When God calls on a believer, the believer puts the past behind them and begins looking to the future...
Unfortunately for the believers, the nonbelievers obsession with the past remains unchanged...

Am I wrong? I don't think so... And quite frankly, as a believer, I find it slightly annoying... ;)

Retired Paralyzed Veteran

My testimony sums it up

This is the beggining as we know it of the written language, long before "God" was invented, but not far from around the time monotheism in general was considered 'the in thing'.

even the 10 commandments are a farce, not only are they recycled frm several religions before the concept of modern God was around, notice how nice and tidy it is that the ones created by god were conveniently destroyed and moses had to re write them as punishment. oh and the all knowing god apparently didnt say it right in the first lot so the 2nd lot was more descriptive, including details on property ownership e.t.c.

i am not fully ruling out the existence of a creator, but the notions and rules that we believe in as our god (islam, christinsanity) is a load of rubbish and i wish we could just get over it..

our god (islam, christinsanity) is a load of rubbish and i wish we could just get over it..

Ever hear the phrase: 'One mans junk is another mans treasure'... ;)

I am proud to be paralyzed rather than able to walk because I would be dead by now due to my lack of faith at the time of my accident and I was a mean troubled hell raiser that could care less about anyone. I believe for a fact that God saved me and gave me a new perspective on life and after dying 4 times and seeing what I have believe me there is a God wether you believe it or not. My testimony sums it up. I'll be out of bed on Monday the 28th. Bless You for your comments.

Upon my senior graduation, I joined the United States Navy in December of 1974 and was placed on inactive duty for six months. I arrived at the Great Lakes Naval Recruit Training Center on June 26, 1975 -- the day before my 19th birthday. As you can guess, there was no party; just a new haircut. At first I thought Boot Camp was a living nightmare. It wasn't at all like the Summer Camps that I looked forward to when I was in Boy Scouts. After my first month of training it got much better. I was there for twelve weeks and graduated from Basic Training on September 12, 1975. It was well worth the effort in the end because I was then given my first leave which was two weeks long.

So, I hopped a flight out of Chicago's O'Hare International Airport and went home to Indianapolis. When I arrived at the airport in Indianapolis and made my way through the terminal, I saw my mother walking in my direction. She didn't notice me at first, but once she realized that I was her son, she gave me a hug and a kiss, but she didn't have to say a word for me to know how proud she was of me. There I was -- standing in my dress blues and looking as handsome as ever! I was no longer the little boy she had known, but the man she knew I would become. We went home and I spent the next three days visiting with her and my best friend. I was certainly glad to get a good home-cooked dinner, too!

By that time, my parents had long been divorced, my father had remarried, and my brother was living with him. So, on September 15th, my mother gave me her car which enabled me to go visit my dad, stepmother,brother, stepbrothers, and stepsisters. They lived in Fairborn, Ohio, which is just a few minutes from Dayton, Ohio. My stepmother is Lois Ann Willis and she has two sons and two daughters of her own. They were all glad to see me and I was glad to see them, too. I had planned to stay only overnight, but since I had eleven more days of leave, I decided to stay one more night.

Little did I realize that my lifestyle was about to change forever because I stayed that second night. My father asked me if I would go pick up my brother from work.

I had nothing else to do, so I said, "Sure, as I got my keys to the car.

It was the night of Sept. 17th. I arrived at my brother's workplace at 11:00 p.m. and handed him the keys. I said, "You drive and I'll tell you all about my Basic Training."

We were on a dark, damp, paved road in the country -- away from a lot of the traffic. It was a two-lane road with farmland on both sides. As we rounded a curve, the rear of our car started to slide on the damp pavement. I fell against my door and it opened. I grabbed hold of the door's arm rest and held on with all of my might, but that wasn't enough! The G Force was pulling me out! My brother tried to regain control of the car with his left hand. At the same time, he leaned over and tried to pull me back into the car with his right hand. It was no use! The car began to spin. I looked under the car, but within seconds I knew that if I didn't let go, I would be smashed in half by the car door and a barbed-wire fence, being killed instantly. Immediately, I let go and ended up -- face down -- in a muddy ditch with the car straddling the ditch directly above me. My brother was okay.

He got out of the car and I heard him yell, "Mike, where are you?"

Answering him, I cried out, "I'm under the car and I can't move!"

He thought I was kidding around at first, but when he realized that I was telling the truth, he pulled me out and sat me back in the passenger's seat. Then, he got into the driver's seat and tried to get us back on the road, but the car was stuck in the ditch. There were no cars or homes in sight! We waited for about a half hour before we finally saw a car heading in our direction. My brother repeatedly flashed the headlights off, on, off, on, off, on. He then pressed on the horn to get the driver's attention! When the car stopped, a man and woman got out of it and approached us. Because the woman was a nurse, she knew that I had broken my neck and was near death.

I am very confident that this whole religion was made up by some unga bunga shaman

Considering the times, that must've been one smart unga bunga shaman... ;)

I love you no matter what you believe. You are still considered my brother and I can still pray for you and everyone. As we are all entitled to our beliefs. Fair and square.

I would rather live life like I believe in God and find out that there is not, than to live life like I didn't believe in God and find out that there is.......

BOINC batches uploads and downloads to make things easier on the servers. Since SETI@Home handed out a bunch of short workunits recently (2hrs or less), this can give the appearance of a lot of work piling up and not being uploaded when finished. Rest assured, they will be uploaded, but it won't necessarily be every .5 day. The "connect to" preference only tells BOINC how often you're connected to the internet, but if you're always on, BOINC will keep trying when it needs to.

I'm not certain if you are calling me the hypocrite or someone else.

just because the Allies may have used atomic weapons to "instill [...] fear and terror", does not negate Robert's comment that "As a national policy, torture is repugnant and indefencible", though it might suggest other policies are also repugnant and indefencible.

What you are doing is connecting individual circumstances with systemic policies to make a case for torture.

As an individual, you just might perform these actions in defence of your children and in the end will face a jury of your peers.
As a national policy, torture is repugnant and indefencible.

If a democratic nation does not reflect the ideals of its citizens then its not very democratic.

What country is peopled by a citizenry that has torture as one of its ideals? If it's dear old blighty I'm glad I left when I did.

I'd like to think I'd defend my children against a vigilante such as yourself, and that my kids would be subject to due process. I'm afraid the path you advocate appears to lead ultimately to lawlessness, where the rights of others are a secondary consideration to those of me and mine.

lol, why on earth would you need to defend your children against me? that makes no sence at all i ONLY advocate violence in defence.

Umm, "i would think nothing at all of shredding a person inch by inch if i though it would save my kids." doesn't sound to my hears to be a defensive action.

As for the victor writing history, just how many Vietnam movies does a person need to see before realizing that this tired cliche is simply not true?

I'm saying that for even one muslim [snip] there are thousands upon thousands that do not want or desire to harm anyone else.

About 25% of the worlds population is Muslim, and that number is growing by the minute...

The subtle irony is that the negative propaganda has actually done a service for Islam... ;)

(For those who disagree, KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!)

That would be the 'negative propaganda' engendered by the openly terrorist style operations you have OPENLY supported in these boards, Jeffrey?

I wonder what would happen if I ever advocated by implication, insinuation, whatever what you do in the name of Christianity or atheism or White Supremacy.

I would PROBABLY BE BANNED FOR LIFE.

Scary...could you please show where Jeffry has OPENLY supported terrorist style operations in here.

I think this is being very harsh on someone who has quietly stated his opinions and never come across as a real crazy. Ya, he has issues, but until you've walked a mile in his shoes you shouldn't minimize his contributions.

Granted, he sometimes snipes from the rooftops with his commentary but it's still more subtle than the Gordie Howe elbow in the mouth posting style of others in here.

I won't dig deep into his post history. You could do that if you were so inclined. I won't do it. I could better spend my time answering your questions about other things that are worthy rather than answering his. You know what I'm talking about.

And you and everyone reading this knows also that I'm making a great point too, he's the self proclaimed 'muslim heckler'.

He states as much. I'm sad about it.

So what if Jeffrey's a muslim?

Actually, I'm a college degreed, honorably discharged military vet, white american born citizen, who is unemployed...

But let us not worry about the 'important' stuff... ;)

I'm a college degreed

honorably discharged military vet

white american born citizen

who is unemployed

I'd like to think I'd defend my children against a vigilante such as yourself, and that my kids would be subject to due process. I'm afraid the path you advocate appears to lead ultimately to lawlessness, where the rights of others are a secondary consideration to those of me and mine.

What you are doing is connecting individual circumstances with systemic policies to make a case for torture.

As an individual, you just might perform these actions in defence of your children and in the end will face a jury of your peers.
As a national policy, torture is repugnant and indefencible.

<Bobby> As for your original example (the gang kidnapping your children but leaving one of their number behind), again this fails to meet my criteria for the use of torture, you have no idea how much of the gang's plans this individual is aware. To stretch things a little, the person left behind may have been pressed into such activity in fear of his/her own life (such things do happen), and was left behind purely because his/her knowledge is worthless but the gang felt that the authorities would waste time on interrogation.

Well I doubt that you, Scarry, and most other
"Self Righteous" ...

I hope your New-.... At least then....

Well after considerable thought I realize that I really do owe some posters,
and mods here an APOLOGY.
I should know by now that that what one says, what one is trying to say, and
what is understood, are three separate entities.
This may be what Marshall McLuhan alluded to when he coined the phrase,
" The Medium is the Message".
Forums for the most part are a poor substitute for dialogue, hence the ambiguity.
In dealing with the limitations that a forum presents, demonizing those you
disagree with, though often self-gratifying, is seldom ennobling or productive.

Robert, Sirius B, Qui-Gon, and any-one else I may have offended by my outburst
of "Self Righteous Indignation", and Everyone else, please accept my humble
apologies.

The Best to You, and All You hold Dear, this New-Year!

lol if you dont like bill gates buy yourself a mac..sure thats fair 80% of my software doen not work on a mac, bill gates should not be the only route to personal computing, but he is, this is a prime example of "You seem to forget that the free market economy (or as close as we can get) spawns competition" NOT working as he has such a monopoly that the only possible competition is freeware like linux, totaly defying the concept of 'business' competition.

linux lives because its free or next to free, if the charge was as much as windows for every copy, i wonder wht kind of share of the market they would have, you can garuntee it would be a hell of a lot less than it is now.

os2 has been the only true rival in modern history and that was a short lived waste of time thanks to Mr Gates immense marketing machine.

YOU said business competition, I merely said competition and Linux is a VERY good example of a large portion of the populace being unpleased with Microsoft and OS version whatever they are up to now. As I stated about the ignorant earlier. Teach yourself how to utilize different operating systems or write the next best thing rather than trying to dictate how someone else conducts their LEGAL business.

As far as Linux not being a close equal and only continuing to exist because it's mostly free...well let's just say your ignorance (lack of knowledge, not stupidity) is showing again...

Rent Increases
Are you looking at a rent increase? Well, the bad news is that there is no rent control in Washington State. The Tenants Union was formed in the late 70’s by folks who got a rent control initiative on the Seattle ballot; but the big landlords wildly outspent us and the initiative lost. The landlords’ association then ran to Olympia and got a statewide law passed saying that no city or county can pass any kind of rent control.

Have I misunderstood this? Am I ignorant? Or are people being swindled by a broken system? ;)

I'd throw you out on the street before I let you decide what I will charge for MY property.

Get a job and buy a house of your own if you don't like it.

in principle i agree with you, but there are a few consideration.

firstly, small companies and private enterprises SHOULD have the right to dictate their own terms of business, but i do believe there also should be some regulation when it comes to actual companies and conglomerates, who have the fiscal power to shape the entire market to their benefit and the detriment to customers and small businesses alike.

secondly, those of us with a little understanding of real life business, know there is a great deal of difference between a buyers market and a sellers martket, there should be at least a little regulation on sellers markets.

otherwise lets face it, bill gates would have us all over a barel once a week for our regular shafting, and as we know thousands of people are dying faster and more painfuly because of legal wrangling over copyright protection on aids medicine.

i dont feel OVERLY passionate on this matter but it is food for though on how the financial world should be.

You seem to forget that the free market economy (or as close as we can get) spawns competition. Buy yourself a Mac if you don't like Bill Gates...as far as AIDS medication, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

i guess what i was trying to say, is it would be nice to hear what bobby felt in his own words

I believe I've stated my own views in this thread. To summarize, torture can only be acceptable if the person conducting (or ordering it, etc) it *knows* the person being tortured has knowledge that will cause greater suffering that s/he is suffering, and that the torturer (or the person ordering the use of torture, etc) does not have this knowledge already. However, such a situation is virtually impossible for me to imagine. It is not enough to suspect the person to be tortured has the information, as the suspicion could well be wrong.

As for modern quotes, I noted the wording of the Geneva Conventions here to which the Western democracies have all signed.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety
Benjamin Franklin.

thats good bobby, you have given us quotes from dead people in times gone by.
how about you give us a quote from bobby on current affairs =p

OOOO...unfair jab.

The truth remains just as valid no matter how long ago it was presented.

The examples cited by some of our more fervent posters as justification for torture are simply attempts to place those opposed to torture in a no-win situation. If one lives by their principles a loved one dies and if one performs the torture a loved one lives.

Rent Increases
Are you looking at a rent increase? Well, the bad news is that there is no rent control in Washington State. The Tenants Union was formed in the late 70’s by folks who got a rent control initiative on the Seattle ballot; but the big landlords wildly outspent us and the initiative lost. The landlords’ association then ran to Olympia and got a statewide law passed saying that no city or county can pass any kind of rent control.

Have I misunderstood this? Am I ignorant? Or are people being swindled by a broken system? ;)

I'd throw you out on the street before I let you decide what I will charge for MY property.

Get a job and buy a house of your own if you don't like it.

It might behoove you to read the title of this thread before showing us just how often you open your mouth without any knowledge concerning the topic at hand.