if you were to guess, when do you think Man will reach Europa? - ideally with a nuclear drilling/melting device that's capable of burrowing through the surface and entering the liquid below... and which evolutionary stage do you think life has reached? Simple crustaceans, perhaps? ... or maybe something slightly more complex?

this topic interests me greatly - but I know very few with whom I can discuss these ideas in person... I extend my questions to you!!


regards, Melt

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that would have worked if you hadn't stopped me

If we get there, do we have the right to drill.
If we cannot guarantee 100% sterilisation of all equipment, can we take the risk of contamination.

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Join Calm Chaos

The Kurds will get there first, in 2349, and will find octopi.

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flaming balloons

If we get there, do we have the right to drill.
If we cannot guarantee 100% sterilisation of all equipment, can we take the risk of contamination.

I agree - brutal sterilization must be a prerequisite... but assuming we were capable of exploring the ecosystem without simultaneously tainting it in the process - what do you think we'd find down there? Is it realistic to believe there's anything more advanced than microbes - or could we expect to find Kraken ... (I'm a little over-enthusiastic, so I'm hoping for the latter)

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that would have worked if you hadn't stopped me

If we get there, do we have the right to drill.
If we cannot guarantee 100% sterilisation of all equipment, can we take the risk of contamination.

I agree - brutal sterilization must be a prerequisite... but assuming we were capable of exploring the ecosystem without simultaneously tainting it in the process - what do you think we'd find down there? Is it realistic to believe there's anything more advanced than microbes - or could we expect to find Kraken ... (I'm a little over-enthusiastic, so I'm hoping for the latter)

My best guess would be we find simple crustaceans huddled around volcanic vents.
maybe thats being a bit optimistic.
but it would still be a defining moment.
Could there be more? I hope so, because here I am Searching for ETI.

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Join Calm Chaos

Could there be more? I hope so, because here I am Searching for ETI.

I'm with you, man - If I were magically visited by a Genie, all three of my wishes would concern the task of contacting extra terrestrials ... To be honest, I don't even care if they're intelligent - I'd be grateful for anything whatsoever! This is an endlessly seductive and extraordinarily fascinating topic!

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that would have worked if you hadn't stopped me

Could there be more? I hope so, because here I am Searching for ETI.

I'm with you, man - If I were magically visited by a Genie, all three of my wishes would concern the task of contacting extra terrestrials ... To be honest, I don't even care if they're intelligent - I'd be grateful for anything whatsoever! This is an endlessly seductive and extraordinarily fascinating topic!

Consider an aquatic animal, highly evolved in a stable environment. Totally unaware of anything except the environment it finds it's self in.

Much of our types of technology would be either unavailable or unrequired.

This animal may be very intelligent, with highly evolved social structures etc.

But how would we recognise it's intelligence ?

When will we get there ? No idea but I think it won't be for a VERY long time. We have many problems on this planet that need to be resolved before we even consider going to Europa.

I would love to know myself. (Ever since 2001, 2010 space odesy).
Well, that's my two bobs worth.

Consider an aquatic animal, highly evolved in a stable environment. Totally unaware of anything except the environment it finds it's self in.

Much of our types of technology would be either unavailable or unrequired.

This animal may be very intelligent, with highly evolved social structures etc.

But how would we recognise it's intelligence ?

When will we get there ? No idea but I think it won't be for a VERY long time. We have many problems on this planet that need to be resolved before we even consider going to Europa.

I would love to know myself. (Ever since 2001, 2010 space odesy).
Well, that's my two bobs worth.

I like your ideas, Graeme - I'm in love with the idea of non-Earth animals evolving in complete isolation... Regarding a manned landing on Europa: I read how exposure to the radiation emitted by Jupiter would be devastating to humans ... and although the radiation wouldn't penetrate the ice more than a couple meters, I still find the concept of animals adapting to this environment to be most intriguing ...

as far as alien technology goes - I suppose technology, in its most basic sense, has always been designed to compensate for our own weaknesses and inabilities... For example - since our descent from the trees, our primary means of transportation has been walking - so we've invented foot padding/shoes...

at various points throughout history, we've decided to bypass walking altogether - so we've developed carts, cars, aircraft, etc... each new technological plateau is once-removed from the previous. In other words: perhaps alien technology would be completely unidentifiable to us unless we were aware of its development ----- and unless communication was easily achievable, this mutual understanding may never be attained ...

historically, humans have been able to establish relationships because we've all developed near-identical communicative techniques - speech, sign language, body language, facial expressions, drawing ... and we share a universal understanding of basic concepts such as affection and violence.

How would you express affection to an alien short of hugging it? Perhaps violence (destruction/deconstruction) is the only universal concept? By definition, any sentient being would understand the concept of existence - and by extension, the concept of ceasing to exist ...

how could we possibly ever communicate with aliens?


p.s. Europan culture, according to 2010, seems fairly skeptical to humans - I love that!

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that would have worked if you hadn't stopped me

The radiation would indeed be disaterous, not just for the people but also for the ship.

All these worlds are yours, except Europa.
Attempt no landings on Europa.

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

All these worlds are yours, except Europa.
Attempt no landings on Europa.

2010?

That said, and "Lucifer" was born.

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flaming balloons

if you were to guess, when do you think Man will reach Europa? - ideally with a nuclear drilling/melting device that's capable of burrowing through the surface and entering the liquid below... and which evolutionary stage do you think life has reached? Simple crustaceans, perhaps? ... or maybe something slightly more complex?

this topic interests me greatly - but I know very few with whom I can discuss these ideas in person... I extend my questions to you!!
regards, Melt

I would guess not until after we as a Planet can agree on where and when to explore next. With the US going it alone and now the Chinese and Russians spending billions of dollars, yen and rubles on Space Exploration and the cost of such things skyrocketing, not in the near future. If a co-operative joint venture, such as the International Space Station(ISS), could be forged, then perhaps sooner. But I would expect it would have to be after the ISS could be used as a launching site. Sending things up from the Earth costs a large fortune everytime. Starting from near zero gravity can result in enough fuel carried to get there and back, in a smaller more cost effective package.
Now for the "life" we might find...I would expect it to be microbial and difficult to find. The atmosphere on Europa is not ideal and just because it is a liquid does not mean there is life. On Earth we have found "life" in many strange and unlikely places, but that does not mean "it is everywhere"! We have found lifeless area on Earth too, the Dead Sea comes to mind first.

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if you were to guess, when do you think Man will reach Europa? - ideally with a nuclear drilling/melting device that's capable of burrowing through the surface and entering the liquid below... and which evolutionary stage do you think life has reached? Simple crustaceans, perhaps? ... or maybe something slightly more complex?

this topic interests me greatly - but I know very few with whom I can discuss these ideas in person... I extend my questions to you!!
regards, Melt

I would guess not until after we as a Planet can agree on where and when to explore next. With the US going it alone and now the Chinese and Russians spending billions of dollars, yen and rubles on Space Exploration and the cost of such things skyrocketing, not in the near future. If a co-operative joint venture, such as the International Space Station(ISS), could be forged, then perhaps sooner. But I would expect it would have to be after the ISS could be used as a launching site. Sending things up from the Earth costs a large fortune everytime. Starting from near zero gravity can result in enough fuel carried to get there and back, in a smaller more cost effective package.
Now for the "life" we might find...I would expect it to be microbial and difficult to find. The atmosphere on Europa is not ideal and just because it is a liquid does not mean there is life. On Earth we have found "life" in many strange and unlikely places, but that does not mean "it is everywhere"! We have found lifeless area on Earth too, the Dead Sea comes to mind first.

Q. ever see 'The Astronaut Farmer' ???

All these worlds are yours, except Europa.
Attempt no landings on Europa.

2010?

That said, and "Lucifer" was born.

The "Star Child"

It was what Arthur C Clarke called the new sun formed from Jupiter as it collapsed and became the second sun in our solar system.

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flaming balloons