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SADDAM HUSSEIN -- GOOD RIDDANCE
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mikey Send message Joined: 17 Dec 99 Posts: 4215 Credit: 3,474,603 RAC: 0 |
My Dear Mikey (I do NOT say that in any condescending way at all ...) See Bodley's response on that one, he was right on. Second, you do realize realize that Israel isn't the one doing the attacking, right? Israel has responded very forcefully to attacks made on Israel. Should be an easy lesson, don't attack Israel and you don't get hurt. They just want to be left alone. Easy enough Third, you do realize that the official position of those neighbors of Israel is the destrucion of Israel, right? So just how do you propose that they approach those neighbors? Can you offer a strategy that can possibly help with this dilema? Okay are you ready...see your answer #2! If Israels neighbors attack Israel they get hurt. No Nation wants that. So they have an incentive to talk. The problem is that Israel KNOWS that currently the US has its back! The neighbors of Israel KNOW this as well! Attack Israel and BOTH Israel and the US will be in your Country quick as Israel asks. IF the US were to back off from its postion of ALWAYS having Israels back, then the neighbors would know that and try and attack Israel. BUT if Israel were to try and negotiate a peace agreement, then it might work. It did in the past when US President Jimmy Carter got Egypt and Israel to work out a peace agreement once, it CAN be done again! |
Scary Capitalist Send message Joined: 21 May 01 Posts: 7404 Credit: 97,085 RAC: 0 |
How exactly is a nation like Israel supposed to 'deal' with their neighbors like Iran that have openly pledged to kill every Israeli man, woman, and child? Maybe they should just allow their enemies to kill just the women and the children..... That would be a compromise. Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data! I did NOT authorize this belly writing! |
mikey Send message Joined: 17 Dec 99 Posts: 4215 Credit: 3,474,603 RAC: 0 |
How exactly is a nation like Israel supposed to 'deal' with their neighbors like Iran that have openly pledged to kill every Israeli man, woman, and child? That is part of the 'art' of negotiating, making the other person think you have something they need and at the same time making them think that you are waaaay too tough to tangle with. If they will lose morethan they would gain by tangling with you and in fact have things to gain by dealing with you, you win and they win. The best of both worlds! |
Scary Capitalist Send message Joined: 21 May 01 Posts: 7404 Credit: 97,085 RAC: 0 |
How exactly is a nation like Israel supposed to 'deal' with their neighbors like Iran that have openly pledged to kill every Israeli man, woman, and child? Ohhhhh....the art of negotiating with those that want to kill you. Remind a murderer to try that out on your family sometime. You'd make a great SS officer. Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data! I did NOT authorize this belly writing! |
mikey Send message Joined: 17 Dec 99 Posts: 4215 Credit: 3,474,603 RAC: 0 |
How exactly is a nation like Israel supposed to 'deal' with their neighbors like Iran that have openly pledged to kill every Israeli man, woman, and child? You forget...Israel has THE BOMB and has threatened to us it before. The US also has THE BOMB and HAS used it before! Negotiating from a position of strength is an easy negotiation. |
Graeme of Boinc UK Send message Joined: 25 Nov 02 Posts: 114 Credit: 1,250,273 RAC: 0 |
Read on the news just now that they are "stoning the devil". I did'nt know that Saddams body was going to be center stage. Next.......... Graeme. |
Graeme of Boinc UK Send message Joined: 25 Nov 02 Posts: 114 Credit: 1,250,273 RAC: 0 |
No, I believe that they will hit him with the heels of their shoes. Graeme. |
BillHyland Send message Joined: 30 Apr 04 Posts: 907 Credit: 5,764,172 RAC: 0 |
How exactly is a nation like Israel supposed to 'deal' with their neighbors like Iran that have openly pledged to kill every Israeli man, woman, and child? Please study up on the effects of atomic weapons. You cannot threaten with nuclear weapons. You either use them as a truly ultimate last means of survival or you let your country be destroyed. If a nuclear weapon were used anywhere in the region there is a very high probability that fallout would poison Israel also. A Pyrrhic victory is still suicide. The only possible negotiating postion is the MAD (Mutually Assured Destrucion) stance. Unfortunately, this requires a sane negotiating opponent. I am sorry, but fanatics of any stripe do not qualify as sane by any measure. And fanatics that believe that if they can force you into a position where you must use such means for survival they win are on that razor thin edge between fanatic and psychotic. If you have a problem believing that anyone that leads a country could be such a borderline psychotic, then read transcripts of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's speaches in Iran and other Muslim countries. Don't bother with the US media because they sanitize his statements for a variety of reasons. Read translations from Al Jazzera or similar sources. You cannot "negotiate" at weapons point as your sole negotiating strategy. Soldiers and law enforcement officers are trained to draw weapons only with the intent to use them, never to threaten with. |
BODLEY Send message Joined: 19 Oct 06 Posts: 725 Credit: 130,841 RAC: 0 |
The only possible negotiating postion is the MAD (Mutually Assured Destrucion) stance. Unfortunately, this requires a sane negotiating opponent. I am sorry, but fanatics of any stripe do not qualify as sane by any measure. And fanatics that believe that if they can force you into a position where you must use such means for survival they win are on that razor thin edge between fanatic and psychotic. Hyland ... if you have a cogent and believable thing to say, then state it. Your post is crammed with supposition and your own view as to the sanity of the heads of state involved. I could easily say (with a FAR greater chance of success) that GW Bush is so dyslexically incompetent that he fails the test to be President. Either argument is unsustainable - and unsuitable in this forum. Please grow up and smell the roses! |
mikey Send message Joined: 17 Dec 99 Posts: 4215 Credit: 3,474,603 RAC: 0 |
How exactly is a nation like Israel supposed to 'deal' with their neighbors like Iran that have openly pledged to kill every Israeli man, woman, and child? Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is NOT the TRUE Leader of Iran. He is a puppet in charge of nothing but propaganda. The Mullah's are the REAL power and are starting to get real tired of his constant baiting of the West. The Mullah's realize that sanctions will probably put them back in the Stone Age and they NEED the West and its trade. Reports are surfacing that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is on his way out and will be replaced by a more moderate speaking individual. The IAEA may well be allowed back in and China and Russia are being courted to take over the enrichment of Uranium to ensure to the West that the reason is indeed power and not weapons. Time will solve these particular issues. The berating of Israel can be solved thru negotiations between the involved Countries in talks that have meaning and substance. Israel can provide a much needed local market for the goods of all of Israel's neighbors. It can also provide a conduit into the very lucrative US market. And from there to the rest of the World. |
BODLEY Send message Joined: 19 Oct 06 Posts: 725 Credit: 130,841 RAC: 0 |
I am just a click away from deleting this thread. I for one agree with you . It serves no useful purpose ... |
KD [SETI.USA] Send message Joined: 24 Oct 99 Posts: 459 Credit: 2,513,131 RAC: 0 |
Too bad he wasn't the worst of them to be met with a noose. Live by the sword, die by the sword... At the same time, I'm confident that there were plenty of polygicians world-wide pleased to see Saddam swing so quickly. Saddam can no longer air out their dirty laundry. I.e., American Republicans AND Democrats when Saddam was the lesser-evil during the Iraq/Iran war, French AND Russians during the Food-for-Oil kickback days, etc. |
BillHyland Send message Joined: 30 Apr 04 Posts: 907 Credit: 5,764,172 RAC: 0 |
Hyland ... if you have a cogent and believable thing to say, then state it. Your post is crammed with supposition and your own view as to the sanity of the heads of state involved. I could easily say (with a FAR greater chance of success) that GW Bush is so dyslexically incompetent that he fails the test to be President. Either argument is unsustainable - and unsuitable in this forum. Please grow up and smell the roses! Bodley, I didn't ask you to take my word for it, I asked you to do the research and pointed you at a starting point. Your argument about President Bush is a non sequitur. Do your research and then talk. |
KB7RZF Send message Joined: 15 Aug 99 Posts: 9549 Credit: 3,308,926 RAC: 2 |
Wow. |
GalaxyIce Send message Joined: 13 May 06 Posts: 8927 Credit: 1,361,057 RAC: 0 |
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Fuzzy Hollynoodles Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 9659 Credit: 251,998 RAC: 0 |
From BBC NEWS: Saddam Hussein's last moments Saddam hanging taunts evoke ugly past Not a nice story. People never change, apparently. "I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me |
3quarks Send message Joined: 19 Jun 03 Posts: 95 Credit: 354,773 RAC: 0 |
From BBC NEWS: As The Who Put it "Meet the new boss Same as the old boss" Well it just cost the UK and US billions of pounds and Iraq hundreds of thousands of lives to learn what we already knew. Humanity's a sad bunch. Happy New Year. Here's the full lyrics from The Who, which seem quite apposite. We'll be fighting in the streets With our children at our feet And the morals that they worship will be gone And the men who spurred us on Sit in judgement of all wrong They decide and the shotgun sings the song I'll tip my hat to the new constitution Take a bow for the new revolution Smile and grin at the change all around Pick up my guitar and play Just like yesterday Then I'll get on my knees and pray We don't get fooled again The change, it had to come We knew it all along We were liberated from the fold, that's all And the world looks just the same And history ain't changed 'Cause the banners, they are flown in the next war I'll tip my hat to the new constitution Take a bow for the new revolution Smile and grin at the change all around Pick up my guitar and play Just like yesterday Then I'll get on my knees and pray We don't get fooled again No, no! I'll move myself and my family aside If we happen to be left half alive I'll get all my papers and smile at the sky Though I know that the hypnotized never lie Do ya? There's nothing in the streets Looks any different to me And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye And the parting on the left Are now parting on the right And the beards have all grown longer overnight I'll tip my hat to the new constitution Take a bow for the new revolution Smile and grin at the change all around Pick up my guitar and play Just like yesterday Then I'll get on my knees and pray We don't get fooled again Don't get fooled again No, no! Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! Meet the new boss Same as the old boss |
GalaxyIce Send message Joined: 13 May 06 Posts: 8927 Credit: 1,361,057 RAC: 0 |
What the Iraqi government showed on video as what they wanted the world to see was so different to what actually happened. Deceit and lies. It goes on. And we think we are so wonderful, beyond this sort of manipulation and propaganda. Are we any better? There were just two questions about Saddam at the end. 1. Was he mad? Could he have been excused from his crimes due to mental health? 2. Did he believe that what he did was for God, for Allah, that what he did was right? It's not about what you believe, or whether he should have believed what the Sunnis believed, or what the Persians believed. Did he believe it, and was he rational, not mad? If he was mad pity him. If he wasn't mad, at least try to understand what he believed which caused so much destruction and evil. If you don't do either, then you aren't paying attention enough and your survival as a species is in yet more danger. flaming balloons |
GalaxyIce Send message Joined: 13 May 06 Posts: 8927 Credit: 1,361,057 RAC: 0 |
Quotes from tyrants: "Yours is a society which cannot accept 10,000 dead in one battle" - Saddam Hussein "The oppressed peoples can liberate themselves only through struggle." - Kim Il Sung "Who says I am not under the special protection of God?" - Adolf Hitler "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun." - Mao Zedong "It is better to sacrifice everything than to live in slavery." - Ho Chi Minh "I want your heart. I want to eat your children." - Idi Amin flaming balloons |
Captain Avatar Send message Joined: 17 May 99 Posts: 15133 Credit: 529,088 RAC: 0 |
Isn't this a Dead subject? :-) Whipping a dead Dictator? :-) |
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