Dogbytes,
If you look at the graphs for BOINC and all the top projects, Seti, CPDN, Einstein etc, they all show a similar decline in hosts. So stop trying to say it is a Seti problem because they brought out enhanced and you are not getting the inflated RAC due to the optimised apps before Enhanced.

Andy

Then what is the problem then? Where does it lay, I would be most interested to know. What caused this to happen then to BOINC? There are probably no simple answers but they could probably be found in a comprehensive survey. Just an idea if anyone is interested.

I think they're planning a questionaire. Dr. A posted this: (Dr. A is still developing this, so I edited out the address)

David Anderson to boinc_alpha
More options Jul 12 (21 hours ago)

We're developing a survey for BOINC users.
Please fill it out:
http://link to nothing, edited for my protection.net
The poll is in alpha test -
both the list of questions, and the code to store responses -
so please don't publicize the URL yet.
Let me know if anything doesn't work,
or if you think questions need to be changed or added.

-- David
_______________________________________________

Dogbytes,
If you look at the graphs for BOINC and all the top projects, Seti, CPDN, Einstein etc, they all show a similar decline in hosts. So stop trying to say it is a Seti problem because they brought out enhanced and you are not getting the inflated RAC due to the optimised apps before Enhanced.

Andy

Then what is the problem then? Where does it lay, I would be most interested to know. What caused this to happen then to BOINC? There are probably no simple answers but they could probably be found in a comprehensive survey. Just an idea if anyone is interested.

If it's across all projects, then it probably isn't related just to events at SETI.

My guess? Summertime.

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If it's across all projects, then it probably isn't related just to events at SETI.

My guess? Summertime.

Starting in mid-April?

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If it's across all projects, then it probably isn't related just to events at SETI.

My guess? Summertime.

Starting in mid-April?

I know. That's why it's a guess.

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I see that there is a discrepancy between Mariah's (Yes, that girl is cute in the face) graph of the number of actives and Toby's. Maybe we'll be able to see a seasonal trend within the next year. Also the actives piece of the piechart will continue to shrink with time even if the number of actives remains the same. The number of actives is the thing, not the number of those who have ever crunched.

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Yes, I noted that the numbers were slightly different due to us using different metrics for measuring "active" users. However the trend is very similar. The number of users is declining at about the same rate on both graphs. The reason I posted it is just to show the scale of the curve isn't quite as steep when viewed over a longer period

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A member of The Knights Who Say NI!
For rankings, history graphs and more, check out:
My BOINC stats site

Before we can start making statements like "why was this allowed to occur?" we need to find out for sure what actually happened.

It's really easy to say "well, the switch to enhance drove people off."

.... except that it appears that the change started about a month earlier.

It will be interesting to see if there is a jump in the fall -- when school starts up, vacations (or holidays) are over, etc.

... and on an unrelated subject, if you find a graphic that you like, that isn't copyrighted, put it on your own server where it uses your bandwidth. Putting a link to someone else's server is just plain wrong.

What concerns me is the dynamics of why the Seti project has lost so many crunchers (people/volunteers) in the recent past, and why the situation was allowed to occur.

As a matter of fact, I'm currently crunching Malaria beta (and some Rosetta) where the credit is a fraction of what I would be getting on most other projects especially those with optimized applications...so that is not the issue for me...wrong guess on your part Pappa.

Why bore everyone else with the Cr@p?

Perhaps that attitude has in some small measure something to do with the overall situation?

You hit the mark here Ned. User retention issues are in no way SAH specific, this is a general BOINC problem. In fact, even a cursory examination of the data presented on any of the stat sites indicates that for the top seven projects:

1.) User retention overall is down significantly over the last 60 days, and continues to fall.

2.) For the two projects which are level or rising, the sum total of their gains is only a fraction of the loss. This would seem to indicate that project hopping due to credit "whoring", flame wars, phases of the moon, whatever is not the driving force at work for any SAH retention problems.

In addition, these trends began long before the last round of unpleasantness either here or anywhere else, and before the summer season arrived here in the northern hemisphere. I almost wish Jack Gulley would jump in here, since he was the first SAH NC "regular" I recall mentioning the trends in user retention back in January.

I will admit seasonal fluctuations makes sense, but since this is only the second summer season with the BOINC system in full operation it's hard to draw any conclusions at this point. As you say, it will be interesting to see what happens in September.

In any event, here are my working hypotheses:

1.) The "fad factor" of BOINC and DC in general is wearing off for the general public.

2.) The feeling of futility for new users (or previous users) when they jump in and discover after a while that compared to the humungous numbers posted on the leaderboards and stat sites for some individuals and/or teams their contribution is infintessimal.

3.) Given 1 and 2, with the cost of electricity increasing, and all the other factors of participation taken into account, if they have no valid reason to have a machine running all the time, what's the point to long term participation. Obviously, "It's all about the Science" isn't the answer here.

Alinator

Wonder if what is really going on is the lack of results. Back in the Classic days we had lots of science notes. Today, who can even find out if there is anyone even looking at the result queue? If they want to retain users, it isn't numbers that will do it, it is interesting articles about what is being found or not found, how the project is going, what has been searched, what is left. Raw RAC numbers on a page isn't going to hold anyone's attention. Yes we know we are looking for a needle on a planet full of haystacks, but give us something. Find it. Find some other use for the data.

Wonder if what is really going on is the lack of results. Back in the Classic days we had lots of science notes. Today, who can even find out if there is anyone even looking at the result queue? If they want to retain users, it isn't numbers that will do it, it is interesting articles about what is being found or not found, how the project is going, what has been searched, what is left. Raw RAC numbers on a page isn't going to hold anyone's attention. Yes we know we are looking for a needle on a planet full of haystacks, but give us something. Find it. Find some other use for the data.

At least for me this is a reasonable hypothesis. I participate in three projects - Seti, CPDN and Predictor - neither of which nowadays is very communicative. I really yearn for periodically updated scientific information, in all projects, to show that someone really cares about what we deliver.

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Somewhat OT, but wouldn't an Anti-Strike be something/someone against strikes or going on strike? So wouldn't a SETI anti-strike be a bunch of people against going on strike against SETI?

Are they looking for the term SETI strike? Don't mean to nitpick, but... nevermind. I'll keep the rest of my opinions to myself.

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Wonder if what is really going on is the lack of results. Back in the Classic days we had lots of science notes. Today, who can even find out if there is anyone even looking at the result queue? If they want to retain users, it isn't numbers that will do it, it is interesting articles about what is being found or not found, how the project is going, what has been searched, what is left. Raw RAC numbers on a page isn't going to hold anyone's attention. Yes we know we are looking for a needle on a planet full of haystacks, but give us something. Find it. Find some other use for the data.

At least for me this is a reasonable hypothesis. I participate in three projects - Seti, CPDN and Predictor - neither of which nowadays is very communicative. I really yearn for periodically updated scientific information, in all projects, to show that someone really cares about what we deliver.

OK, I can accept that as an axiom. We'll call it 2A. :-)

Alinator

Oh Yea!!! One full week and the number of users is good as flat!



It might not be going up, but at least it's not going down! Trends going firmly straight is not entirely good, but it's definitely not bad, which is GOOD! And if the graph is not updating accurately, that's bad. However, it looks good! And looks is all that seemingly counts in this world for many people. lol

This is an OLD-ASS thread. Why not get rid of it already? Who ever takes care of these boards SUCK! Think it's time for a NEW moderator already...

I just do what my Rice Crispy's tell me to do....Don't shoot the messenger!

CRUNCH ONWARD BROTHERS & SISTERS

All threads are kept available so users can research a topic and possibly find their answers. Except those removed "for administrative purposes" (read-flame wars)

Oh Yea!!! One full week and the number of users is good as flat!



It might not be going up, but at least it's not going down! Trends going firmly straight is not entirely good, but it's definitely not bad, which is GOOD! And if the graph is not updating accurately, that's bad. However, it looks good! And looks is all that seemingly counts in this world for many people. lol

Just another point......
For those who take this downwrd trend as a platform to do a bit of Seti-bashing, you will note that the same downward trend applies to ALL Boinc platform projects, just look at the graph for Boinc combined stats. And that graph has not even levelled out......http://www.boincstats.com/charts/chart_uk_bo_project_active_users.gif
EDIT...You'll have to cut and paste the chart link, I'm afraid I don't know how to link it so the graph shows in this post, sorry.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

That works with the img tags -

<img>http://www.boincstats.com/charts/chart_uk_bo_project_active_users.gif</img>

Only you have to replace <> with [] like so:



HTH,
Simon.

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Donate to SETI@Home via PayPal!

Optimized SETI@Home apps + Information

That works with the img tags -

<img>http://www.boincstats.com/charts/chart_uk_bo_project_active_users.gif</img>

Only you have to replace <> with [] like so:



HTH,
Simon.

So, I get the link and manually add the bracketed img tag to it?

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

Well it is summer time, so some people have shut off their computers for vacation or heat related issues, I'm sure users will pick up again in the coming months...Interesting graphs!

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Human Stupidity Is Infinite...

It looks like a little bit of stabilization after the downtrend of the number of active Seti crunchers but not so with Boinc total. It's just a bit too early to see if school will halt the downtrend. School starts here Tuesday, I think, but not everywhere. We're down 1-1/2 degrees from our seasonal high (88/70) of the normal temperatures now. The Sun is just over eight degrees down from the solstitial max.

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It looks like a little bit of stabilization after the downtrend of the number of active Seti crunchers but not so with Boinc total. It's just a bit too early to see if school will halt the downtrend. School starts here Tuesday, I think, but not everywhere. We're down 1-1/2 degrees from our seasonal high (88/70) of the normal temperatures now. The Sun is just over eight degrees down from the solstitial max.

Within the next month it should stabilize, by then most schools would be in session...

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Human Stupidity Is Infinite...