Posts by Luke Skywalker

1) Message boards : SETI@home Science : Photon count (Message 211186)
Posted 12 Dec 2005 by Profile Luke Skywalker
Post:
One mad person after the other trying to say that there are civilizations out there that have nothing better to do than sending us radio signals with the power of entire stars.



Whether they are out there or not, is not currently known. That is the experiment. Welcome to science.

No one knows if they are there. What is undisputable is that with a little hard work (over many years) we can determine, for sure, whether or not they are broadcasting something we can detect. That work starts with the current SETI@Home.


Well Redshift, if you have a "hypothesis" and you try to test that idea by using other people’s money and time, I suppose that it is fare to discuss the plausibility of the hypothesis? By the way, I have a hypothesis that there exist super civilizations out there that are so advanced that they have learnt to communicate with ESP and all I have to do is to sit down and perceive the information. Of course, I need some funding from the government first…
2) Message boards : SETI@home Science : Photon count (Message 208793)
Posted 10 Dec 2005 by Profile Luke Skywalker
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Everyone. I don't want to offend anyone, but I think the discussion here includes somewhat farfetched arguments. For example: Let's say that our level of technology today was that the best radio telescopes we could build had the same sensitivity as a normal "Walkman radio". I don't think many people would believe that we could receive alien signals with those “telescopes”, but I guess that it still will be a few persons that could come up with the arguments that there are probably some civilization that has captured the energy of an entire galaxy and converting that to a narrow band of radio signal just to send it to us.
/Luke Skywalker (OK, I’m a Star Wars fan, but I still think that Old George actually made it all up…)
3) Message boards : SETI@home Science : Photon count (Message 208753)
Posted 10 Dec 2005 by Profile Luke Skywalker
Post:

IAirbuster, I don't think you have read my post clearly. I said "IF THIS IS TRUE (and I hope it is not)"....Don't sign up here 3 weeks ago and start flaming me for nothing.

Robert, I think he was talking to me. Again, I'm not trying to convince people to stop participating. I'm only trying to keep both of my feet on the ground at the same time as I'm discussing a serious topic. What do I get? One mad person after the other trying to say that there are civilizations out there that have nothing better to do than sending us radio signals with the power of entire stars./Luke
4) Message boards : SETI@home Science : Photon count (Message 208443)
Posted 9 Dec 2005 by Profile Luke Skywalker
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Honestly, I'm getting reeeeealy tired of all the wierdos that have watched too much of Star Trek and Star Wars...
See you in Rosetta when you grow up!
/Luke
5) Message boards : SETI@home Science : Photon count (Message 206839)
Posted 8 Dec 2005 by Profile Luke Skywalker
Post:

Our own technological history has trended toward higher overall energy usage, not less. The Space Shuttle uses a lot more energy than a convoy of donkey carts. The street lamps of London leak more light skyward today than the gas lamps did a hundred years ago. Although individual devices tend to become more efficient, the sum total of energy expenditure goes up.

Of course, a very efficient civilization might find a way to capture and recycle most of its waste energy. Most SETI projects operate on the assumption that the alien civilization is not intentionally hiding from us.

The next generation space shuttles will consume much less energy for take-off. The next generation solid-state silicon-carbide based streetlamps of London will consume a fraction of today's. My mobile phone consumes 1% of the power my dad's mobile did in the 80's. Technology improvements reduces energy consumption. Economical improvements increases energy consumption. I'm not blaming anyone for using their CPU time on extremely unlikely events, I'm just saying that I will use mine on projects that will make a difference.
6) Message boards : SETI@home Science : Photon count (Message 206451)
Posted 8 Dec 2005 by Profile Luke Skywalker
Post:
But who says that they are limited to our level of technology?


Indeed. Given x billion years in this galaxy, it is unlikely that two civilizations would meet in the short time (few thousand years) during which they have current-human-like technology. So, statistics say we are FAR more likely to encounter civilizations which are hundreds of thousands to millions of years more advanced than us.



Meanwhile, I let my PC:s work in the Rosetta-project instead�


No. The current seti can detect the mega civilizations...those that are so technologically adavanced they would seem god-like to us. They might do things like harness entire stars to use as batteries, fission entire planets, etc...which might give off suspicious tera-tera-tera watt transmission we can pick up. Keep searching.


An INTELLIGENT civilization, far more advanced than ours, has already harnessed the fusion power or even better local sources. It doesn’t need to beam energy. If they for any reason would do this, they would not convert it to microwaves. As far as I understand, which might be a severe limitation, technology improvement tends to reduce power consumption not the opposite. Why would any civilization beam tera-tera-tera watts in a narrow band towards us? I’ll spend my CPU cycles on more plausible programs until I get a reason to search for non-intelligent mega civilizations.
7) Message boards : SETI@home Science : Photon count (Message 205837)
Posted 7 Dec 2005 by Profile Luke Skywalker
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Richard, thank you for your input. I'm not sure if I follow your thoughts completely, but I can't see a reason for an ETI-spieces to beam microwaves to their home planet unless they are in war with someone down there and that we accidentally got into the line of fire. This extremely improbable event would occur quite a short period as I see it. This sums up to be so unlikely so it is not even worth discussing. If they do it for energy reasons I could think of better ideas (how about mirrors instead of converting the power?) and this would not be possible to detect as radio signals. I think I need to ask you to explain your starship idea. Meanwhile, I let my PC:s work in the Rosetta-project instead…
8) Message boards : SETI@home Science : Photon count (Message 205407)
Posted 7 Dec 2005 by Profile Luke Skywalker
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Yes Octagon, a photon view is indeed not a good way to describe the actual measurement situation. However, I still think it is a good way of describing the energy or perhaps the power that the telescope has to be able to detect. I can't see that you address the actual question: -is it possible to detect ordinary radio transmission even from our nearest star?
9) Message boards : SETI@home Science : Photon count (Message 190894)
Posted 20 Nov 2005 by Profile Luke Skywalker
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Thanks for your comment. I will check that book!
/Skywalker
10) Message boards : SETI@home Science : Photon count (Message 188541)
Posted 13 Nov 2005 by Profile Luke Skywalker
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Hi again. Thanks for your input. Actually, I have corrected an error in my first estimation, but it made it all even worse. We can expect less than one photon every 24 hours if we think of a radio source with a spherical distribution. A directed emission? Perhaps, but at this wavelenght the antenna has to be extremely large to transmit the beam of photons such that the intensity became, lets say, one million times stronger. Why would someone do that? And if so, they have to be quite good at aiming to hit us. With a million times stronger signal we will end up with 7-8 photons every second per square meter. Consider that this is from our nearest star (4.2 LY away). If you think about stars (planets) being 10 times further away, the intensity drops by factor 100. If the frequency is 1 GHz instead, the number of photons drops by factor 10. Has anyone seen this topic being discussed before? Please give me a hint of where I can find the thread. Regards, Luke.
I think the question is interesting. The result would depend strongly on whether the emission is directed (such that a small beam contains all the energy) or non-directed. A directed beam can concentrate much more photons in a smaller area (or volume).
Hi
I've been thinking about the possibility to measure the signals from an "intelligent" radio source. For simplicity I used examples from our own radio technology. Let�s say that we have a radio transmitter sending at 100 MHz with 10 kW power. If that radio source was placed near the closest star to us it would give us a photon count of approximately one photon every 3 hours on a square meter. Is that really possible to measure with the radio telescopes and the settings they use for this project?


11) Message boards : SETI@home Science : Photon count (Message 188432)
Posted 13 Nov 2005 by Profile Luke Skywalker
Post:
Hi
I've been thinking about the possibility to measure the signals from an "intelligent" radio source. For simplicity I used examples from our own radio technology. Let´s say that we have a radio transmitter sending at 100 MHz with 10 kW power. If that radio source were placed near the closest star to us it would give us a photon count of approximately one photon every 3 hours on a square meter. Is that really possible to measure with the radio telescopes and the settings they use for this project?





 
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