I am a long-time (May '99) Seti fan and was quite irked (like many others) when everything (including the screen saver) changed. I had a difficult time adjusting (call me a traditionalist), as it all became a bit complicated to use. Let's face it! This new BOINC is not as simple to use as the old Classic, and the screen saver reminds me of a nauseating ride at the local county carnival! So, the reason for my letter; the screen saver. I started looking around and finally found someone (don't know the name, but I am grateful to this person) who took the time to put together directions on how to adjust some settings that will give the look of the old Classic screen saver. It isn't perfection, but it aint bad! In fact, it's pretty darn nice! I am pleased to be running Seti again. I am doing my part in the search to find...others! So for all you other dissatisfied traditionalists, follow this link: http://boinc-wiki.ath.cx/index.php?title=Screen_Saver_%26_Graphics_Display_-_SETI%40Home_Classic_%28Emulation%29 , print out the directions and enjoy once again!

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You do realize that the screensaver uses a large number of CPU cycles that could be best used to do the science, don't you? The best advice I can give ANY user is to install BOINC as a service and let it do it's thing.

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BOINC really isn't that hard to use. Sure, it isn't SETI Classic, but it does a helluva lot more then Classic ever did. It's a very nice upgrade that adds a lot of features that Classic should've had. I wouldn't go back to Classic if someone paid me to.

As for the screen saver, meh. It's best to use it without the pretty graphics, but if that's your thing...

It's all a matter of taste and perspective. I have a few users on my account that like the wobbling. There's many here that have said they don't. Six of one, half dozen of the other.

But thanks for sharing with those that have the same preference as yourself. Perhaps people can reference that link for the future complaints.

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It's wobbling because that way the screen saver won't burn in into your screen as the Classic screen saver would do.

When you're using an aquarium screen saver, do you also find ways to stop the fish from swimming off your screen? Were your Flying Toasters also static on screen?

It wobbles because that way it will not hurt your screen. That's the best thing about a good screen saver!

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I see that this has been answered already, but another thing to consider in this is the fact that the original SETI program was a "screensaver that also did work for science projects". The NEW SETI / BOINC is a program that crunches for science that also is a screensaver. In other words, the focus has changed. The major emphasis with the new boinc is it's ability to process work for different science projects. The "screensaver" is secondary to the science. (Matter of fact, not all projects even *have* a screensaver.)

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Jim

Some people plan their life out and look back at the wealth they've had.
Others live life day by day and look back at the wealth of experiences and enjoyment they've had.

What you want is a text stat applet that will come onto the screen, be still for
a time so one can read it, and then shift to another randomly selected place
on the screen. That saves the screen and allows the users to avoid getting
seasick trying to read the cavorting data, as well as minimizes cpu usage.

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You do realize that the screensaver uses a large number of CPU cycles that could be best used to do the science, don't you?

Yes of course! But those are MINE CPU CYCLES, and I am the person who decide what I'll devote it for.

the original SETI program was a "screensaver that also did work for science projects". The NEW SETI / BOINC is a program that crunches for science that also is a screensaver.

Ant that was the reason I beloved the classic SETI@Home client: by the fact that it was cool screensaver, which instead of simply waste CPU cycles for some cool effect, it serves for scientists and helps them in their work, which may be significant for entire mankind. Formerly scientists were giving me something for my donated CPU cycles, so everyone was happy. Now they only waits for CPU cycles and nothing in return. Formerly I felt like a helper, now I feel like a slave.

In other words, the focus has changed. The major emphasis with the new boinc is it's ability to process work for different science projects. The "screensaver" is secondary to the science.

Yes. The original SETI@Home project was focused on HOME USERS. "Let we give them some cool screensaver in proper they could devote us some CPU cycles of the IDLE TIME of their machines". Now the focus has changed from USERS to their GOODS only. Does the scientist recently become more greedy? :-P

Sorry, but in this moment my focus has changed also. You're losting many people already in the absence of the screensaver. Remember that this all masses of people not involved in science, got involved only because of that screensaver: They were using other screensavers all the time, so with your screensaver they were possible to do the old thing with the new feature and instead of waste that CPU cycles, they were possible to devote it to you. Do you really want to lost them?

Yes of course! But those are MINE CPU CYCLES, and I am the person who decide what I'll devote it for.

That is your choice. You can choose to donate to SETI or you can choose not to. Of course, we'd like you to continue, but it's ultimately your choice.

Ant that was the reason I beloved the classic SETI@Home client: by the fact that it was cool screensaver, which instead of simply waste CPU cycles for some cool effect, it serves for scientists and helps them in their work, which may be significant for entire mankind. Formerly scientists were giving me something for my donated CPU cycles, so everyone was happy. Now they only waits for CPU cycles and nothing in return. Formerly I felt like a helper, now I feel like a slave.

I have almost no idea what you said here, but all I know is you're trying to say that you don't get anything in return for running BOINC/SETI. This is not true, you get exactly what you got before - you do get a screensaver to use (if you choose and if it works) and you're donating to science.

Even SETI@Home Classic could be set to take all spare cycles even when the screensaver wasn't running. If you're only using 10% of your CPU, what's wrong with Berkeley getting the other 90%? If you need more, the program automatically releases whatever you need. So if you need more than the 10% your currently using (and you need all 100%), then SETI will back off and give your app what it needs. How is that being a slave?

And why don't I feel like a slave? I'm perfectly happy with BOINC and donating my spare cycles to the project regardless of the screensaver function.

Yes. The original SETI@Home project was focused on HOME USERS. "Let we give them some cool screensaver in proper they could devote us some CPU cycles of the IDLE TIME of their machines". Now the focus has changed from USERS to their GOODS only. Does the scientist recently become more greedy? :-P

And this new SETI@Home is focused on home users as well. They simply tried to incorporate more features that everyone was using as a third party app, such as the ability to cache WUs locally to maximize crunch time. They also invented a distributed computing infrastructure and released it as Open Source so that other scientists could use the same infrastructure without having to re-invent the wheel. Is that greedy to you? Nothing has changed to "their goods only". They have given us more with this BOINC/SETI than ever.

It seems to me the only problem is a misunderstanding by various people of the BOINC concepts.

Sorry, but in this moment my focus has changed also. You're losting many people already in the absence of the screensaver. Remember that this all masses of people not involved in science, got involved only because of that screensaver: They were using other screensavers all the time, so with your screensaver they were possible to do the old thing with the new feature and instead of waste that CPU cycles, they were possible to devote it to you. Do you really want to lost them?

No, no one wants to lose people when they need them for their help. However, can you prove that it's all because of what you state? Can you prove that you speak for the masses? What if people are leaving simply because with the high gas (petrol) prices they can't afford to run their computers all the time? Can you prove they only wanted the screensaver?

I think you're wrong here. I think that people weren't only in it for a screensaver (especially since screensavers really aren't needed anymore - you can save power and energy by having your monitor power down after a few mintues, which is much more effective than running a screensaver).

I can only speculate why some have left, but I cannot accept that one complaint can speak for the masses. Only the individuals can speak for themselves, not some frustrated user.

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You can choose to donate to SETI or you can choose not to.

Yes, I'm the chooser. But I remember the time when I haven't had to choose, because I WANTED TO participate. I was enchanted by the brilliant idea that running a simple screensaver I can help scientists with searching ET signals.

Now I come back after years because I want to do this still. And what I find?
Where is that good looking website stuffed with informations, introducing every guest into the arcanes of the project? Back then, the site looks live and informative. Now it looks like many other orphaned FS projects on the net, like someone wasn't payed enough.

I find a new software and that's cool, i think to myself: "Phew.. looks like it's alive hovewer, someone is working on it still". But only to the time I've tried this software... "Where is the CORE? Where is the screensaver?? None for Linux?? University's most used legendary OS unsupported?? AAARGH!! What's going on here?? Am I steel on my home planet??"

A while after I found a way to show some kind of "visualization" of the BOINC computings. But what's that?? It is a bird! No! It is a plane! Is it text, or part of these starry background?? Who changed my font to arabian?? And what's these moire patterns in that graph? Is it an alien signal??

Many hours later I've already found a way [thanx to these boards and users irritated like me] to emulate classic client's look&feel, but it's still not what I've remembered from older project. It isn't a screensaver any more, and even collides with the screensaver being set in my system. I have to run more apps at the same time than before, to get even not that good effect :( It's over my strenght :/

Of course, we'd like you to continue, but it's ultimately your choice.

I'd like it too, really. So I'll look here for a couple of months again, 'cause I still have hope :J

I have almost no idea what you said here, but all I know is you're trying to say that you don't get anything in return for running BOINC/SETI.

Maybe you're right, I'm dramatizing a little. I'm not a slave in the exact meaning, I still have option to get out. But is it an option at all? Not helping is not a satisfying option for me...

This is not true, you get exactly what you got before

I wish I could agree... More true would be that I get some part of what I got before [the ability to compute WU for SETI project], even with some bonus at that field, but some parts are missing [good screensaver, which was the beginning of the whole SETI@Home project].

you do get a screensaver to use

For Linux??? :| Where?? Maybe I really missed something.

and you're donating to science.

OK, I'm not gonna only complaining. I really wish to help you scientists. If there isn't any existing S@H screen-saver for Linux, and the source code for graphic visualizations are available, maybe I'll be able to rig up that screensaver [and godess help me :P]. I know some OpenGL / 3D graphics and SDL stuff, so maybe it'll be possible. In that case, can I count for some help with this if I'll need?

Even SETI@Home Classic could be set to take all spare cycles even when the screensaver wasn't running.

Yes, I knew that and used to do it some times. But doesn't it meat that the whole noise around that BOINC isn't all about the new computation possibilities?

I'm perfectly happy with BOINC and donating my spare cycles to the project regardless of the screensaver function.

Still forgoting that not everyone has that attitude and every person has its own interests. I'm happy that many people oriented for computing only ar able now to do the computations without unnecessary graphic. And that's good in BOINC - it's giving a choice. The only thing I wonder is: why not leave the old client [screensaver] only modifying it a few to work as BOINC client? Why that drastic changes which satisfies only that people who waited for screen-frying-proof screensaver and messes with the rest? I only wish that the choice would be equall for both sides. Software should evolve. If one part evolves and the other degrades, the result is always a group of pissed users complaining "where are that part I liked that much?!" ;J

And this new SETI@Home is focused on home users as well.

Yes, but not all home users. Only that most computational-oriented ones. Otherwise the others weren't complain.

They simply tried to incorporate more features that everyone was using as a third party app, such as the ability to cache WUs locally to maximize crunch time. They also invented a distributed computing infrastructure and released it as Open Source so that other scientists could use the same infrastructure without having to re-invent the wheel.

I agree that these are good improvements. [I forgot to explain that I'm the type of person that if not complains - that means is satisfied and happy ;)]. And still have an oppinion that it was possible to combine classic client with BOINC [with little improvements mentioned by you all].

Is that greedy to you?

You've best known that I meant that other part by saying that ;J

It seems to me the only problem is a misunderstanding by various people of the BOINC concepts.

Maybe you're right. That kind of info, that important to the whole S@H project, should be better exposed and explained on the S@H home site.

No, no one wants to lose people when they need them for their help. However, can you prove that it's all because of what you state?

No' I can't prove it. Just like new client's defenders can't prove that there isn't less/more people involved in S@H now after changes. But I've seen many complains and disaprobates from different people on these boards, so there ARE some people opting out BECAUSE of the new client. On the other hadn, tere isn't many people glorifying new software, many writes about problems with it. So maybe I'm not the only one? Maybe our silent voice in a noise shoud be also taken into consideration?

Can you prove they only wanted the screensaver?

I'm not talking in the name of all, only for myself and people I know. I remember that this screensaver was THAT THING which bring me [and many people in my country] to S@H project. Before that they weren't even know that S@H exist! This screensaver popularized S@H very good, because many people see it an think: "Hey! It's cool! I can install this and help those scientists without any big effort - just watching that screensaver time to time when my comp is idle :)". Win=win.

I think you're wrong here. I think that people weren't only in it for a screensaver

Did I say "only"? ;) I've explained that good in my other post already ;)
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=3317&nowrap=true#375019

especially since screensavers really aren't needed anymore

Aren't needed, but are used still for its visual flavours ;) And it can be very usefull also if they compute samples from Arecibo or medicine for a cancer ;> [yes, S@H weren't the only one - other organizations also catched up that brilliand idea].

I can only speculate why some have left, but I cannot accept that one complaint can speak for the masses. Only the individuals can speak for themselves, not some frustrated user.

The ones who complains are the ones who find it worthly to let you know what's wrong and why they're getting out. I suppose there are many others who tried this soft a while and abandonned it, or the others for which that change tipped the scale. It's not wise to disregard these voices, even if it's maybe minority at the moment.

SETI and BOINC are both breakthrough and leading edge technologies - come on guys; give it some time to evolve!

In saying that – there is also a lot of opportunity for BOINC and SETI to make their user interfaces more end-user focused. Plug-ins such as a personalize-able embedded Desktop application or a full Star Chart… just to name a few – these things will make it more appealing to the end user and would almost certainly drive an increase in end users.