Trekies may remember a ST-NG episode in which the DNA of several alien species and our own contained information that, when combined, presented a message from an ancient 'ancestral' species. Japanese scientists have recently succeeded in encoding Einstein's E=MC**2 equation into the DNA of a bacteria thus making it possible for us to store messages and information in DNA as well.

This rather interesting column suggests that somewhere in the enormous amount of Junk DNA in the human genome, there may already BE the ET message we're searching for.

As a topic for discussion: consider the possibility of a BOINC project which would scan the data from the Human Genome project looking for a message from ET! Think of the possible scientific advances already available encoded within our (or other living organism's) DNA.

Or it could just be a wild goose chase.

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Final Classic total: 11446 WU
Classic CPU hours: 72,366

consider the possibility of a BOINC project which would scan the data from the Human Genome project looking for a message from ET!

wow! that would be remarkable!! awesome idea, Randy!

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that would have worked if you hadn't stopped me

The trouble with this would be what to look for...
Would it be text? an image? or would it be some other message which we are lacking the knowlage to understand?.

~Bob

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Do you Good Search for Seti@Home? http://www.goodsearch.com/?charityid=888957
Or Good Shop? http://www.goodshop.com/?charityid=888957

Alien Message In Our DNA?

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Alien Message In Our DNA?

I did a scan of the message boards before I started this thread. How'd you find it when I couldn't???

Alien Message In Our DNA?

I did a scan of the message boards before I started this thread. How'd you find it when I couldn't???

Good morning.

I couldn't find it with the search feature either. It might have to do with a limit on the time of the thread's last post. I just did a search on google and found it. Unfortunately the part of the science board where it's located is totally locked.

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haha, just had the thought ... wouldn't it be a real kick in the teeth if the aliens HAVE hidden a message .... in oil molecules

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like take off eh! to The Great White North

i think it is interesting to think about hidden messages within our DNA, but outside of the realm of science fiction it really isn't plausible. All of the evidence points towards our evolution from simpler organisms. Unless the responsible aliens inserted the message way back in the beginnings of life's evolution into simpler organisms. Then, however, they would have no way of knowing that said organism would evolve into dominant intelligence able to find said message. On the other hand, if they created human DNA then they must have created humans. Such an extraordinary claim would require overwhelmingly extraordinary evidence in order to overcome the established evidence of evolution. Also, were we to start looking for a message, i think, specious messages would start jumping out at us that aren't really there. With such an emotional enterprise at stake many people would be too willing to overlook the rigorous standards of scrutiny required to analyze such findings.

Nevertheless, I am all for starting an @home project to search the human genome and analyze our DNA. Not necessarily for messages, but to better understand the mystery behind the 'junk DNA' that seems so wasteful. There must be some purpose to it, or at least some of it. If anything, we'd better understand ourselves and our behavior if not our origins.

Wouldn't it be interesting if microbes were found on Mars that contained DNA that shared similar patterns with DNA from the Earth?

I'm willing to speculate that is what will happen one day. Just speculation here, but I think the same thing likely may be found on Europa, Titan, and elsewhere.

Speculation here, but the commonality will be like the background noise. It is from the Creation of Nature itself.

(Belief that an Intelligence was involved with the Creation is, of course, a personal belief that can only be "answered" now by philosophy or religion.)

i think it is interesting to think about hidden messages within our DNA, but outside of the realm of science fiction it really isn't plausible. All of the evidence points towards our evolution from simpler organisms. Unless the responsible aliens inserted the message way back in the beginnings of life's evolution into simpler organisms. Then, however, they would have no way of knowing that said organism would evolve into dominant intelligence able to find said message. On the other hand, if they created human DNA then they must have created humans. Such an extraordinary claim would require overwhelmingly extraordinary evidence in order to overcome the established evidence of evolution. Also, were we to start looking for a message, i think, specious messages would start jumping out at us that aren't really there. With such an emotional enterprise at stake many people would be too willing to overlook the rigorous standards of scrutiny required to analyze such findings.

Nevertheless, I am all for starting an @home project to search the human genome and analyze our DNA. Not necessarily for messages, but to better understand the mystery behind the 'junk DNA' that seems so wasteful. There must be some purpose to it, or at least some of it. If anything, we'd better understand ourselves and our behavior if not our origins.

You make some very interesting points. Got me thinking!!

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It is no good to try to stop knowledge from going forward. Ignorance is never better than knowledge. --- Enrico Fermi ---

Wouldn't it be interesting if microbes were found on Mars that contained DNA that shared similar patterns with DNA from the Earth?

I'm willing to speculate that is what will happen one day. Just speculation here, but I think the same thing likely may be found on Europa, Titan, and elsewhere.

Speculation here, but the commonality will be like the background noise. It is from the Creation of Nature itself.

(Belief that an Intelligence was involved with the Creation is, of course, a personal belief that can only be "answered" now by philosophy or religion.)

Free, would that mean that the microbes on Mars and life here on earth share a common ancestor?

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It is no good to try to stop knowledge from going forward. Ignorance is never better than knowledge. --- Enrico Fermi ---

All of the evidence points towards our evolution from simpler organisms.

hmm... I must've missed that class... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

i think it is interesting to think about hidden messages within our DNA, but outside of the realm of science fiction it really isn't plausible. All of the evidence points towards our evolution from simpler organisms. Unless the responsible aliens inserted the message way back in the beginnings of life's evolution into simpler organisms. Then, however, they would have no way of knowing that said organism would evolve into dominant intelligence able to find said message. On the other hand, if they created human DNA then they must have created humans. Such an extraordinary claim would require overwhelmingly extraordinary evidence in order to overcome the established evidence of evolution. Also, were we to start looking for a message, i think, specious messages would start jumping out at us that aren't really there. With such an emotional enterprise at stake many people would be too willing to overlook the rigorous standards of scrutiny required to analyze such findings.

Nevertheless, I am all for starting an @home project to search the human genome and analyze our DNA. Not necessarily for messages, but to better understand the mystery behind the 'junk DNA' that seems so wasteful. There must be some purpose to it, or at least some of it. If anything, we'd better understand ourselves and our behavior if not our origins.

Here's an idea for science fiction (if it hasn't already been used): Maybe an ETI planted "mitochrondrial eve" with a code in her DNA.

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It is no good to try to stop knowledge from going forward. Ignorance is never better than knowledge. --- Enrico Fermi ---

Alien Message In Our DNA?

I did a scan of the message boards before I started this thread. How'd you find it when I couldn't???

Good morning.

I couldn't find it with the search feature either. It might have to do with a limit on the time of the thread's last post. I just did a search on google and found it. Unfortunately the part of the science board where it's located is totally locked.

A recent change was made that autolocks all threads over 60 days old. You can red-x a post there however, and request that the thread be unlocked.

Eric's post from the 9th......

We've modified the forum parameters slightly. Threads are now automatically locked after 60 days of inactivity (with the exception being unlocked but sticky threads).

Threads are rarely resurrected after such a long duration of idle time. If you need to bump a thread feel free to red-x a post in the thread (with a message requesting the thread be unlocked and a brief reason why) or email the mod list (setimods at ssl dot berkeley dot edu).

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"Time is simply the mechanism that keeps everything from happening all at once."

All of the evidence points towards our evolution from simpler organisms.

hmm... I must've missed that class... ;)

Yes Jeffery, you missed that class, it was on a weekday. ;P

Humans share so much DNA in common with other forms of life.

But what to look for ? What language ? What image format ?
I feel we should look in PI or E for a message from the "real" makers. At least they made a book and a movie about that.

With an infinite search space full of random numbers surely you will eventually run into a New York telephone directory. Or just about anything else you might be looking for.

Just my 2 bobs worth.

Alien Message In Our DNA?

I did a scan of the message boards before I started this thread. How'd you find it when I couldn't???

Good morning.

I couldn't find it with the search feature either. It might have to do with a limit on the time of the thread's last post. I just did a search on google and found it. Unfortunately the part of the science board where it's located is totally locked.

A recent change was made that autolocks all threads over 60 days old. You can red-x a post there however, and request that the thread be unlocked.

Eric's post from the 9th......

We've modified the forum parameters slightly. Threads are now automatically locked after 60 days of inactivity (with the exception being unlocked but sticky threads).

Threads are rarely resurrected after such a long duration of idle time. If you need to bump a thread feel free to red-x a post in the thread (with a message requesting the thread be unlocked and a brief reason why) or email the mod list (setimods at ssl dot berkeley dot edu).

Indeed. Thanks :)

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i think it is interesting to think about hidden messages within our DNA, but outside of the realm of science fiction it really isn't plausible. All of the evidence points towards our evolution from simpler organisms. Unless the responsible aliens inserted the message way back in the beginnings of life's evolution into simpler organisms. Then, however, they would have no way of knowing that said organism would evolve into dominant intelligence able to find said message. On the other hand, if they created human DNA then they must have created humans. Such an extraordinary claim would require overwhelmingly extraordinary evidence in order to overcome the established evidence of evolution. Also, were we to start looking for a message, i think, specious messages would start jumping out at us that aren't really there. With such an emotional enterprise at stake many people would be too willing to overlook the rigorous standards of scrutiny required to analyze such findings.

Nevertheless, I am all for starting an @home project to search the human genome and analyze our DNA. Not necessarily for messages, but to better understand the mystery behind the 'junk DNA' that seems so wasteful. There must be some purpose to it, or at least some of it. If anything, we'd better understand ourselves and our behavior if not our origins.

Nobody said that Aliens who could have planted life DNA on earth dont live for 6000 years each. After all recent experiments on mice show that they can easily double their life just by changing some DNA information. So in this case they could wait for a more complex experiment for their own equivalent for 100 years o rsay 60,000 human years or more if the result is interesting?

Also they could have done it long time ago in a galaxy far far away where they planned earth life as a backup to their own if they where facing an imminant catastrophy. Hence it is possible.

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Kether wrote:

Nobody said that Aliens who could have planted life DNA on earth dont live for 6000 years each. After all recent experiments on mice show that they can easily double their life just by changing some DNA information. So in this case they could wait for a more complex experiment for their own equivalent for 100 years o rsay 60,000 human years or more if the result is interesting?

i suppose a being could live this long if they lived close to a massive body like a black hole. or if they spent their days traveling space close to the speed of light. otherwise this makes a great science fiction story.

Kether wrote:

Also they could have done it long time ago in a galaxy far far away where they planned earth life as a backup to their own if they where facing an imminant catastrophy.

a galaxy far far away makes physical contact highly unlikely. the sheer distance involved. why wouldn't they choose a suitable planet in their own galaxy? why traverse millions and millions of light years to a small planet orbiting an ordinary star in the back corner of an obsure arm of what we call the Milky Way? How are they even going to travel such distance? There is a cosmic speed limit and nothing can accelerate to that speed.

Kether wrote:

Hence it is possible.

There may be a nonzero possibility, but i contend that it is not possible.

a galaxy far far away makes physical contact highly unlikely. the sheer distance involved. why wouldn't they choose a suitable planet in their own galaxy? why traverse millions and millions of light years to a small planet orbiting an ordinary star in the back corner of an obsure arm of what we call the Milky Way? How are they even going to travel such distance? There is a cosmic speed limit and nothing can accelerate to that speed.

Whether you believe or not, the reasoning for that would appear to be obvious, wouldn't it? If they were trying to preserve or protect their physical life, wouldn't it make the most sense to install any "backup" life forms on a planet that was far far away from any hazard prone area in the universe?

I think our planet and solar system could be considered a type of "sanctuary" when you consider how actively violent our universe really is (black holes, cosmic collisions, supernovae, etc). As far as there being a "cosmic speed limit", that would only be true if you were to assume that mankind has discovered everything and already "knows all".

a galaxy far far away makes physical contact highly unlikely. the sheer distance involved. why wouldn't they choose a suitable planet in their own galaxy? why traverse millions and millions of light years to a small planet orbiting an ordinary star in the back corner of an obsure arm of what we call the Milky Way? How are they even going to travel such distance? There is a cosmic speed limit and nothing can accelerate to that speed.

Whether you believe or not, the reasoning for that would appear to be obvious, wouldn't it? If they were trying to preserve or protect their physical life, wouldn't it make the most sense to install any "backup" life forms on a planet that was far far away from any hazard prone area in the universe?

I think our planet and solar system could be considered a type of "sanctuary" when you consider how actively violent our universe really is (black holes, cosmic collisions, supernovae, etc). As far as there being a "cosmic speed limit", that would only be true if you were to assume that mankind has discovered everything and already "knows all".

i understand the reasoning that an intelligent civilization would seek to colonize another planet to save themselves from some catastrophe. I would hope that if the human race one day faced cataclysmic destruction that we would be wise enough to get out, given we had the technology. However, the idea of an alien civilization traversing galactic distances to save themselves is ludicrous. are you fully aware of the distance between us and the closest galaxy? 2.5 million light years.

as for "backup" lifeforms, what do you mean? life isn't a hard drive. Are you implying that they are manifesting themselves in humans and we just don't know it yet? Why wouldn't they just colonize the planet themselves? Why go through the trouble to "back themselves up" in humans? It doesn't seem very suitable to the survival of the species if they don't know who they are. It would be as if humans on earth faced imminent collision with an asteroid and instead of colonizing mars we created a "back up" life form and sent them off.

also, the cosmic speed limit is real. you imply that it isn't a law of nature because one day we may discover a way to break it. well, with that logic lets assume that one day we will discover that all of science is wrong so lets just stop here and throw it all out. there has presently been no observation to back up the idea that an object with mass can accelerate to or beyond the speed of light. so therefore until such a discovery is made there is no reason to dispute the cosmic speed limit. it would be mere speculation and that is reserved for science fiction. it has been proven through observation that the faster an object travels the more massive it becomes and also the more energy is required to continue accelerating. at the speed of light mass and energy become infinite. physics has no room for infinity, its illogical. photons are massless which is why they can travel 186,000 miles per second. lifeforms and spacecraft have mass and require energy to accelerate. so, again nothing can accelerate to the speed of light. i would even contend that most intelligent civilizations don't have enough resources to travel at 3/4 the speed of light for a long enough period of time to travel between galaxies. of course i have no way of knowing this, but i think its a safe assumption given the laws of physics, which are the same everywhere and for every civilization.