if the elections go south next year.

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Hopefully the cosmos is not trying to reverse the charges.
Moderation in all things.

Why do you like Colin Powell? I have yet to hear a reason.

Why would you want to move to Germany, Jon?

I will not click links to watch propaganda on YouTube. However it's customary to not simply post links but to explain a bit of their content as well to provide context.

What makes anyone hear think that a Democrat can actually get a troop drawdown accomplished? Why do you not think Bush isn't going to begin this in early next year anyway?

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Why do you like Colin Powell? I have yet to hear a reason.

Why would you want to move to Germany, Jon?

I will not click links to watch propaganda on YouTube. However it's customary to not simply post links but to explain a bit of their content as well to provide context.

What makes anyone hear think that a Democrat can actually get a troop drawdown accomplished? Why do you not think Bush isn't going to begin this in early next year anyway?

Why would I want to move to Germany? I think it would be a kick. Good food, Good beer, Good cars, Great roads, No Republicans or Democrats, the list is endless. The only down side is I don't speak German.

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Hopefully the cosmos is not trying to reverse the charges.
Moderation in all things.

Why do you like Colin Powell? I have yet to hear a reason.

Why would you want to move to Germany, Jon?

I will not click links to watch propaganda on YouTube. However it's customary to not simply post links but to explain a bit of their content as well to provide context.

What makes anyone hear think that a Democrat can actually get a troop drawdown accomplished? Why do you not think Bush isn't going to begin this in early next year anyway?

Why would I want to move to Germany? I think it would be a kick. Good food, Good beer, Good cars, Great roads, No Republicans or Democrats, the list is endless. The only down side is I don't speak German.

You'll learn it quite quick as soon as you get a grip. There are many English words in our language. And you'll even see many brands you know from home, so the culture clash won't be that awful...

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Why do you like Colin Powell? I have yet to hear a reason.

Why would you want to move to Germany, Jon?

I will not click links to watch propaganda on YouTube. However it's customary to not simply post links but to explain a bit of their content as well to provide context.

What makes anyone hear think that a Democrat can actually get a troop drawdown accomplished? Why do you not think Bush isn't going to begin this in early next year anyway?

Why would I want to move to Germany? I think it would be a kick. Good food, Good beer, Good cars, Great roads, No Republicans or Democrats, the list is endless. The only down side is I don't speak German.

You'll learn it quite quick as soon as you get a grip. There are many English words in our language. And you'll even see many brands you know from home, so the culture clash won't be that awful...

I did forget one other downside. I'd be closer to France. Bummer. ;)

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Hopefully the cosmos is not trying to reverse the charges.
Moderation in all things.

Last Goodbye: US Soldiers from Iraq War:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZwnDVsbgWc


.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Last Goodbye: US Soldiers from Iraq War:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZwnDVsbgWc


.

Their (indirect) murderers still sit in Washington and "wash [their] hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood" of these young persons.

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Last Goodbye: US Soldiers from Iraq War:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZwnDVsbgWc


.

Their (indirect) murderers still sit in Washington and "wash [their] hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood" of these young persons.

What a mean spirited thing to say....

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Last Goodbye: US Soldiers from Iraq War:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZwnDVsbgWc


.

Their (indirect) murderers still sit in Washington and "wash [their] hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood" of these young persons.

What a mean spirited thing to say....

Why? I call not only a person a murderer who kill others just on a whim, but also who send others into sure death just on a whim.
They want fighting? They should go take on a uniform and weapon themselves, and fight ahead of the front-line then, in front of all those who have been brain-washed and sent to die by them.

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Correct!

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Last Goodbye: US Soldiers from Iraq War:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZwnDVsbgWc


.

Their (indirect) murderers still sit in Washington and "wash [their] hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood" of these young persons.

What a mean spirited thing to say....

Why? I call not only a person a murderer who kill others just on a whim, but also who send others into sure death just on a whim.
They want fighting? They should go take on a uniform and weapon themselves, and fight ahead of the front-line then, in front of all those who have been brain-washed and sent to die by them.

Uh huh. Is that an intentionally stupid suggestion?

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Last Goodbye: US Soldiers from Iraq War:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZwnDVsbgWc


.

Their (indirect) murderers still sit in Washington and "wash [their] hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood" of these young persons.

What a mean spirited thing to say....

Why? I call not only a person a murderer who kill others just on a whim, but also who send others into sure death just on a whim.
They want fighting? They should go take on a uniform and weapon themselves, and fight ahead of the front-line then, in front of all those who have been brain-washed and sent to die by them.

Agree, to a point...but they are not only political leaders.

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Account frozen...

Last Goodbye: US Soldiers from Iraq War:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZwnDVsbgWc


.

Their (indirect) murderers still sit in Washington and "wash [their] hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood" of these young persons.

What a mean spirited thing to say....

Why? I call not only a person a murderer who kill others just on a whim, but also who send others into sure death just on a whim.
They want fighting? They should go take on a uniform and weapon themselves, and fight ahead of the front-line then, in front of all those who have been brain-washed and sent to die by them.

Agree, to a point...but they are not only political leaders.

As soon as they do politics most of their time they are also politicians, no matter if they are part of a government, and no matter what profession they pretend to be.
There is no person who can honestly say to be totally unpolitical, and everyone who tries to teach others about an opinion, conviction or belief has an agenda, even a political one...

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Account frozen...

Last Goodbye: US Soldiers from Iraq War:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZwnDVsbgWc


.

Their (indirect) murderers still sit in Washington and "wash [their] hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood" of these young persons.

What a mean spirited thing to say....

Why? I call not only a person a murderer who kill others just on a whim, but also who send others into sure death just on a whim.
They want fighting? They should go take on a uniform and weapon themselves, and fight ahead of the front-line then, in front of all those who have been brain-washed and sent to die by them.

Agree, to a point...but they are not only political leaders.

As soon as they do politics most of their time they are also politicians, no matter if they are part of a government, and no matter what profession they pretend to be.
There is no person who can honestly say to be totally unpolitical, and everyone who tries to teach others about an opinion, conviction or belief has an agenda, even a political one...

That seems fairly reasonable...

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