Recently I heard a theory which suggests that Human intelligence was a result of a freak genetic mutation. If this is true then there can't be much hope of intelligent extraterrestrial life capable of contacting Earth?

And considering that 1 in 10 stars has planets, but an alien planet would have to be placed just right like the Earth to be able to sustain life, too close to their sun and the water would dry up like Mercury, too far and it would freeze like on Mars, the possibility of any kind Intelligent extraterrestrial life gets slimmer. Also taking into account the chance events which made it possible for man to be here in the first place means that we are probably alone in the Universe.

This probably makes no sense
at all but its just something that was on my mind.

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Recently I heard a theory which suggests that Human intelligence was a result of a freak genetic mutation. If this is true then there can't be much hope of intelligent extraterrestrial life capable of contacting Earth?

And considering that 1 in 10 stars has planets, but an alien planet would have to be placed just right like the Earth to be able to sustain life, too close to their sun and the water would dry up like Mercury, too far and it would freeze like on Mars, the possibility of any kind Intelligent extraterrestrial life gets slimmer. Also taking into account the chance events which made it possible for man to be here in the first place means that we are probably alone in the Universe.

This probably makes no sense
at all but its just something that was on my mind.

There is the Drake Equation, see for yourself how many civilizations there are! You can try it here:

http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious/Topics/SETI/drake_equation.html

Recently I heard a theory which suggests that Human intelligence was a result of a freak genetic mutation. If this is true then there can't be much hope of intelligent extraterrestrial life capable of contacting Earth?

And considering that 1 in 10 stars has planets, but an alien planet would have to be placed just right like the Earth to be able to sustain life, too close to their sun and the water would dry up like Mercury, too far and it would freeze like on Mars, the possibility of any kind Intelligent extraterrestrial life gets slimmer. Also taking into account the chance events which made it possible for man to be here in the first place means that we are probably alone in the Universe.

This probably makes no sense
at all but its just something that was on my mind.

Does everything have to exist in space by Earth standards? Why do they have to breathe oxygen? Why can't they survive on hot planets? We already know that bacteria can exist in volcano shoots deep in the ocean...thats superheated water. Why do they need sunlight all the time like us?

Recent studies say that there is life on Europa, one of Jupiter's moons. Life does not always have to be intelligent. It exists, and its just so far away...

I said this in an old thread in 2005...take every grain of sand on Earth...every single one now, you can do it :) We are but the smallest and single grain in all those grains....now thats small and isolated...........

P.S. Signals can take decades to reach us...in fact it takes so long, its only every so often some ham radio operator or something picks up the signal of Voyager.....which has traveled farther than any man made object ever and still is to this day. It also has on board a record, gold, that has a Hello message written in every language on Earth including math. If this thing keeps going, and something comes across it, they may want to visit...take that into consideration :)

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"By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible". Hebrews 11.3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmWk9ttLX3I





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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmWk9ttLX3I

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Very nice :) It really amazing to think that they were seeing them long before they thought of the true existence of UFO's.

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"By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible". Hebrews 11.3

Recently I heard a theory which suggests that Human intelligence was a result of a freak genetic mutation. If this is true then there can't be much hope of intelligent extraterrestrial life capable of contacting Earth?

And considering that 1 in 10 stars has planets, but an alien planet would have to be placed just right like the Earth to be able to sustain life, too close to their sun and the water would dry up like Mercury, too far and it would freeze like on Mars, the possibility of any kind Intelligent extraterrestrial life gets slimmer. Also taking into account the chance events which made it possible for man to be here in the first place means that we are probably alone in the Universe.

This probably makes no sense
at all but its just something that was on my mind.

You are correct is saying that a planet has to be in the right habitable zone. I don't know the exact area as it depends on the star but this zone is bigger than you think. Also as far as we know life needs some type of atmosphere. With no atmosphere life as we know it couldn't form and without an atmosphere life would be slaughtered by solar radiation. For a planet to hold an atmosphere it has to be as large as Venus or Earth. It can be a little smaller but not much. Mars for example doesn't have enough gravity to hold an atmosphere because it is a smaller body. If a planet wants to evolve intelligence it needs a moon. Without a moon to gravitational stabilize the planet it will be free to spin in any direction it wishes. This would be devastating for life. One day on a part of the planet there could be a sandstorm and the next there could be a blizzard. As you can see this would be terrible for evolution. So you are correct when you say that the conditions for life have to be just right. Once you have the correct conditions all you need is time. Life isn't hard to get started. Just need some hydrogen really. Spark it with radiation from the sun or lightning in the atmosphere. This causes the hydrogen atoms to break apart and recombine into a more complex form. Drop them into water and you have yourself amino acids.

All humans are proof that the laws of the universe permit matter to assemble itself into a self aware, intelligent form. Intelligent beings are most likely very rare in the cosmos. But if you consider the awesome number of stars and galaxies there are probably thousands of civilizations in the universe. It's sad to think that although there may be thousands of intelligent beings its unlikely that they will ever meet each other. The universe is just too dang big! They are out there. I have no doubt about that. But how far away are they?

Just out of curiosity I figured out the number of stars and planets in the universe based upon what we can see. This is a very rough estimate. lol
100 billion galaxies times a average of 100 billion stars per galaxy = 1x10^22
Thats 10 sextillion stars in the universe! Thats a 1 followed by 22 zeros! If one of ten has planets that means there are 1 sextillion stars with planets in the universe.

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You are correct is saying that a planet has to be in the right habitable zone. I don't know the exact area as it depends on the star but this zone is bigger than you think.

Read my Reply

Also as far as we know life needs some type of atmosphere. With no atmosphere life as we know it couldn't form and without an atmosphere life would be slaughtered by solar radiation. For a planet to hold an atmosphere it has to be as large as Venus or Earth. It can be a little smaller but not much. Mars for example doesn't have enough gravity to hold an atmosphere because it is a smaller body.

Mars has an atmosphere. A thin one but it has one.

If a planet wants to evolve intelligence it needs a moon. Without a moon to gravitational stabilize the planet it will be free to spin in any direction it wishes. This would be devastating for life. One day on a part of the planet there could be a sandstorm and the next there could be a blizzard. As you can see this would be terrible for evolution. So you are correct when you say that the conditions for life have to be just right. Once you have the correct conditions all you need is time. Life isn't hard to get started. Just need some hydrogen really. Spark it with radiation from the sun or lightning in the atmosphere. This causes the hydrogen atoms to break apart and recombine into a more complex form. Drop them into water and you have yourself amino acids.

All humans are proof that the laws of the universe permit matter to assemble itself into a self aware, intelligent form. Intelligent beings are most likely very rare in the cosmos. But if you consider the awesome number of stars and galaxies there are probably thousands of civilizations in the universe. It's sad to think that although there may be thousands of intelligent beings its unlikely that they will ever meet each other. The universe is just too dang big! They are out there. I have no doubt about that. But how far away are they?

Just out of curiosity I figured out the number of stars and planets in the universe based upon what we can see. This is a very rough estimate. lol
100 billion galaxies times a average of 100 billion stars per galaxy = 1x10^22
Thats 10 sextillion stars in the universe! Thats a 1 followed by 22 zeros! If one of ten has planets that means there are 1 sextillion stars with planets in the universe.

Yes but life does not need to be like Earth to evolve or exist.

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"By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible". Hebrews 11.3

Sorry I should have made myself clearer. I meant to say that a planet like Mars doesn't have enough gravity to hold an atmosphere that can sustain large life forms like ourselves.

We don't have much data to work with when it comes to these discussions. As far as I can tell life needs certain things in order to form and flourish. If it didn't then there would be life all over the place. Which there isn't. At least not in our solar system. The prospects for life still look good for Europa and Titan. I'm beginning to think DNA plays a major role in life throughout the universe. The only evidence I have for this claim is the fact that not shortly after the Earth's formation DNA and life arose here. And it looks like Titan is a lot like the primitive Earth.

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Assuming all life is carbon based and imaginable by us.

I've seen some things that seem to live in space. Not sure if they evolved there but...


Check out the creatures that seem to be slithering like a caterpiler near the shuttle:

Part 1:
http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-5070476612863849446&hl=en

Part 2:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8524267568796529301&hl=en


There's another that looks like a worm falling into our atmosphere, but I can't find it at the moment.







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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Didn't they find traces of methane on Mars which suggests bacteria/organisms underground?

But how could they live in the thin atmosphere of Mars with no oxygen?

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Maybe they don't need oxygen.

;)

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Maybe they don't need oxygen.

;)

Plants, for instance.

Archea

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Anaerobic organism

An anaerobic organism is any organism that does not require oxygen for growth.

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Join TeamACC

Sometimes I think we are alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we are not. In either case the idea is quite staggering.

From many different threads I get the impression that many people seem to consider oxygen as a requirement for life. As noted above, it is not.

There was very little oxygen in our atmosphere until after life started and began to release oxygen into the atmosphere.

Also, many seem to assume that liquid water is required. It is not, any reasonable solvent will suffice.

Different solvents are liquid at different temperatures which expands the "inhabitable zone" way beyond what is considered suitable for earth type life.

I can only consider that any expectation that alien life will be like us is nothing more than extreme hubris.

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Qunpu' lo'taHmo' jIH yItamQo'

True

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

thanks for this thread it's been a good read.

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walla

Also as far as we know life needs some type of atmosphere. With no atmosphere life as we know it couldn't form and without an atmosphere life would be slaughtered by solar radiation.

I have some problems with this "life as we know it" I thought the point of all this is life as we DON'T know it.

Solar radiation is only a problem if you're on the surface. ;-)

If a planet wants to evolve intelligence it needs a moon. Without a moon to gravitational stabilize the planet it will be free to spin in any direction it wishes.

What happened to conservation of angular momentum ?

Once you have the correct conditions all you need is time. Life isn't hard to get started. Just need some hydrogen really. Spark it with radiation from the sun or lightning in the atmosphere. This causes the hydrogen atoms to break apart and recombine into a more complex form.

That sounds like nuclear fusion :-O So who made the atom bombs ?

Drop them into water and you have yourself amino acids.

Why bother ? There are lots of amino acids floating around in space.

All humans are proof that the laws of the universe permit matter to assemble itself into a self aware, intelligent form. Intelligent beings are most likely very rare in the cosmos. But if you consider the awesome number of stars and galaxies there are probably thousands of civilizations in the universe. It's sad to think that although there may be thousands of intelligent beings its unlikely that they will ever meet each other. The universe is just too dang big! They are out there. I have no doubt about that. But how far away are they?

I aggree with you 100%

Just out of curiosity I figured out the number of stars and planets in the universe based upon what we can see. This is a very rough estimate. lol
100 billion galaxies times a average of 100 billion stars per galaxy = 1x10^22
Thats 10 sextillion stars in the universe! Thats a 1 followed by 22 zeros! If one of ten has planets that means there are 1 sextillion stars with planets in the universe.

The universe is many times larger than what we can see. The majority of it will remain forever hidden due to the expansion of space.

Sorry for the delayed responce but I was too busy for a while.

If I have misunderstood you in any way, please let me know. I'm just trying to help.

have some problems with this "life as we know it" I thought the point of all this is life as we DON'T know it.

How do we define life as we know it? My argument is that DNA is a requirement for life anywhere. It is unlikely that it will look and behave like Earth life but it will likely be based upon the same basic structure. DNA. Look at all the different types of life on this planet. We have some very strange fish in the deep oceans to massive whales to snakes to kangaroos and humans. DNA based life is highly adaptive and can survive through almost anything. The universe has thrown many curve balls at life on this planet and it is still thriving with life. Amino and nucleic acids are very easy to make as I will describe below.

That sounds like nuclear fusion :-O So who made the atom bombs ?
Why bother ? There are lots of amino acids floating around in space.

It's not a nuclear reaction. It's essentially a chemical reaction in which two or more chemical elements unite to form a more complex product. So we have some hydrogen and methane molecules. If we strike these molecules with radiation from a star or if it is near a planet like Saturn it will be hit by electrons from the planet's magnetic field. These molecules then break apart and recombine into a more complex form. Yes there are massive amounts of organic molecules floating around in space and on comets. But as far as we know all these were made by the same process as I described above. Also see the Urey-Miller Experiment

What happened to conservation of angular momentum ?

True. However tidal forces from a planet's atmosphere could throw the planet's axis of rotation off. Also planets didn't form from a perfect cloud of interstellar gas. If you look at Mars's axis of rotation it can vary up to 60 degrees while the Earth's is only 23.5 degrees. The Earth has one large moon while Mars has 2 small asteroids orbiting it. I need to do some more research into this topic.

The universe is many times larger than what we can see. The majority of it will remain forever hidden due to the expansion of space.

I agree with you completely. I should have made myself clearer. Thats the number of stars in the observable universe as we understand it today.

Thank you for the feedback. I always enjoy discussing this stuff.

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I wouldn't limit myself to DNA as we know it. Far too many unknowns for that.

I am as amazed as the next person about the incredible structure of cells and how they function. I'd call that intelligent life any day.


For those who'd like to learn more here are some free video classes from U.C. Berkeley:

http://webcast.berkeley.edu/course_details.php?seriesid=1906978417


Some from MIT:

http://ocw.mit.edu/index.html





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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss