Locust...

Perfect analogy!


.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Exactly. They aren't willing to work with unions. Walmart isn't a union shop here, either, just like Whole Foods and the overwhelming majority of corporations. It's a waste of money.

<agreeing with Rush>
Of course Walmart is a non-union company. If they allowed unions, the prices on the goods they sell would go up... WAY up. In fact, it is the Walmart employee's best interests that Walmart remain non-union, even discounting the layoffs that would happen due to Walmart employing fewer people. When unions enter a workplace, in addition to higher wages and better benefits for the workers, unions also introduce economic inefficiencies. Walmart would have to raise prices by a factor that would be somewhat higher than the proportional amount suggested by the wage increase, just to counter those inefficiencies. Since the bulk of Walmart employees likely have to do the bulk of their shopping at Walmart (since Walmart is about the lowest-priced place to shop, and Walmart employees tend to be on the low side of the wage scale), they would in fact LOSE ground if they unionized, as would all the other low-end wage earners that shop there because of the low prices.

Remember, what the employee thinks they should be paid just doesn't matter. The only opinion on the subject that matters is that of the employer. If an employee wants a bigger paycheck (and who doesn't??), they have three choices.

They can work harder and hope to qualify for a merit-raise or promotion. They can try to find another employer that will pay them more for doing the same job. Or, they can improve their skill-set through education and qualify for a better-paying job. Note that the onus here is on the employee, not the employer.

If there is someone that is 'stuck' doing low-paying jobs, it is their own fault (unless they are mentally disabled, or something similar). They have made a series of poor life-choices. No matter how 'terrible' a public school system is, a well-motivated student can learn sufficiently to get them into college. If the kid decides to spend their K-12 years goofing off and hanging out with friends instead of studying, it is their own d**m fault if they are screwed later in life. There is no excuse today to not go to college. Funds are available to do so, no matter what your background and/or circumstances. If all else fails, they can even join the military and serve out a hitch and get a lot of money for college as one of their benefits. Or you can put yourself through college by working. Now, you may have to deny yourself a 'living large' lifestyle to be able to afford it, but it CAN (and IS) being done. Study instead of party now, and you will be a LOT better off in the long run.

It is NEVER too late to improve yourself through education, you just have to WANT it bad enough and be willing to do what it takes. If you are NOT willing to do what it takes to improve yourself, then please just suck it up and work 2 or 3 of the only type of jobs you will be qualified to do: unskilled/manual labor -- somebody has got to do those jobs, and YOU just volunteered. Get used to asking people 'paper or plastic?' and/or 'do you want fries with that?'

Oh, but it does drive jobs overseas. That's a real good plan, right? Drive the costs up so high that it makes more sense to replace locals with robots and plants overseas? Did you ever wonder why BMW built their Spartanburg plant over here in the U.S.? Think that was maybe because the costs were too high in Germany?

Lol... This reminds me of one of the MAIN reasons why all the EU stuff got pushed through in Europe... So that companies in the richer, more developed countries in Western Europe (with relatively HIGH wages) could send jobs over to some of the lesser developed countries in Eastern Europe (with MUCH lower wages), yet still sell their manufactured goods in Western Europe without paying import duties 'as if they were locally made'...

Makes me laugh nowadays whenever someone in Europe takes US corporations to task for 'exporting' jobs to China/Mexico/etc. to get cheaper labor. Like they weren't doing the same d**m thing...

It literally supplies billions to needy people. Billions.

And Govt subsidy/welfare supplies MORE billions to the needy.

People bitch about paying taxes because they are FORCED to pay for things they don't support and they loose choice over the matter.
Thorin wants to force people to pay for his precious health care system but he always evades the fact that others want to force him to pay for their precious weapons and war. That's why people bitch about paying taxes.

Let me guess - you demand that the poor pay taxes to pay for the Police forces that protect the property of the wealthy, don't you, but regard paying taxes to pay for decent schooling or healthcare for the poor as unfair 'communism'.

No, it means that they would have more to give away than the now do, it means that they probably don't give as much as they would because "welfare" takes care of it, et cetera.

Except that History proves your hypothesis to be inaccurate.

In countries with NO welfare systems, the rich pay LESS to charity than they would pay to the needy under taxpayer-funded systems.

A PERSON *can* be altruistic, philanthropic, etc, but PEOPLE, en masse, are greedy, self-interested, evil scum.

This is why we have Laws to prevent kidnapping, rape, and theft.

Or do you also claim that if those prohibitions were repealed that people's 'inherent good nature' would mean that none of the above actions would occur?

You said "'oh SO productive/Value-adding' entities called 'Shareholders' get pissed off, because they demand the MAXIMUM cut that the employer can possibly provide," which means they do that to all employees, which means accountants too.

I picked accountants as an example to note why your silly comment fails.

OK, to go back to your 'Economics 101' jibe, have you ever heard of 'Supply' and 'Demand'?

There are more people than there are jobs - so the supply of labour is high, so employers DON'T have to pay a high wage in unregulated Markets.
And, guesswhat? They DON'T.

This enables Employers/Shareholders to make HUGE scads of Profit by underpaying their workers.

Also, I'm curious to hear your claims for the value or productivity gains that Shareholders 'add', and the mechanism by which they 'add' them.
Please enlighten me.

Exactly. Ever wonder why that is, rocket scientist? Maybe their skills are in high demand? Unlike those of taxi drivers or people that do piecework?

Erm, the answer to your first point above was in my statement, you numpty.
Ain't got the money to buy a good education - then you will remain poor FOR EVER - and so will your kids.

Your own Govt's stats for American Society show that it has become progressively more and more unequal since the Reagan administration, and that it is now HARDER to pursue the 'American Dream' than at any time since the 1960's.

Born poor now? You'll ALWAYS be like that.

Also, your own Govt's stats ALSO show that the average American income has, in real terms, FALLEN since the 1970's - whilst the rich have seen *their* incomes multiply umpteen times over.

Oh, and nice try to 'shift the discussion' away from the statistics that show that your preferred model of scoiety produces ghastly dystopias.

'Such' a shame that it didn't work.

How are the drug abuse, illiteracy, teen pregnancy and violent crime stats for America?

How are they for Scandinavia?

You're right. Pay them whatever you wish. Open a taxi company and pay them as much as you want. Oh, you won't? Odd.

Well, funnily enough, I am NOT a Taxi Company, or a large metanational corporation. Gee, whodathunkit?

Also, if you READ this thread, you'll see that *I* am the one who said "pay the Taxi drivers what they ask for".

They get paid, what they agree to join for. Just like everyone else, they get paid what they agree to work for.

And when all the OTHER jobs available have been outsourced to more 'competitive' Third World economies, what else they gonna do?
STARVE to death?

I see that you DO think that the poor should be forced into your service at slave rates.

Ummmm, I'm not willing to pay them ONE THIN DIME. Why? Because I don't own a taxi company. I use them when I find them convenient. But that driver doesn't get to pick the rates, the gov't does.

Same (your unwillingness to pay 'em one thin dime) goes for Doctors, Nurses and Firemen too, I bet. You've already said that you don't think that the Armed Forces deserve decent pay.

But I BET you think the Cops should get good money, don'tcha?

Which is not the case in the U.S. There are very rich people here, yes, and the poor have color TVs, mobile phones, microwaves and the rule of law.

Check out your rates of Violent Crime, Illiteracy, Drug Abuse, Teen Pregnancy among the poor of your country, and then get back to us.
Rule of Law? In your inner cities?
Don't make me laugh.

Notice how the whole world ISN'T scrambling to get into those countries?

Gee, tiny states that are hard to get to (but which DO, per capita, take in a large number of people fleeing oppression), or the richest country in the World?

To which they are lured with the same false promises that drew the seventeenth century's dispossessed to London - and then forced them to work illegally in exploitative Black Market conditions.

Ask the Hispanic populations of your south-western States about this.

Ever wonder what would happen to one of those countries in particular if Nokia ever failed....?

So then, genius, HOW do you 'explain' the fact that they had the best Quality of Life BEFORE mobile phones existed.

Also, I'd aver that the MAJORITY of people in your country pay a bloody high price for the idle luxury afforded to your hereditarily-wealthy class by neoconservative (i.e. Corporatist) economic policy.
(See those crime etc stats again.)

You are turning into Dickensian Britain.
Rapidly.

But you personally are 'alright, Jack', so screw everyone else, eh?

I'm not shouting, and I haven't said anything that was counter-factual.

Apart from your statements about Charity, and the 'benefits' of a non-regulated economy....

You and your neocon Fellow-Travellers usually merely IMPLY that your desired Economic System produces the best possible outcome for everyone - and usually you don't actually do THAT, to be fair - you just calumniate your opponents.

Then again, you personally DO claim that the poor 'have it easy' in the USA.

And you also refuse to check out the Quality of Life stats.
Probably because you are aware that they UTTERLY invalidate your claims.

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Veni, Vidi, Bibi.

The strike in NY is driven not by wages but by mandates for technology. The city is insisting that the cabbies install GPS systems so that they can be found if the need arrises, they are also insisting that they install credit card readers.

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BOINC WIKI

After all is said and done, wealthy people pay many many times the taxes that Low income and poor preople pay. They not only pay a disproportionately higher tax rate they pay it on their income which is many times that of poverty level individuals.

A person making $40,000 per year with a wife nd two kids will pay just about zero income tax. A person (family --probably two earners) making $300,000 will probably pay at least $100,000 in spite of all his deductions. His home will also support local schools to the tune of another $5,000 to $10,000 per year.

So the bulk of taxes are paid by wealthy people. Most are happy to build infra structure for the good of their neighbors in the area and their country. Though stories abound about millionaires skirting taxes--the top 10% of earners probably pay 50% of all taxes or more.

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One more time: We've had this discussion before and you didn't respond, but I'll put it here too. An example: There are plenty of empty auto factories. If those workers don't need the managers, or the shareholders, or the exchange, why aren't they running those plants themselves? Why doesn't the United Auto Workers Union and the AFL-CIO, instead of just bitching about their rapidly declining numbers, just build and sell cars themselves? What are they waiting for? There are hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of former members that could be building cars. Why aren't they? Why doesn't the UAW just stop bitching and hire all of those guys and pay them more than they were demanding from GM? I mean, nothing is stopping them now, all the managers, shareholders, and brokers are out of the way, so it should be easy, right?

Well, the example of car factories: Sure they stand empty, but still they are the property of the company which closed them down - though it were just to take it under own management and resume work there. And even the unions could get a place to rise a new plant, and get the machines to build cars: the former employers of the car workers would give false statements that these cars were built by industrial espionage, using the "insider information" of their former employees. And they will get away with these false accusations because they have more and better lawyers.

Dude, you are avoiding the question. The point was not for them to build ripoff GMs or Fords (although that happens every day in China and the big companies are nearly powerless to stop it), the point was for them to build and sell their own cars. Like you said, they don't need managers, shareholders, or brokers, so what are they waiting for?

The big companies do everything to make such things like union-owned factories never become true.

Absolutely nothing is stopping them. If the UAW wanted to buy a factory tomorrow, they could. If they wanted to buy the machinery from Mitsubishi tomorrow, they could. If they wanted to buy the parts from any number of manufacturers, they could. Nothing is stopping them, certainly not other auto manufacturers. They can just build their own--yet they don't. Oh, and rest assured, the UAW can afford their own very expensive attorneys...

German constitution, Article 14, paragraph 2: Property entails obligations. Its use shall also serve the public good.

Wow, another meaningless quote. Since we're posting meaningless quotes: "My cat's breath smells like cat food." --Ralph Wiggum.

They have toothpaste for that now.

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Hopefully the cosmos is not trying to reverse the charges.
Moderation in all things.

The strike in NY is driven not by wages but by mandates for technology. The city is insisting that the cabbies install GPS systems so that they can be found if the need arrises, they are also insisting that they install credit card readers.

Well what the heck is wrong with that? The cops can find you if some punk rolls you and leaves you for dead and credit card readers mean no large amounts of cash begging to be stolen.

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Hopefully the cosmos is not trying to reverse the charges.
Moderation in all things.

The strike in NY is driven not by wages but by mandates for technology. The city is insisting that the cabbies install GPS systems so that they can be found if the need arrises, they are also insisting that they install credit card readers.

Well what the heck is wrong with that? The cops can find you if some punk rolls you and leaves you for dead and credit card readers mean no large amounts of cash begging to be stolen.

They could also be tracked for taking a passenger for a "ride."

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Account frozen...

After all is said and done, wealthy people pay many many times the taxes that Low income and poor preople pay. They not only pay a disproportionately higher tax rate they pay it on their income which is many times that of poverty level individuals.

A person making $40,000 per year with a wife nd two kids will pay just about zero income tax. A person (family --probably two earners) making $300,000 will probably pay at least $100,000 in spite of all his deductions. His home will also support local schools to the tune of another $5,000 to $10,000 per year.

So the bulk of taxes are paid by wealthy people. Most are happy to build infra structure for the good of their neighbors in the area and their country. Though stories abound about millionaires skirting taxes--the top 10% of earners probably pay 50% of all taxes or more.

Um, wife, one kid, about 55K yearly income, about 6K paid in taxes last year. I would love to pay zero tax but that's not gonna happen.

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Hopefully the cosmos is not trying to reverse the charges.
Moderation in all things.

The strike in NY is driven not by wages but by mandates for technology. The city is insisting that the cabbies install GPS systems so that they can be found if the need arrises, they are also insisting that they install credit card readers.

Well what the heck is wrong with that? The cops can find you if some punk rolls you and leaves you for dead and credit card readers mean no large amounts of cash begging to be stolen.

They could also be tracked for taking a passenger for a "ride."

You mean the infamous "short cut" that takes you 30 blocks round Robin Hood's barn?

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Hopefully the cosmos is not trying to reverse the charges.
Moderation in all things.

Now this is the Law of the Jungle -- as old and as true as the sky;
And the Wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the Wolf that shall break it must die.

As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk the Law runneth forward and back --
For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.



.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Heh heh. That's right Thorin. Very good. Very good. Now, very slowly, let's take that a step further... when one lowers the costs (oh, say, ummmm, let's say by building a plant in Spartanburg, for example), what do you think happens to profits?

That's easy. Firstly, the company gets money from the state/community/whatever because building a plant means jobs. Then, the first jobs are mostly subsidized (at least for a certain amount of time) so that the company don't have to pay them at all by themselves. That means their already high profit climbs to ridiculous heights which still is not enough for these greedy locusts.

You know, I'm beginning to realize that I can't help you. You just want to believe your silly ideology at any costs, no matter what. You are either incapable of responding to arguments, or you avoid them.

The "company" (and that could be you or the UAW (and the UAW has the money, rest assured)) can borrow money from a bank, and goes from there. Those jobs aren't subsidized at all, for any amount of time. But even if they were, nothing is stopping the UAW from doing it on their own. Nothing at all. You've said it, they don't need managers, stockholders, or the market. What the hell are they waiting for?

Build and sell the damn hell ass cars. Quit skrewing around and just do it.

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Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

Nobody asked for your help...

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Account frozen...

It literally supplies billions to needy people. Billions.

And Govt subsidy/welfare supplies MORE billions to the needy.

The point was that you asked about why people bitch about taxes, and I explained it. People would give more if they weren't already pummeled by taxes because they could choose where their money went.

Let me guess - you demand that the poor pay taxes to pay for the Police forces that protect the property of the wealthy, don't you, but regard paying taxes to pay for decent schooling or healthcare for the poor as unfair 'communism'.

No. You're dead wrong. But because you think that must be the way I think, you post this idiocy as if it were fact.

I don't "demand" that anyone pay taxes, your precious gov't does. As I said, that means that some people want to force people to pay for their precious health care system, but they always evade the fact that others want to force people to pay for their precious weapons and war.

Except that History proves your hypothesis to be inaccurate.

In countries with NO welfare systems, the rich pay LESS to charity than they would pay to the needy under taxpayer-funded systems.

You would have to be far more specific here... I would bet that such countries with no welfare systems whatsoever are deadly poor. That isn't the case in the U.S.

A PERSON *can* be altruistic, philanthropic, etc, but PEOPLE, en masse, are greedy, self-interested, evil scum.

This is why we have Laws to prevent kidnapping, rape, and theft.

Or do you also claim that if those prohibitions were repealed that people's 'inherent good nature' would mean that none of the above actions would occur?

No, Brainiac, did it ever cross your mind that there are actual, rational, purposes for gov't? Actual rational roles that gov't can take that require taxes?

Your stupid examples are just examples of the initiation of force or fraud, which, in a principled society, are wrong.

OK, to go back to your 'Economics 101' jibe, have you ever heard of 'Supply' and 'Demand'?

There are more people than there are jobs - so the supply of labour is high, so employers DON'T have to pay a high wage in unregulated Markets.
And, guesswhat? They DON'T.

This enables Employers/Shareholders to make HUGE scads of Profit by underpaying their workers.

Jeebus. Dude, the U.S. has been near "full employment" for decades. Which means that the unemployment rate is natural for the number of people here. Meaning that, there are always going to be X number of people getting fired, quitting, changing jobs, changing careers, getting laid off, going back to school, retiring, et cetera.

The supply of labor in the U.S. has long since been teetering on over employment, i.e., there simply aren't enough people in the U.S. to supply the amount of jobs available. Which, as noted in a previous post, is why 97+% percent of hourly workers were making MORE than the federal minimum wage.

I used accountants to demonstrate that companies cannot always "underpay" their workers, because those workers will just go somewhere else that pays better.

Also, I'm curious to hear your claims for the value or productivity gains that Shareholders 'add', and the mechanism by which they 'add' them.
Please enlighten me.

I'm not "enlightening [you]" per se, I've having to explain the most childish and simple aspects of basic economics, because it seems you can't learn them on your own.

Shareholders do not generally add productivity to a corporation. They do, however, provide capital for the company to operate. Take the UAW example I provided, either the UAW buys and operates those plants on their own, in which case the members of the UAW would be the shareholders that provided the capital. Or, the UAW would take out a loan from the bank, in which case the shareholders of the bank (those that have accounts there) would provide the capital to get the company started. That's what they provide, operating capital, not productivity gains.

Erm, the answer to your first point above was in my statement, you numpty. Ain't got the money to buy a good education - then you will remain poor FOR EVER - and so will your kids.

Sheesh. If you don't have the money to pay cash for an education, you borrow it from the federal gov't. Or you serve in the military and get it tuition free, or you use work-study programs. Or you take out private loans. Either way, the money is out there to get a good education. If you aren't capable of filling out a few forms, then the education wouldn't have helped you anyway.

Your own Govt's stats for American Society show that it has become progressively more and more unequal since the Reagan administration, and that it is now HARDER to pursue the 'American Dream' than at any time since the 1960's.

Born poor now? You'll ALWAYS be like that.

Good luck with that attitude. You do whatever you think is best. It doesn't matter what anyone else earns, ever. You do your best with your life, as best you can. It doesn't matter that Oprah, Michael Moore, or Babs Streisand make 1000 times what you do, because they aren't taking it from you.

Also, your own Govt's stats ALSO show that the average American income has, in real terms, FALLEN since the 1970's - whilst the rich have seen *their* incomes multiply umpteen times over.

A) The rich always get richer, duh. They have money to invest. B) The average American income *may* (I have no idea, though it isn't likely) have fallen a bit in real dollars. You can blame the gov't for that, because the U.S. bankrolls it's debt on the backs of the rest of the world, which means our standard of living is artificially inflated. Which means they are getting tired of it (hello Euro) and U.S. incomes may stabilize. And that means they may go lower.

Oh, and nice try to 'shift the discussion' away from the statistics that show that your preferred model of scoiety produces ghastly dystopias.

'Such' a shame that it didn't work.

I have no idea what you mean. If I made such an argument, you would have to quote me. Good luck with that.

How are the drug abuse, illiteracy, teen pregnancy and violent crime stats for America? How are they for Scandinavia?

Well, you should look at the rape stats for Canada. Or the suicide rates in other parts of the world. Other countries have their problems just as the U.S. does. C'est la vie.

Well, funnily enough, I am NOT a Taxi Company, or a large metanational corporation. Gee, whodathunkit?

What a surprise. You aren't willing or capable of paying them, yet you expect others to do so on your whim. You can probably understand why they don't care what you think, and don't do as you wish. Hint: it's the same reason you don't care what I think and wouldn't do as I wish...

Also, if you READ this thread, you'll see that *I* am the one who said "pay the Taxi drivers what they ask for".

Well then, you had better beg your precious gov't to stop limiting their pay. Because that's who limits their pay, BY LAW.

They get paid, what they agree to join for. Just like everyone else, they get paid what they agree to work for.

And when all the OTHER jobs available have been outsourced to more 'competitive' Third World economies, what else they gonna do? STARVE to death?

I see that you DO think that the poor should be forced into your service at slave rates.

What you see is your own, almost illiterate and ignorant statements. I wouldn't limit taxi drivers at all. I wouldn't set their rates by law, nor would I limit the number of medallions at all.

No one will ever be able to make all the "OTHER jobs available ... outsourced to more 'competitive' Third World economies," because that's not how the system works. I mean, what happened to all the blacksmiths and the carriage builders? They do other things because the system doesn't value their skills anymore. They didn't all just lie down and die, they did other things.

Same (your unwillingness to pay 'em one thin dime) goes for Doctors, Nurses and Firemen too, I bet. You've already said that you don't think that the Armed Forces deserve decent pay.

Can you even read? I mean, can you understand simple printed words on the screen in front of you? I said that the "Armed Forces" (of which I am a veteran) work for what they agree to work for. Just like I did. It's an all volunteer force, either they sign up, or they don't. If they do, they agree to work for the pay they get. If they don't, they don't.

But I BET you think the Cops should get good money, don'tcha?

You ever tire of being dead wrong? I mean, that makes your position look terrible, and makes you look even worse. I think cops, just like noted above, agree to work for whatever they work for. "Good money," "bad money," "whatever money," means nothing, because each individual cop (doctor, nurse, fireman) decides for themselves whether the pay is worth it or not. That isn't anyone's decision but their own.

Which is not the case in the U.S. There are very rich people here, yes, and the poor have color TVs, mobile phones, microwaves and the rule of law.

Check out your rates of Violent Crime, Illiteracy, Drug Abuse, Teen Pregnancy among the poor of your country, and then get back to us.
Rule of Law? In your inner cities? Don't make me laugh.

What do you want me to say? I mean, did you have an argument? You can pay these people whatever the hell you wish. If you aren't willing to, for whatever reason, then you can understand why others aren't willing to either.

And yes, whether you like it or not, everyone in the U.S. (any country that has it) benefits from the rule of law because even in inner cities, it ISN'T anarchy.

Notice how the whole world ISN'T scrambling to get into those countries?

Gee, tiny states that are hard to get to (but which DO, per capita, take in a large number of people fleeing oppression), or the richest country in the World?

Funny, you are capable of noting that this is the richest country in the world, yet you seem incapable of understanding why these people don't run like hell to these welfare states that you seem so enamored of. I mean, why don't they just take all of them? Per capita shouldn't matter, could it be those countries cannot afford them? If so, why is that?

I mean, why is this the richest country in the world? Is it because of the handouts? Is it because the gov't sets limits on what the cabbies can earn? Or are there other reasons....?

To which they are lured with the same false promises that drew the seventeenth century's dispossessed to London - and then forced them to work illegally in exploitative Black Market conditions.

Ask the Hispanic populations of your south-western States about this.

This is funny... ever wonder why those Hispanic populations, and this is important, LEFT THEIR NATIVE LANDS TO COME HERE? It is because the U.S. is full of misery and death, or is it because the opportunities here were BETTER than the place they left? Why didn't they go to Nokialand, huh?

So then, genius, HOW do you 'explain' the fact that they had the best Quality of Life BEFORE mobile phones existed.

I don't think they do have the "best Quality of Life" as is evidenced by the fact that few, if any, people fight like hell to get in there. What they do have is nearly the highest tax rates on the planet. Which means, of course, that they pay dearly for those so-called benefits. They aren't free, they just work more than half their lives to provide benefits for someone else. You may find that cool, most people on earth do not, that's why they aren't fighting to move there.

You may think they have the highest quality of life, but there are a LOT of people that think the U.S. has the highest quality of life.

Also, I'd aver that the MAJORITY of people in your country pay a bloody high price for the idle luxury afforded to your hereditarily-wealthy class by neoconservative (i.e. Corporatist) economic policy. (See those crime etc stats again.)

I have no idea what this means. The "rich" in the U.S., as defined as those in the top quintile by the U.S. Dept of Labor overwhelmingly earn their money by working. There are few indeed of those that inherit their wealth. The number of Paris Hiltons are rare compared to number of those that earn their riches.

You are turning into Dickensian Britain. Rapidly.

If that's true, it's because people have begged the gov't to meddle. Say, for example, to limit the amount of money that cabbies can charge for their fare. What a great plan.

But you personally are 'alright, Jack', so screw everyone else, eh?

No, I live my life doing as best as I can, everyone else does the same thing. They have no right to what I can do, just as I have no right to what they can do.

I'm not shouting, and I haven't said anything that was counter-factual.

Apart from your statements about Charity, and the 'benefits' of a non-regulated economy....

I'll tell you what I tell the other simps around here: For your position to be of any value, or if you want to convince others of your opinion, you have to present an argument beyond your stupid conclusory statements.

Regulations just add costs, which means the price goes higher, which means fewer people can take advantage of the product or service. That certainly does not help those that can afford it the least.

You and your neocon Fellow-Travellers usually merely IMPLY that your desired Economic System produces the best possible outcome for everyone - and usually you don't actually do THAT, to be fair - you just calumniate your opponents.

I don't malign my opponents, I present arguments that show that what they have said is, stupid, wrong, misguided, unfounded, et cetera. I haven't "implied" that my economic system is the best, I've presented arguments for it. For example, the cabbies would be better off if the gov't did not limit their fares. If, somehow, you believe that they are better off with the gov't limiting their fares, then present an argument to that effect. They seem to disagree with you, as is evidenced by their strike...

Then again, you personally DO claim that the poor 'have it easy' in the USA.

What I claim is that you can't read, well, beyond the level of a first grader. I say this because what I said is that "the poor have color TVs, mobile phones, microwaves and the rule of law." I didn't say that they "'have it easy'" as you quoted, but they do have it far, far easier than soap makers in Burkina Faso, or the poor in Myanmar. Why is that do you think?

And you also refuse to check out the Quality of Life stats.
Probably because you are aware that they UTTERLY invalidate your claims.

No, they don't invalidate my claims, they show that such statistics are important to you, and you think those are great places to live. Obviously 300 million people in the U.S. disagree with you. As well as all the people who are trying to get here and not there.

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Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

Nobody asked for your help...

They aren't even capable of understanding why they need it.

Pretend I'm the gov't. That way I can ram it down their throats, using force. Because I said so.

Note the irony there?

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Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

You know, I'm beginning to realize that I can't help you. You just want to believe your silly ideology at any costs, no matter what. You are either incapable of responding to arguments, or you avoid them.

LOL, Rush... You are beginning to catch on... You can't argue with these sorts of people. Whether they are some sort of religious fundamentalist or a 'Lefty-Lib True Believer(tm)', they refuse to believe anything that doesn't conform to their Holy Dogma.

The Lefty-Lib 'member in good standing' of the Church of Socialism will never truly engage in debate on the subject, because when one does so one must at least implicitly admit the possibility that the other side just might, maybe be correct.

For a Lefty-Lib to admit that a person on the right just might actually be right would be enough to make their mush-minds explode.

Its too bad that the Lefty-Lib is FAR more dangerous than religious fundamentalists. The odds that the Lefty-Libs will get the government to enact yet another socialist program and fund it by tax-rapeing your wallet are MUCH higher than the odds that a religious fundamentalist will turn terrorist and blow you to bits with their explosive wardrobe. If it wasn't for that I wouldn't even TRY to de-program and un-brainwash them.

Is it bad to worry and care for others?

Here in a thread about taxi drivers striking for more money, do lines need to be drawn in the sand? Left, right, poor, rich, don't we all deserve to speak of better days and ways? Or is this where we are in the 21st century. Still debating over basic human needs and throwing stones when ideas don't suit us?

Money. Personal gratification over your fellow man? Who is morally correct? Those who have compassion or those who self serve? I still believe everyone has something special to offer, even if it doesn't enrich me. I guess you can put me down as an idealist, but one day things will be different. Or we'll all be dead fighting over that last dollar or piece of land.

Listen to your heart, not your wallet.

Is this why we are called the Human Race?

If this were NAZI Germany in the 1940's, only 70 short years ago, would you not be among the ones turning a blind eye? Or worse? Perhaps the "Greatest Generation" will hold onto the title for all times.


If you must toss me into a category, put me on the short list of "thinkers".

I hear tell of a final categorizing to be held after this life.



.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

You know, I'm beginning to realize that I can't help you. You just want to believe your silly ideology at any costs, no matter what. You are either incapable of responding to arguments, or you avoid them.

LOL, Rush... You are beginning to catch on... You can't argue with these sorts of people. Whether they are some sort of religious fundamentalist or a 'Lefty-Lib True Believer(tm)', they refuse to believe anything that doesn't conform to their Holy Dogma.

The Lefty-Lib 'member in good standing' of the Church of Socialism will never truly engage in debate on the subject, because when one does so one must at least implicitly admit the possibility that the other side just might, maybe be correct.

For a Lefty-Lib to admit that a person on the right just might actually be right would be enough to make their mush-minds explode.

Its too bad that the Lefty-Lib is FAR more dangerous than religious fundamentalists. The odds that the Lefty-Libs will get the government to enact yet another socialist program and fund it by tax-rapeing your wallet are MUCH higher than the odds that a religious fundamentalist will turn terrorist and blow you to bits with their explosive wardrobe. If it wasn't for that I wouldn't even TRY to de-program and un-brainwash them.

What's wrong with a more HUMAN society? A society where humans count more than the money they own? Where the wealth of the normal Mr.& Mrs. Average is more important than the wealth of a few locusts? Where employees aren't exploited? Where the employees don't have to pay for their own security? Where jobs are put up there where the people are, instead of people being forced to move across the entire country to find a job?

I must admit, I don't exactly know what you mean with "Lefty-Lib". I know left-wings, and I know liberals, and both are entirely different political and economical directions. To throw them both into one basket shows me how right-wing you are.

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Account frozen...

Now this is the Law of the Jungle -- as old and as true as the sky;
And the Wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the Wolf that shall break it must die.

As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk the Law runneth forward and back --
For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.



.

Yep, and one of those wolves is considered the Alpha male and gets to eat first.

He also gets to kick other wolves out of the pack.

And lets not forget that he gets all the wolf loving he can handle while the rest of the males have to wait for what's left.

Oh, and did I mention that he will kill any male that does not respect his leadership.

Maybe the pack should organize and demand equal rights.

(just messing wit ya.) :)

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Hopefully the cosmos is not trying to reverse the charges.
Moderation in all things.

Heh heh. That's right Thorin. Very good. Very good. Now, very slowly, let's take that a step further... when one lowers the costs (oh, say, ummmm, let's say by building a plant in Spartanburg, for example), what do you think happens to profits?

That's easy. Firstly, the company gets money from the state/community/whatever because building a plant means jobs. Then, the first jobs are mostly subsidized (at least for a certain amount of time) so that the company don't have to pay them at all by themselves. That means their already high profit climbs to ridiculous heights which still is not enough for these greedy locusts.

You know, I'm beginning to realize that I can't help you. You just want to believe your silly ideology at any costs, no matter what. You are either incapable of responding to arguments, or you avoid them.

The "company" (and that could be you or the UAW (and the UAW has the money, rest assured)) can borrow money from a bank, and goes from there. Those jobs aren't subsidized at all, for any amount of time. But even if they were, nothing is stopping the UAW from doing it on their own. Nothing at all. You've said it, they don't need managers, stockholders, or the market. What the hell are they waiting for?

Build and sell the damn hell ass cars. Quit skrewing around and just do it.

Where can I get an ass car? Does it run on methane?

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Hopefully the cosmos is not trying to reverse the charges.
Moderation in all things.