Do we have a Boinc virus?


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Message 248761 - Posted: 16 Feb 2006, 1:57:20 UTC - in response to Message 248755.
Last modified: 16 Feb 2006, 1:58:31 UTC

Martin,
I've been watching you post for about a year or so...... I'm starting to think you just might be a linux fan... LOL

Have you only just noticed?... ;-)

The real scary thing is that in all that time, noone has given any good excuse or defence for the Microsoft side of things.

And be quick with your own mind before the new Microsoft "DRM" stuff forever locks your existance to be "Microsoft"! (Half-a-laugh :-( )

Let me know as your research continues...!

Cheers,
Martin
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Message 248771 - Posted: 16 Feb 2006, 2:15:39 UTC

Whatever you have to say about MS Windows you have to admit that it is the most popular OS on this planet. More boxes are running windows than any other OS. Now whether that is deserved or good marketing you have to decide.


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Message 248812 - Posted: 16 Feb 2006, 4:28:53 UTC - in response to Message 248755.

In contrast, Microsoft Windows continues to be an infested compromised nightmare!

Regards,
Martin

Martin,
I've been watching you post for about a year or so...... I'm starting to think you just might be a linux fan. I have more time to continue to watch though and will know for sure in a year or two. LOL

tony



yeah but Martin uses Mandrake. WTF

(mildly concealed fishing trip for a distro war).

LOL


Martin: Geeter Dun! ;p

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Message 248828 - Posted: 16 Feb 2006, 5:21:42 UTC - in response to Message 248771.

Whatever you have to say about MS Windows you have to admit that it is the most popular OS on this planet. More boxes are running windows than any other OS. Now whether that is deserved or good marketing you have to decide.



great marketing.

Just like Harley Davidson motorcycles...

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Message 248857 - Posted: 16 Feb 2006, 6:55:22 UTC - in response to Message 248761.

The real scary thing is that in all that time, noone has given any good excuse or defence for the Microsoft side of things.

It would be a wasted effort.
There are none so blind as those that don't want to see.
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Message 248885 - Posted: 16 Feb 2006, 10:27:20 UTC - in response to Message 248857.

The real scary thing is that in all that time, noone has given any good excuse or defence for the Microsoft side of things.

It would be a wasted effort.
There are none so blind as those that don't want to see.


Give it a shot....go ahead.

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Message 248908 - Posted: 16 Feb 2006, 12:39:26 UTC - in response to Message 248857.
Last modified: 16 Feb 2006, 12:40:55 UTC

The real scary thing is that in all that time, noone has given any good excuse or defence for the Microsoft side of things.
It would be a wasted effort.
There are none so blind as those that don't want to see.

Indeed so. And then also, there are other reasons why honest people "don't see".

I work with Windows and Linux on a daily basis, all as user, developer and sysadmin. I can say that I see the systems from all sides.


Have you been blinded by the Microsoft marketing? Or is Microsoft all that you know and have ever known?

Unfortunately, for most people at home (and in small business), "computers are Microsoft" and nothing else exists... Hopefully, more people will become aware that there are very good alternatives to the Microsoft world.


So where does your viewpoint come from?

Regards,
Martin
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Message 248911 - Posted: 16 Feb 2006, 12:50:38 UTC
Last modified: 16 Feb 2006, 13:07:30 UTC

A lot of good observations are being made here regarding operational systems, but there is nothing new in this debate. I agree that there are better OS's out there than what is offered by Microsoft. Last year I got my first Mac. I am still in the learning curve about Unix based systems.

What I'm getting at is that it takes a lot of time for a person to change over to a new and unfamilar system. It goes something like this, better the devil you know than the one you don't. I would like to learn about Linux, but frankly, I just don't have the time. I think that the majority of people are in this situation in one way or another.

Blurb over.
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Message 248924 - Posted: 16 Feb 2006, 13:25:36 UTC - in response to Message 248911.

A lot of good observations are being made here regarding operational systems, but there is nothing new in this debate. I agree that there are better OS's out there than what is offered by Microsoft. Last year I got my first Mac. I am still in the learning curve about Unix based systems.

What I'm getting at is that it takes a lot of time for a person to change over to a new and unfamilar system. It goes something like this, better the devil you know than the one you don't. I would like to learn about Linux, but frankly, I just don't have the time. I think that the majority of people are in this situation in one way or another.

Blurb over.


Did you check out Apples new laptop? NICE

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Message 248931 - Posted: 16 Feb 2006, 13:52:47 UTC
Last modified: 16 Feb 2006, 14:23:29 UTC

Possibly adding more fuel to the fire here, but here are my experiences with the Linux/winblows situation.

Linux:
In the past two years (when I bought a new hd) I have made *One* reinstall of linux of my own computer, *not* due to a virus or anything but due to upgrading to a newer distro (slackware 9.1-->slackware 10.2). Could have just upgraded but had installed a lot of programs that I just didn't need anymore so I did a complete wipe and reinstall to erase them. A friend of mine has had two linux boxes running 24/7 for over three years with no problems outside of the above mentioned upgrade. (Upgraded due to speed improvements and added features. Not from a "this program requires at least linux ver XXX to run" or from a virus.)

Winblows:
On my own computer at least *three* complete reinstalls of XP Professional *due* to viruses in the last year. This is not even counting the reinstalls where I just installed over the old os thinking I would get rid of the virus by deleting the old installation and installing again. Winblows allowed the virus to write to a hard disk sector so that it reappeared after the new install.
A friends computer has had at least *six* complete reformats and reinstalls, also due to virus infections. (He would install Linux but it's his father's computer that runs their company database.)
And the following instances have happened within the last six months:
My neighbor had her son in law to reinstall winblows due to "slowing down" of her computer but it didn't help. She brought it to me and I found it infected so I had to do a complete reformat and reinstall.
By wife's cousin caught a virus and I had to do a format/install.
I've got my daughter's computer sitting here right now that has over a hundred "viruses/problems" reported by an *older* version of virus scan software. I'd hate to see what it would report with an updated virus tag file! She has asked me to completely wipe winblows from her computer and install Linux!

Also, I have a DSL modem positioned where I can see the front panel data lights. In Linux, the light never blinks unless I'm actually browsing the web or my chat program pings the server. In winblows, that light is blinking repeatedly every few minutes. What does winblows have that is so important to talk about all the time? I don't even run any chat program in winblows to ping any server! Makes me wonder!
BTW, I have gotten in the habit of *never* using winblows to surf the web. I now only use that for playing certain games that just won't run under Wine. (And when they get Wine upgraded to the point that will run "Jet Fighter IV" or they come out with a Linux version, then I'm wiping winblows off of my hard drive and saying "good riddance"!!! That will get me a lot more disk space to use under Linux!)

Quite a record isn't it?

Also, someone made the distinction between the "ma and pa" user and the "computer savvy" user. I consider my friend in the latter category since he run Linux on two of his machines and has become quite good at it even if he does call me for help occasionally. (I'm the one that introduced him to Linux) And I consider myself in that latter group since I've been using dos since ver.2.2 and winblows since ver.3.0, and used "minix" before there even was a "Linux"! And my friend and I have *both* caught viruses in winblows! So don't tell me that it's only the users who "don't know any better". The "computer savvy" user might not get as many viruses as someone less "in the know", but it *still WILL happen*!
One more point and I'll shut up.
Why is all the virus scan software written for winblows? Probably because there's no profit to be made writing a program that just isn't needed!
I'll shut up and get down off my soapbox now! Haha! :-)
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Message 248994 - Posted: 16 Feb 2006, 16:44:16 UTC

James,

I run AntiVir under Linux. Not for my system, but to check any inbound email before it passes on to postfix/sendmail. Not becausse I want my system to be virus free, as they don't affect my linux boxes, but I dont want to pass anything back upstream that might have something.

As far as surfing the web...well...those infected websites don't hurt my Linux box anyway...

Good post!
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Message 249015 - Posted: 16 Feb 2006, 20:44:52 UTC - in response to Message 248994.



As far as surfing the web...well...those infected websites don't hurt my Linux box anyway...


Those infected websites don't hurt my Windows box either.

... but I never use Internet Explorer on a site that I did not develop.

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Message 249017 - Posted: 16 Feb 2006, 21:00:27 UTC - in response to Message 248750.

Your earlier statement was (paraphrased) that the OS should decide what could or could not be "run" -- and at that point the discussion degraded into a semantic argument around words like "install" and "execute" and that argument continues with this post.

Going back to this post I'll ask again: who should be allowed to decide what runs on your machines?

That's the wrong question.

The OS system architecture can be designed such that you can use your computer and surf the web in any way you choose and be free from Microsoft style viruses and other malware.

If a user wishes to install specific new software, that can be done also and secured with digital signatures.

Here we have two possible scenarios. You could have the installer program refuse to accept anything other than signed programs from trusted repositories. Or you could allow anything (and so risk deception to install malware).

That second case can be made so blatent and obvious so as to make deception very difficult and hence unlikely.

And with all that, you can still have gimicky web applets and other "executables" run and all safely restricted so that they cannot replicate and cannot do other than minor non-permanent irritation.

I've already said that Linux for example isn't perfect. However it is good enough that there are no viable viruses of any kind "in the wild" that I know of. In contrast, Microsoft Windows continues to be an infested compromised nightmare!

Regards,
Martin

I'm not arguing that Windows is "safe" or that Linux isn't. They're as safe as the person administering the box.

... in all of your arguments, it seems to come back to "Linux is safe because someone decides what goes on the machine" and all of my arguments have been "what if the person who decides makes a mistake?"

In a corporate environment, it is possible to lock down Windows to the point that the user can't install anything.
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Message 249018 - Posted: 16 Feb 2006, 21:12:59 UTC - in response to Message 249015.



As far as surfing the web...well...those infected websites don't hurt my Linux box anyway...


Those infected websites don't hurt my Windows box either.

... but I never use Internet Explorer on a site that I did not develop.


Why don't you use IE?



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Message 249029 - Posted: 16 Feb 2006, 21:34:38 UTC - in response to Message 249018.



As far as surfing the web...well...those infected websites don't hurt my Linux box anyway...


Those infected websites don't hurt my Windows box either.

... but I never use Internet Explorer on a site that I did not develop.

Why don't you use IE?

For the same reason most Linux users don't log in as "root" when they're merely using the machine.
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Message 249032 - Posted: 16 Feb 2006, 21:39:37 UTC - in response to Message 249029.



As far as surfing the web...well...those infected websites don't hurt my Linux box anyway...


Those infected websites don't hurt my Windows box either.

... but I never use Internet Explorer on a site that I did not develop.

Why don't you use IE?

For the same reason most Linux users don't log in as "root" when they're merely using the machine.


Really? isn't IE built into MS Windows?



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Message 249108 - Posted: 16 Feb 2006, 23:02:55 UTC - in response to Message 249032.



As far as surfing the web...well...those infected websites don't hurt my Linux box anyway...


Those infected websites don't hurt my Windows box either.

... but I never use Internet Explorer on a site that I did not develop.

Why don't you use IE?

For the same reason most Linux users don't log in as "root" when they're merely using the machine.

Really? isn't IE built into MS Windows?

Isn't the root account built in to Linux?

(and in any recent version of Windows, you can disable IE)

Again, the point isn't that Windows is perfect -- or that Linux is better or worse. The point is that ultimately, the person who administers the machine has choices. They can choose to use the root account all the time if they wish.
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Message 249348 - Posted: 17 Feb 2006, 12:09:36 UTC - in response to Message 249108.



As far as surfing the web...well...those infected websites don't hurt my Linux box anyway...


Those infected websites don't hurt my Windows box either.

... but I never use Internet Explorer on a site that I did not develop.

Why don't you use IE?

For the same reason most Linux users don't log in as "root" when they're merely using the machine.

Really? isn't IE built into MS Windows?

Isn't the root account built in to Linux?

(and in any recent version of Windows, you can disable IE)

Again, the point isn't that Windows is perfect -- or that Linux is better or worse. The point is that ultimately, the person who administers the machine has choices. They can choose to use the root account all the time if they wish.



My point was that for you to surf safely, you had to go outside and get a 3rd party application. Even if your using an unpriviledged account on your windows machine. IE is unsafe. Maybe I don't really have a problem with Windows...my problem is with Microsoft and their half a$$ development.


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Message 249399 - Posted: 17 Feb 2006, 16:53:33 UTC
Last modified: 17 Feb 2006, 16:54:37 UTC

Ok I have 5 boxes all with WIN XP 1 is home the rest are Pro, one reinstall over the last two years, and it was my fault, so me thinks you LINUS users need to look in the mirror. FOAM IS AT THE READY ;0)

Oh I was going to try UBUNTU, but I saw this http://www.ubuntu.com/usn
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Message 249407 - Posted: 17 Feb 2006, 17:11:16 UTC - in response to Message 249348.


Isn't the root account built in to Linux?

(and in any recent version of Windows, you can disable IE)

Again, the point isn't that Windows is perfect -- or that Linux is better or worse. The point is that ultimately, the person who administers the machine has choices. They can choose to use the root account all the time if they wish.



My point was that for you to surf safely, you had to go outside and get a 3rd party application. Even if your using an unpriviledged account on your windows machine. IE is unsafe. Maybe I don't really have a problem with Windows...my problem is with Microsoft and their half a$$ development.


... and with Linux, I have the option of using a Linux-developed browser and not some third party application like Firefox?

But, we're back talking about the technology, and the problem is a people problem.

For every system, there exists some person who can do something stupid and the system will be vulnerable as a result.

It's a social problem. There are more windows desktops, so the odds of finding a windows desktop foolishly run insecurely are higher.
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