When Seti cites floating point operations you've contributed in quadrillions, is that 10 to the 15th power (U.S.), or 10 to the 24th power (U.K.) ?

In the United States (Berkeley, which is SetiatHome Central, is in the western part of that country, just north of San Francisco, California), a quadrillion is 10^15. I usually type the number out to eliminate confusion.

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When Seti cites floating point operations you've contributed in quadrillions, is that 10 to the 15th power (U.S.), or 10 to the 24th power (U.K.) ?

The British/European meaning of "billion" &c. is practically unknown in the USA; here in Canada it may be a little more familar but is rarely used, if ever, by natives. Even in the UK it's used less and less often these days (unfortunately—IMO it’s more logical). Absent indications to the contrary I think it’s pretty safe to assume the American meaning in most cases, certainly in material from American sources.

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Really, the US way is kind of dumb. Why would they call two groups of three places a "million" and three a "billion"? It looks like the prefix letters are one less than the numbers for which they stand for (factors of a thousand). In the British system (which I had just happened to notice in a dictionary in the fifties or sixties) each prefix stands for its correct number of factors of a million.

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Really, the US way is kind of dumb. Why would they call two groups of three places a "million" and three a "billion"? It looks like the prefix letters are one less than the numbers for which they stand for (factors of a thousand). In the British system (which I had just happened to notice in a dictionary in the fifties or sixties) each prefix stands for its correct number of factors of a million.

A good and true observation.

So I wonder how the American form of "billion" came about...

It does go hand-in-hand with the other American idiosyncratic differences of having a random sequence for dates and for still using non-metric measures.

Almost like America enjoys perpetuating confusion for itself :-(

Regards,
Martin

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See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Simple... there would be no billionaires under the UK definition!

A billion now seems to be internationally accepted as 10^9, another example of infectious US culture.
Now if only we could teach them to spell "colour" properly, and understand the difference between "insure" and "ensure", "effect" and "affect"... etc etc etc!

Simple... there would be no billionaires under the UK definition!

A billion now seems to be internationally accepted as 10^9, another example of infectious US culture.
Now if only we could teach them to spell "colour" properly, and understand the difference between "insure" and "ensure", "effect" and "affect"... etc etc etc!

Now if only we could teach them to spell "colour" properly, and understand the difference between "insure" and "ensure", "effect" and "affect"... etc etc etc!

To enable this to come about, and further enhance ties between the Union and the 51st state, may I humbly nominate Dan Quayle, George Dubya, and our very own John Prescott to share the newly created Chair of Linguistic Gymnastics.......?

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Really it makes sense that 10^9 is a billion.

10^3 = thousand
10^6 = million
10^9 = billion
10^12 = trillion
10^15 = gazillion ;)

Maybe we should just use the international naming convention (kilo, mega, giga, tera, peta etc)....

Live long and BOINC.

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Paul
(S@H1 8888)
And proud of it!

Really it makes sense that 10^9 is a billion.

10^3 = thousand
10^6 = million
10^9 = billion
10^12 = trillion
10^15 = gazillion ;)

Not sure what you mean by "makes sense". What I (and some others here) consider more logical about the old European system is its relation to number-words from Latin:

1 => mono- => million = 10^(1*6) = 10^6
2 => bi- => billion = 10^(2*6) = 10^12
3 => tri- => trillion = 10^(3*6) = 10^18
4 => quadri- => quadrillion = 10^(4*6) = 10^24
…

If you don’t remember its meaning, getting from one of these names to the corresponding power of ten is just a matter of multiplying the implied number by six: E = 6n.

However, in the North American system you have to first add one to the number, then multiply by three: E = 3(n + 1). Not exactly advanced calculus, but still an extra step, and somewhat error-prone if you forget whether to add or subtract the 1. A further disadvantage of this system is that one runs out of familiar names quicker as the exponents become large: a European "octillion" (10^48) is equivalent to an American "quindecillion".

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Simple... there would be no billionaires under the UK definition!

A billion now seems to be internationally accepted as 10^9, another example of infectious US culture.
Now if only we could teach them to spell "colour" properly, and understand the difference between "insure" and "ensure", "effect" and "affect"... etc etc etc!

It's my opinion that the education system in the United States is horrible. Americans (maybe Brits and Canadians too, I don't know) do not know when to use "effect" and "affect" as you have said, but they also do not know when to use "their," "there," or "they're." Ah, another example is the average American (even a college graduate!) doesn't know when to use "to" or "too." It's sad. Even more said is when I hear an American use "pacifically" to mean "specifically." Or, how about adding on those useless prepositions to the end of sentences, like, "What time should I call you "at?"

I think spelling differences like "color" and "colour" don't matter.

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Simple... there would be no billionaires under the UK definition!

A billion now seems to be internationally accepted as 10^9, another example of infectious US culture.
Now if only we could teach them to spell "colour" properly, and understand the difference between "insure" and "ensure", "effect" and "affect"... etc etc etc!

It's my opinion that the education system in the United States is horrible. Americans (maybe Brits and Canadians too, I don't know) do not know when to use "effect" and "affect" as you have said, but they also do not know when to use "their," "there," or "they're." Ah, another example is the average American (even a college graduate!) doesn't know when to use "to" or "too." It's sad. Even more said is when I hear an American use "pacifically" to mean "specifically." Or, how about adding on those useless prepositions to the end of sentences, like, "What time should I call you "at?"

I think spelling differences like "color" and "colour" don't matter.

The effect that the recent solar flares had on my short wave radio was to effect the reception of signals. I was able to receive signals from the UK very clearly. However; once the flares subsided, the corresponding effect that had was to counter-effect the reception of signal(s) and I lost the UK on my short wave.

Also; while listening to the short wave and receiving the UK transmissions I became affected by the Accent of a woman's voice I heard. I fell instantly head over heals in love with the sound of her voice. I was counter-affected when the signal was lost to me and I went into withdrawal; longing for the next solar flare activity that would hopefully return the reception of her voice on that signal back to my short wave.

I believe I pass... (American schooling in action... Graduated High School in 1985. English was my strong suit. Continued doing well with English, grammar, and spelling... College was awesome. I even got into creative writing at the Junior College Level.)

Oh, and on color my favorite is red.

<NOTE: It also helps that my classmates were properly instructed on "how-to" properly use a dictionary in Third Grade. We were also assigned vocabulary words to look up the definitions in that dictionary and construct sentences with proper grammar.

Now; if you are commenting on my son's generation, (he is 13), that is an entirely different matter. It is unfortunate that the Politics in the Nation have effected the school systems of the Nation adversely. My son's classmates were NOT taught how to use a dictionary. Thus; his generation is more apt NOT to spell words correctly, NOR to use proper grammar in construction of sentences.

In defense of the Teachers; however, this is due to constant changes in Political schemes from year to year, (especially Election year to Election year), and "State Standards" that are created and/or changed on the fly by Politicians... These "State Standards" have been counterintuitive, and have tied the hands of many great instructors. Instead of being able to teach intuitively and give proper instruction to each student as needed/necessary; Teachers are now on a "Pacing Schedule" to get the "State Standard" Tests administered on time. This has forced Teachers to cut out the introduction of many of the Novels my classmates were introduced to in Third and Fourth Grades; and also, cuts out the assignment of "Vocabulary Word Lists" with "Dictionary" use...

Yet, as these children of today "fail" in their mastery of communication skills, (spoken and written), the Teachers are blamed publicly and thus continues the downward spiral by more Politics effecting new and more convoluted "State Standards". >

(Comments...???)

;-D


8-D

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TimeLord04
Have TARDIS, will travel...
Come along K-9!
Join Calm Chaos

This page names of big numbers has everything you could want to know about the history of the two types of billions. Scroll halfway down the page for a list of countries where one billion = 1,000,000,000 and those where one billion = 1,000,000,000,000. The rest of the site has some other amusing obscure facts too, some more believable than others. ;-)

Simple... there would be no billionaires under the UK definition!

A billion now seems to be internationally accepted as 10^9, another example of infectious US culture.
Now if only we could teach them to spell "colour" properly, and understand the difference between "insure" and "ensure", "effect" and "affect"... etc etc etc!

It's my opinion that the education system in the United States is horrible. Americans (maybe Brits and Canadians too, I don't know) do not know when to use "effect" and "affect" as you have said, but they also do not know when to use "their," "there," or "they're." Ah, another example is the average American (even a college graduate!) doesn't know when to use "to" or "too." It's sad. Even more said is when I hear an American use "pacifically" to mean "specifically." Or, how about adding on those useless prepositions to the end of sentences, like, "What time should I call you "at?"

I think spelling differences like "color" and "colour" don't matter.

The effect that the recent solar flares had on my short wave radio was to effect the reception of signals. I was able to receive signals from the UK very clearly. However; once the flares subsided, the corresponding effect that had was to counter-effect the reception of signal(s) and I lost the UK on my short wave.

Also; while listening to the short wave and receiving the UK transmissions I became affected by the Accent of a woman's voice I heard. I fell instantly head over heals in love with the sound of her voice. I was counter-affected when the signal was lost to me and I went into withdrawal; longing for the next solar flare activity that would hopefully return the reception of her voice on that signal back to my short wave.

I believe I pass... (American schooling in action... Graduated High School in 1985. English was my strong suit. Continued doing well with English, grammar, and spelling... College was awesome. I even got into creative writing at the Junior College Level.)

Oh, and on color my favorite is red.

<NOTE: It also helps that my classmates were properly instructed on "how-to" properly use a dictionary in Third Grade. We were also assigned vocabulary words to look up the definitions in that dictionary and construct sentences with proper grammar.

Now; if you are commenting on my son's generation, (he is 13), that is an entirely different matter. It is unfortunate that the Politics in the Nation have effected the school systems of the Nation adversely. My son's classmates were NOT taught how to use a dictionary. Thus; his generation is more apt NOT to spell words correctly, NOR to use proper grammar in construction of sentences.

In defense of the Teachers; however, this is due to constant changes in Political schemes from year to year, (especially Election year to Election year), and "State Standards" that are created and/or changed on the fly by Politicians... These "State Standards" have been counterintuitive, and have tied the hands of many great instructors. Instead of being able to teach intuitively and give proper instruction to each student as needed/necessary; Teachers are now on a "Pacing Schedule" to get the "State Standard" Tests administered on time. This has forced Teachers to cut out the introduction of many of the Novels my classmates were introduced to in Third and Fourth Grades; and also, cuts out the assignment of "Vocabulary Word Lists" with "Dictionary" use...

Yet, as these children of today "fail" in their mastery of communication skills, (spoken and written), the Teachers are blamed publicly and thus continues the downward spiral by more Politics effecting new and more convoluted "State Standards". >

(Comments...???)

;-D


8-D

The effect that the recent solar flares had on my short wave radio was to affect the reception of signals. I was able to receive signals from the UK very clearly. However, once the flares subsided, the corresponding effect that had was to counter-affect the reception of signal(s), and I lost the UK on my short wave.

Also, while listening to the short wave and receiving the UK transmissions, I became affected by the accent of a womans voice I heard. I fell instantly head over heels in love with the sound of her voice. I was counter-affected when the signal was lost to me and I went into withdrawal; longing for the next solar flare activity that would hopefully return the reception of her voice on that signal back to my short wave.

I believe I pass... (American schooling in action... Graduated High School in 1985. English was my strong suit. Continued doing well with English, grammar, and spelling... College was awesome. I even got into creative writing at the Junior College Level.)

Oh, and on colour my favorite is red.

Words don't usually fail me...but yours did....

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I believe it was the French, rather than our American cousins, that made a mess of Billions.
Apparently they wanted a word for a million millon, and decided it was to be Billion. After this decision was made someone said, "Hold on we already have a word for a million million". So the French intellectuals, who liked the word Billion, decided to keep it but redefine it as thousand Million.
This was then taken on board by the Americans, because in that period the UK were not the flavour of the month. And now that the Americans, and their dollars, have become such a force in the world, most peoples assume that a billion is 10^9.

Wrong again, and there are 20 fluid ounces in a pint.

Andy

I believe it was the French, rather than our American cousins, that made a mess of Billions.
Apparently they wanted a word for a million millon, and decided it was to be Billion. After this decision was made someone said, "Hold on we already have a word for a million million". So the French intellectuals, who liked the word Billion, decided to keep it but redefine it as thousand Million.
This was then taken on board by the Americans, because in that period the UK were not the flavour of the month. And now that the Americans, and their dollars, have become such a force in the world, most peoples assume that a billion is 10^9.

Wrong again, and there are 20 fluid ounces in a pint.

Andy

...that is until the cretins in Brussels get their way and we end up drinking Boddingtons by the litre....

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I believe it was the French, rather than our American cousins, that made a mess of Billions.
Apparently they wanted a word for a million millon, and decided it was to be Billion. After this decision was made someone said, "Hold on we already have a word for a million million". So the French intellectuals, who liked the word Billion, decided to keep it but redefine it as thousand Million.
This was then taken on board by the Americans, because in that period the UK were not the flavour of the month. And now that the Americans, and their dollars, have become such a force in the world, most peoples assume that a billion is 10^9.

Wrong again, and there are 20 fluid ounces in a pint.

Andy

...that is until the cretins in Brussels get their way and we end up drinking Boddingtons by the litre....

Unfortunately they closed the original Boddy's brewery, and of course lost the water supply that gave it its distinctive flavour. Bring back the good old days and use only original imperial measurements.
See shoe sizes, most people, in the industry would agree that the UK, I was going to say English, sizes work best, they are based on barley corns.

Andy

It makes me proud there are so many American bashers out there, even in this community. "We" must be doing something right.

And yes, the English long ago eclipsed the French as our closest allies (second only to the Canadians). Some say that occured in the 19th century, but for me personally it could have been when that eccentric (to be kind) DeGaulle was trying to annex Quebec. And their track record since has been pretty consistent; oil-for-food anyone? how about nuclear non-proliferation?

So how all this affects/effects seti is not clear, but the point of this thread isn't clear anyway. Loosen up and live with our differences. And when in doubt use scientific notation and Arabic numerals (!!)

Long live the 20 oz pint; an English custom the US has yet to adopt!

(Of course, we get about 32 oz or more of our favorite beverage for the price of 20 oz there, so there is some equity.)

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May this Farce be with You

What a thread... Seems to me that there are more than a few differences of opinion on this...

The better question would be: "Why are there so many differences?"

The best answer I can come up with is a lack of communication across large distances...

Hopefully the internet will help to even out all of the differences in the way things are expressed... I am not sure if it will or not...

I live in the North East of the United States, and can tell you that you don't have to leave this area to run into communication problems...

You can go to just about any shopping mall in any any city and meet people from different country's. It is no wonder that things are expressed differently here...

I can agree that there are far to many differences in the ways that things are expressed, and numbers are just the tip of the iceberg...

Just thought I would chime in on this....

Scott

In the United States (Berkeley, which is SetiatHome Central, is in the western part of that country, just north of San Francisco, California), a quadrillion is 10^15. I usually type the number out to eliminate confusion.

Just a point of clarification from someone who lives just north of SF...Berkeley is actually just east of SF...which is why it's known as part of the east bay.

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What a thread... Seems to me that there are more than a few differences of opinion on this...

The better question would be: "Why are there so many differences?"

The best answer I can come up with is a lack of communication across large distances...

Hopefully the internet will help to even out all of the differences in the way things are expressed... I am not sure if it will or not...

I live in the North East of the United States, and can tell you that you don't have to leave this area to run into communication problems...

You can go to just about any shopping mall in any any city and meet people from different country's. It is no wonder that things are expressed differently here...

I can agree that there are far to many differences in the ways that things are expressed, and numbers are just the tip of the iceberg...

Just thought I would chime in on this....

Scott

Most of this thread has been about very large numbers, but we Americans in the U.S. have discovered a prime example of, and named a very low number as well, most commonly assocated with a persons IQ. I think the term is dubya;-)

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When we finally figure it all out, all the rules will change and we can start all over again.