copy from News on the front page of SETI@Home
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May 17, 2006
The costs of electricity, both monetary and environmental, are increasing. Be aware of the energy considerations associated with SETI@home and volunteer computing.
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They really should include the fact to point that there are many work units that some/many/whatever users will/may get that will error out somehow, thus the users will get no credit and the fact that the work unit provides no useful information as a whole. All on top of the fact that computer time was spent, electricity wasted, and with no gain to anyone because of work unit errors. (I think...)

I'm not suggesting anything, but rather supporting the point of that news article posted on May 17th... I guess that would be, "Be Aware". LOL (I need to open me another bottle of the good stuff. I'm not drunk enough.)

[take the below as a general 'to whomever' not to you personally]

edit---even a unit given out that doesn't meet quorum is productive as it prevents that unit from having to be sent to another computer, freeing that one up for a fresh unit.

edit----[Your/and or their] post is not specific to any individual's locale in sofar as a concern for differing and/or higher electricity costs for the region/country the hosts are in. What is it exactly that you are trying to make people aware of? That using a computer consumes electricity? Are you trying to assert that some crunchers should not participate?

Or are you asserting nothing at all and just desire to make all of us 'aware' that our computers use electricity or what?

I think humanity understands that ever since Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Edison, et al began the long chain of human production and ingenuity that makes electricity producable by mankind we've got a handle on the basics....

Perhaps you are only interested in people's electricity bills. If that's the case I would suggest that most people here have a handle on that. If they weren't capable of figuring that one out they wouldn't, by definition, be reading your posting as their bills are not paid.

---

Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Perhaps they should also point out that:

The chances of detecting ET in any WU are vanishingly small.

That there is a considerable body of scientific belief that says radio SETI isn't
the best way to detect ET anyway.

That the money invested globally in electricity etc to run SETI could maybe save thousands of lives.

It boils-down to your beliefs and choices if you run SETI or not.

Complaining about a few bad results is akin to complaining that one hasn't had a WU with the signal in it. It is the nature of the project. Crunching a WU, good or bad, uses resources and has a cost. You have all the information required for your cost/benefit decision.

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I've noticed my electric bill higher even after the first three weeks of operating these two Pentium D950 machines. And finding error-filled, non-productive 6-hour units is not a bit consoling!

---

I noticed a jump in my electric bill this month. This month was the first month I got my farm back up and running since we moved. Last month the bill was $135. This month it was 281. Given, it has gotten hotter, so the AC has been running more, but I wonder how much the farm has to do with it. I was told the other day that I need to retire the farm, and just go back to the computers that we actually use.. I will take a large RAC hit from that. Each computer gets about 100 credits a day, and there are 8 of them. But, right now I am broke, so I might have to do that.

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- cJ

the AC has been running more, but I wonder how much the farm has to do with it.

Even with 8 machines, the A/C would be a big percentage.
Unless you're running current systems, most PCs would use less than 200W at full load- even with the monitor on. Even a small AC will pull 1kW or more.


EDIT-
Just checked the load on my UPS. XP3200+ & an XP2600+ with a slight overclock, about 425W with the monitors off. One computer has 4 HDs- about 8-10W each.

---

Grant
Darwin NT

I also recently wondered how much power a computer consumes. I recently built a power meter an found that under load (using 3DMark2005), my system only pulled around 250W! Quizzical, after all, nVIDIA recommends a power supply capable of supplying around 350W-400W for a basic SLI system (I have two 6600GTs, AMD64 3000+ Winchester). With only BOINC running (ie. graphics systems not under stress), the system drew only 175W.

Surprised by the results, I built some dummy loads and tested the meter against an oscilloscope (Tektronix TDS210) and multimeter (Protek 506). Under a light load (100W), the accuracy was +/-10% and under moderate loads (500W) around +/-4%. The mutimeter and oscilloscope read within 1% of each other.

Nonetheless, the issue of power consumption is one that should be addressed and I congratulate BOINC for doing so, despite possible being "damaging" to the projects that it powers.

ylp88

I also recently wondered how much power a computer consumes. I recently built a power meter an found that under load (using 3DMark2005), my system only pulled around 250W! Quizzical, after all, nVIDIA recommends a power supply capable of supplying around 350W-400W for a basic SLI system (I have two 6600GTs, AMD64 3000+ Winchester). With only BOINC running (ie. graphics systems not under stress), the system drew only 175W.

Surprised by the results, I built some dummy loads and tested the meter against an oscilloscope (Tektronix TDS210) and multimeter (Protek 506). Under a light load (100W), the accuracy was +/-10% and under moderate loads (500W) around +/-4%. The mutimeter and oscilloscope read within 1% of each other.

Nonetheless, the issue of power consumption is one that should be addressed and I congratulate BOINC for doing so, despite possible being "damaging" to the projects that it powers.

ylp88

Congratulations to you, Grant and a few others here on not being taken in by the "specifications" on a power supply but actually measuring how much power it consumes! There have been others posting in various threads who have actually done this but it seems their posts have dropped off the current pages.
Yes, a lot of people just read a label and say that their equipment requires 450 or 550 watts and think that it does this all the time. However this is not true! The label on a piece of equipment tells how much power it can draw at it's maximum, with the cpu running wide open, all hard drives, cdrom drives, dvd drives, etc. reading and/or writing, the sound system playing at a high volume, etc. Now with some electrical or electronic products the label is true. An electric heater that only has one setting will draw the nameplate watts whenever it is turned on. A toaster draws it's nameplate watts whenever you are toasting your bread. However other items such as electrical motors, or heaters that have different settings, *and computers* draw different amounts of power depending on what settings are selected, the load on it, or other variables, so in these cases the nameplate watts is simply the *maximum* wattage that the equipment will draw. Many times (if not most of the time) the actual wattage draw is less.

---

Jim

Some people plan their life out and look back at the wealth they've had.
Others live life day by day and look back at the wealth of experiences and enjoyment they've had.

Jim R., you would make a good moderator....consider applying for the job.

I went ahead and ordered the "kill a watt" device. Should be here in a few days.

---

Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battle station. - Grand Moff Tarkin

I also recently wondered how much power a computer consumes. I recently built a power meter an found that under load (using 3DMark2005), my system only pulled around 250W! Quizzical, after all, nVIDIA recommends a power supply capable of supplying around 350W-400W for a basic SLI system (I have two 6600GTs, AMD64 3000+ Winchester). With only BOINC running (ie. graphics systems not under stress), the system drew only 175W.

Surprised by the results, I built some dummy loads and tested the meter against an oscilloscope (Tektronix TDS210) and multimeter (Protek 506). Under a light load (100W), the accuracy was +/-10% and under moderate loads (500W) around +/-4%. The mutimeter and oscilloscope read within 1% of each other.

Nonetheless, the issue of power consumption is one that should be addressed and I congratulate BOINC for doing so, despite possible being "damaging" to the projects that it powers.

ylp88

Did you take any account of phase angle in your measurements, or did you check that voltage and current waveforms were in phase. Normally with power meter this is measured and corrected. Simple multiplication of Volts and Amps on non purely resistive loads will not give the true wattage.

That aside I have measure two systems here with a commercial power meter, the Desktop Pent M 1.86 GHz, 2GByte memory, 6600gt graphics card, 2 * 160 GB HDD's and DVD burner uses between 87 and 91 watts or 96 to 104 Voltamps (VA).

The dual P3 933MHz, 512 MB RAM, old matrox millenium graphics and one 40GB HDD uses 105 Watts when running Seti and Einstein. Cannot remember VA reading but do know it was over 120VA.

I do know that my sons P4 HT, with 6 * HDD, 7900GT graphics will draw over 500 watts when running intense 3D graphics game. It peaks at nearly 600 watts at boot up. He did measure when running BOINC but he's not available at moment and I cannot remember figures.

Andy

I also recently wondered how much power a computer consumes. I recently built a power meter an found that under load (using 3DMark2005), my system only pulled around 250W! Quizzical, after all, nVIDIA recommends a power supply capable of supplying around 350W-400W for a basic SLI system (I have two 6600GTs, AMD64 3000+ Winchester). With only BOINC running (ie. graphics systems not under stress), the system drew only 175W.

Surprised by the results, I built some dummy loads and tested the meter against an oscilloscope (Tektronix TDS210) and multimeter (Protek 506). Under a light load (100W), the accuracy was +/-10% and under moderate loads (500W) around +/-4%. The mutimeter and oscilloscope read within 1% of each other.

Nonetheless, the issue of power consumption is one that should be addressed and I congratulate BOINC for doing so, despite possible being "damaging" to the projects that it powers.

ylp88

Did you take any account of phase angle in your measurements, or did you check that voltage and current waveforms were in phase. Normally with power meter this is measured and corrected. Simple multiplication of Volts and Amps on non purely resistive loads will not give the true wattage.

That aside I have measure two systems here with a commercial power meter, the Desktop Pent M 1.86 GHz, 2GByte memory, 6600gt graphics card, 2 * 160 GB HDD's and DVD burner uses between 87 and 91 watts or 96 to 104 Voltamps (VA).

The dual P3 933MHz, 512 MB RAM, old matrox millenium graphics and one 40GB HDD uses 105 Watts when running Seti and Einstein. Cannot remember VA reading but do know it was over 120VA.

I do know that my sons P4 HT, with 6 * HDD, 7900GT graphics will draw over 500 watts when running intense 3D graphics game. It peaks at nearly 600 watts at boot up. He did measure when running BOINC but he's not available at moment and I cannot remember figures.

Andy

My power meter compensates for phase angle by averaging the instantaneous power over a period of 11sec. My mutimeter and oscillocope are forced meause current and voltage separately and thus any shift in the phase angle should not affect the result.

EDIT: The fact that the power meter averages instantaneous power rather than using RMS values (ie. expecting a sine wave) also provide compensation if the power supply waveform is a modified sine wave, triangle, square etc... But I don't think my home's power supply is of such an "odd" nature anyhow.

ylp88

I shut down 6 crunchers today to see what that does to next months power bill. I wish I had the money to throw a couple new crunchers online to atleast get a better bang for my buck, but the boss wont let me since we just had a baby, just built a house, and just bought a new truck. I wish I could get a part time job, but then i'd have to pay for a babysitter. I only work 2 days a week so my mother babysits but 5 or 6 days a week is too much.. And we keep hiring new people so OT is going to the toilet. I just took up a new OT position, but it will prolly only give me 30 hrs a month... Which isn't much :(

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- cJ

I plugged in my new "kill a watt" device tonight and 4/5 of my farm is pulling about 300 watts total. Not bad. Works out to $15 a moth for the whole farm.

---

Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battle station. - Grand Moff Tarkin

I plugged in my new "kill a watt" device tonight and 4/5 of my farm is pulling about 300 watts total. Not bad. Works out to $15 a moth for the whole farm.

where/what is this kill a watt thingie? <---- technical term

---

- cJ

I plugged in my new "kill a watt" device tonight and 4/5 of my farm is pulling about 300 watts total. Not bad. Works out to $15 a moth for the whole farm.

where/what is this kill a watt thingie? <---- technical term

Kill A Watt, Electricity Usage Monitor go here Kill A Watt for more information

---

BOINC SYNERGY is an International Team and We Welcome All BOINC Participants!
BOINC Synergy Click to Join BOINC Synergy

My electric bills are more modest, Like at a high of about $100 and last month It was about $71, Water is $10 a month(pump charge), But I run a pair of Swamp Coolers and they require water and very little electricity, I did get a new refigerator this year as My old one was 18 Years old and My income is really low so It was free. I only have two PCs and the slower of the two has only 1 of the 2 cpu sockets filled and in November I plan on spending $9,695.00 in New hardware, Some is for Me to build a new AM2 type PC, The rest is to outfit two others(one is online with only one cpu currently) and to upgrade one other with a new cpu. The bulk of the Money I'll be spending will go on a house and land($66,000 total, I hope), Car repairs, buying a new TV, AT&T Cordless phone, used Gas Dryer, used upright freezer, Recliner, Queen size bed(old one has about had It) and Repair an old Sears Kenmore vacuum cleaner, That and I have to have money to live on and money to move with as My inheritance from late Aunts trust fund is $85,500 and sometime in August It will finally be able to send Me Her last gift tax free to Me. Oh and I said to live on and that's for 3 months as I'm both physically(Right Hip, Knees & both Ankle Joints(a fall broke My lower left leg in 2002 & I have 3 titainium screws there, hence 1 ankle problem, the other ankle is from no rehab), eye sight, arthritis, thyroid(output below normal), weight(I'm down to 359.6lbs from 385)) and mentally disabled(anxiety, concentration) as I receive SSI and I'll be 46 in July. I wear prescription glasses and use a cane.

I use Crunch3r's 5.5.0 client and Crunch3r's 5.12 SSE2 app on top of the standard 5.4.9 Boinc install and I don't have too many problems with It either, I wish Boinc would adopt His Client and app though the install program should install the proper app for the cpu or at least give one a choice after displaying what the cpu is capable of doing and which one should do the job the fastest. As I noticed that on the same WU one guy with an Intel P4 2.80GHz cpu running XP Pro(Microsoft Windows XP Professional Edition, Service Pack 2, (05.01.2600.00), a 32bit OS) did It in 37,172.38secs to complete using 5.2.13 and I did the same WU in 12,832.48secs using 5.5.0/5.49/5.12-SSE2 with an AMD Opteron 270 cpu running at 2.36GHz, Of course It says My OS is Microsoft Windows 2003 Professional Edition, Service Pack 1, (05.02.3790.00) When It is really Windows XP Pro x64, a 64bit OS.

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The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's

...
I use Crunch3r's 5.5.0 client and Crunch3r's 5.12 SSE2 app on top of the standard 5.4.9 Boinc install and I don't have too many problems with It either, I wish Boinc would adopt His Client and app though the install program should install the proper app for the cpu or at least give one a choice after displaying what the cpu is capable of doing and which one should do the job the fastest. As I noticed that on the same WU one guy with an Intel P4 2.80GHz cpu running XP Pro(Microsoft Windows XP Professional Edition, Service Pack 2, (05.01.2600.00), a 32bit OS) did It in 37,172.38secs to complete using 5.2.13 and I did the same WU in 12,832.48secs using 5.5.0/5.49/5.12-SSE2 with an AMD Opteron 270 cpu running at 2.36GHz, Of course It says My OS is Microsoft Windows 2003 Professional Edition, Service Pack 1, (05.02.3790.00) When It is really Windows XP Pro x64, a 64bit OS.

Don't think thats going to happen, ever. Did you see forum_thread.php?id=31485#327995.

Andy

Congratulations to you, Grant and a few others here on not being taken in by the "specifications" on a power supply but actually measuring how much power it consumes! There have been others posting in various threads who have actually done this but it seems their posts have dropped off the current pages.
Yes, a lot of people just read a label and say that their equipment requires 450 or 550 watts and think that it does this all the time. However this is not true! The label on a piece of equipment tells how much power it can draw at it's maximum, with the cpu running wide open, all hard drives, cdrom drives, dvd drives, etc. reading and/or writing, the sound system playing at a high volume, etc. Now with some electrical or electronic products the label is true. An electric heater that only has one setting will draw the nameplate watts whenever it is turned on. A toaster draws it's nameplate watts whenever you are toasting your bread. However other items such as electrical motors, or heaters that have different settings, *and computers* draw different amounts of power depending on what settings are selected, the load on it, or other variables, so in these cases the nameplate watts is simply the *maximum* wattage that the equipment will draw. Many times (if not most of the time) the actual wattage draw is less.
____________
Jim

But jim, total max wattage is good to use for total possible draw on the circuit. This way you are never over , but usaully within a 40% to 60% load when it comes to computer systems and circuits. Always good to have that extra there on the circuit load setup.

But yes as for how much the differance can be, The machine I am typing on right now has a Dual 600 Watt supply setup in it(its redundent). But even at full load it is only drawing 235 watts.

So for use it is best to find the full power pull of the system.

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Talking of psu's to fit the system do any of you know of a maker of silent 200watt psu's that are reliable but don't cost an arm and a leg.

I have built several multi-media units for friends but best I can come up with are passive 350Watt units by makers like Antec or Silverstone (very expensive). The MM units use 120 watts max at mon=ment but do have room for some expansion, like HDD's.

Andy