When will the West stop pandering the Israeli government?

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Message 2127328 - Posted: 21 Oct 2023, 20:33:01 UTC - in response to Message 2127311.  
Last modified: 21 Oct 2023, 20:47:39 UTC

... it's as simple as that...

Very much not simple at all when you have Iran and Russia, for their games of uncompromising world domination, desperately stirring the cauldron with fuel, weapons, and hate.

There is also Qatar in there festering in the mix in support of Iran...

Add into that a very deliberate financed program in Gaza to give birth to as many children as possible, who are then Hamas-indoctrinated, to attack and destroy all and anything Israeli.

There is now a generation there of angry teenagers spewing mindless biblical hate...

... Hence the gut wrenching atrocities spewed out with over 5000 random rockets and worse. That attack, and the atrocities, has touched the entire world.

Even for myself here far away in the UK, I have directly heard and felt the results. For one of my friends here, her parents were on the receiving end of one of those rockets overnight, their local time. By chance/luck, they survived. Their lifelong friends and neighbours in the nearby houses did not.


Our world is very widely connected. The hate generated by the Hamas atrocities, and by the generated conflict, goes worldwide.

And Hamas are puppets of Iran and Russia.


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Martin
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Message 2127329 - Posted: 21 Oct 2023, 20:45:25 UTC
Last modified: 21 Oct 2023, 20:59:10 UTC

Unfortunately, we have deadly games at play.

Except... This is for very real people.

The forgotten Israeli hostages kept by Hamas in Gaza for years
wrote:
The anguish over some 200 people kidnapped by Hamas in its brutal attack on Israel is in the spotlight - but Hamas has been holding at least two Israelis for years...

... seized in 2014 and 2015 respectively.

The relatives of two dead Israeli soldiers are also tormented by the fact that Hamas has been holding their remains in Gaza since 2014...

... Israel is now determined to wipe out Hamas and is inflicting huge casualties and damage on Gaza with air strikes. So any new prisoner swap would be both difficult and controversial. As the Gaza death toll mounts, Palestinian fury at Israel intensifies...

... [And] such prisoner deals with Palestinian kidnappers were "a political issue" and in the current emergency, with so much Israeli anger directed at Hamas, "it's not going to happen, it's impossible"...

... Tzur Goldin, brother of the late Hadar Goldin, whose remains are still in Gaza, has urged Israel to adopt a clear policy to tackle Hamas kidnapping.

"Kidnapping is directed against families and is designed to break up societies. We have become accustomed to a certain security situation, to a certain conduct. We have become accustomed to it being convenient for the captives and the missing to be on the sidelines," he said, quoted by Israel National News - Arutz Sheva.

"There is a round of fighting, followed by silence, followed by another round and more silence."...



And from some of the interviews I've seen, there is extreme motivation and passion for Israel to be rid of Hamas.

There is a very potent and extremely highly motivated army there waiting to take very direct action.

Stay safe folks?
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Message 2127331 - Posted: 21 Oct 2023, 20:58:35 UTC

And there is the otherworldly war of propaganda:


How Israel-Hamas war disinformation is being spread online
wrote:
The video shows a young boy in a black T-shirt apparently lying in a pool of blood on the ground...

... The clip has been viewed about 2 Million times on X, formerly known as Twitter. It was shared by a verified user with the caption: “Video showing Israel attempting to create fake footage of deaths.” In fact, the clip is a behind-the-scenes shot from a Palestinian [made] short film...

... It seems to have originated on TikTok before finding its way to X – but while the original TikTok post now appears to be unavailable, on X it has continued to circulate...

... It is far from a one-off. Since Hamas launched an attack on Israel on Saturday morning, X has been flooded with disinformation and misinformation that has heightened tensions across the globe...

... A doctored document suggesting that Joe Biden ... was viewed 400,000 times. The faked memo was an edited version of the US president’s July memo...

... Russia has been a longstanding culprit for spreading disinformation on X, and appears to have been capitalising on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict...

... On Tuesday the European Commission issued a letter to Musk warning him over alleged disinformation on X about the Hamas attack on Israel, including fake news and “repurposed old images”....

... “Social media platform companies like Meta and X have clear responsibilities under international human rights standards, such as the UN guiding principles on business and human rights, and these responsibilities are heightened in times of crisis and conflict.

“Social media firms are responsible for identifying and responding effectively to risks and taking effective measures to limit the spread of harmful content – the amplification of which can lead to human rights abuses. However, all too often, big tech companies have failed to step up in the face of such emergencies, enabling hate and misinformation to proliferate.”...



How do we undo the hate?

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Martin
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Message 2127341 - Posted: 21 Oct 2023, 23:15:46 UTC

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Message 2127346 - Posted: 22 Oct 2023, 0:41:12 UTC
Last modified: 22 Oct 2023, 0:42:01 UTC

I do not read the other posts, but that the Palestinians should distance themselves from Hamas.

Just being poor is not the same as conquest of land when it could be only wars for such a thing.

The borders of Israel is set by the United Nations, and that the Gaza Strip is self-governing Palestinian territory.

Because of that they also should respect such a thing when still being oppressed and not having any sovereign state.

Also that the nation of Israel was established by the United Nation as well for a compensation for Holocaust.

The Second World War in Europe needed help from the United States to finish, except still only being an undeclared war.

Therefore not any finished for only the conditions it became.

I think that other nations should better agree for not any quarrel, because that should be the best solution.
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Message 2127347 - Posted: 22 Oct 2023, 0:46:58 UTC
Last modified: 22 Oct 2023, 0:49:34 UTC

And when that of Politics, also evil being allowed to post about.

But only for being a Sequence next also created and that evil and destruction could be interacting.

So here evil created for just only part of nature for still destruction also happening, and nature for its origin could be a different thing.

I could still wipe a couple of tears for not any cynical instead, but that it should be still only for nature.
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Message 2127348 - Posted: 22 Oct 2023, 0:48:08 UTC - in response to Message 2127346.  
Last modified: 22 Oct 2023, 0:49:11 UTC

... I think that other nations should better agree for not any quarrel, because that should be the best solution.

I agree.


However...

We have some crazy despots at play who care nothing of being agreeable.

Indeed, the crazy despots controlling Russia, Iran, Hamas, and Hezbollah need to have a war to have a reason to stay in power... (And to continue to enjoy their lavish corrupt lifestyles...)


How do we reign in Iran and Russia?

Market/Political sanctions seem not to be working...


And then we have Qatar financing Hamas and Hezbollah. Unfortunately, Qatar supplies a lot of gas to power the world of economics and pollution...

How do we make the politics of the despots less deadly?


All in our deadly world...
Martin
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Message 2127349 - Posted: 22 Oct 2023, 0:49:00 UTC - in response to Message 2127348.  
Last modified: 22 Oct 2023, 0:51:22 UTC

Martin, it becomes their Politics, and next only for separate.

Democracy is only a way of governing for also that of Dictatorship, and next it becomes Anarchy not having such a thing.
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Message 2127350 - Posted: 22 Oct 2023, 0:50:31 UTC - in response to Message 2127349.  

... Until their politics all too often spill over into the rest of the world...

Especially so whilst their politics is to conquer the world...


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Message 2127351 - Posted: 22 Oct 2023, 2:27:22 UTC
Last modified: 22 Oct 2023, 2:30:11 UTC

I do not completely agree with you on Russia, ML1, because I think Putin has rational senses left.

The sad thing is that he lost senses on Ukraine, and here it becomes completely wrong.

Only that Putin thinks he is a tsar, and following in the same footsteps.

Also that China is following a mixed doctrine which does not make it to an aggressor all the time either.

Rather that some other people in the hierarchy could be nicknamed "demagogs".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgy_Zhukov

If having the name correct, this was an outstanding man who knew what freedom is, and here he liberated northern Europe.

The sad thing is that it is Ideologies which makes decisions and for one thing it could be Democracies and for the other Autocracies.
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Message 2127354 - Posted: 22 Oct 2023, 4:23:43 UTC - in response to Message 2127348.  
Last modified: 22 Oct 2023, 4:26:46 UTC

And then we have Qatar financing Hamas and Hezbollah.

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-does-a-militant-group-like-hamas-get-its-money-2023-10
Oct 21, 2023,
Experts estimate that Hamas has an operational budget of more than $300 million.

In addition to the charitable fronts, Matthew Levitt, a former counterterrorism intelligence analyst at the Federal Bureau of Investigation, told Insider that international support, mainly from Iran, has been "the one big constant" in Hamas' funding, estimating that Iran contributes between $70 and $100 million a year to support the militant group.

But while Hamas' control of the Gaza territory has grown with financial support from Iran, so has the group's capability to earn money from the land it controls. As with many terrorist organizations that control swaths of land or trade routes, Hamas gets funding through taxation, extortion, smuggling, kidnapping, and robbery, Asal told Insider.

When Qatar — with Israeli and US acquiescence — was giving money to pay for salaries in the Gaza Strip, Hamas was able to tax that," Levitt said.
so the largest pot of income for Hamas recently has not been Iran; it's been controlled territory, and the ability to make money off of that: probably in the $300-400 or $450 million range."

In the wake of Israel declaring war on Hamas, the US has pledged $100 million in humanitarian aid to Palestinians, which The Wall Street Journal reported may ultimately end up in the hands of Hamas due to its control over the Gaza Strip.

Such aid is meant to provide drinking water, food, and medical care, "but money is fungible," Alex Zerden, a former senior US Treasury national security official, told the Journal.


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Message 2127360 - Posted: 22 Oct 2023, 13:25:51 UTC - in response to Message 2127354.  

Such aid is meant to provide drinking water

International aid has done that, using metal pipes that the terrorists find are just the right diameter to make rockets.

Therefore, no pipes left to transport water to the needy Palestinians.
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Message 2127366 - Posted: 22 Oct 2023, 18:05:33 UTC - in response to Message 2127360.  

Small diameter plastic pipes next time?

... Or... Far better...

No Hamas or other radicals for a "next time"?...


Be excellent to one another!

Stay safe folks!
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Message 2127367 - Posted: 22 Oct 2023, 18:15:15 UTC
Last modified: 22 Oct 2023, 18:19:31 UTC

There remains the question of "what" afterwards?

How can the 2 million or so indoctrinated and traumatized prisoners of Gaza, that were born in Gaza and know only the small world of Gaza, somehow be rehabilitated?

How can a few million weary and traumatized and fearful Israelis be allowed to feel secure and at peace with their genocidal neighbours?


The concrete walls of Arkham merely delayed this latest round of atrocities against them...

(The backstory for Arkham City looks to be an all too horrible real world parallel to how the "Palestinian Liberation Organization" has rule over the Palestinian areas. Do we need new people with less corruption to replace the old?... On BOTH sides of the concrete walls?)


Be excellent to one and all.

Stay safe folks!
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Message 2127380 - Posted: 22 Oct 2023, 22:02:16 UTC

This would help a lot.

The End of Netanyahu.

.....Israelis do not forgive failures to secure their safety. Golda Meir left politics after the debacle of the 1973 Yom Kippur War, in which Israel lost nearly 3,000 soldiers following a surprise Egyptian and Syrian attack. Her name is reviled by some in the country to this day. But what happened on October 7, 2023, was worse than what happened on October 6, 1973. Meir lost soldiers—people who had purposely put their lives on the line. Netanyahu lost civilians—the people the state and its soldiers were supposed to protect.

The polls reflect the public’s outrage. In response to Hamas’s slaughter, Israelis have rallied around the flag, but not around Netanyahu. In one survey of Jewish Israelis, 86 percent of respondents—including 79 percent of government supporters—said that the catastrophic assault from Gaza was a failure of the country’s leadership. Fifty-six percent said that Netanyahu should resign after the current war ends. Electoral polls are even bleaker for the prime minister. The latest survey has the current hard-right coalition shrinking to just 42 seats out of 120, compared with 78 for the opposition—an astonishing collapse. Only 29 percent of voters said that they felt Netanyahu was still fit to be prime minister.

This anger has reverberated in the streets. Victims and survivors have berated government ministers during hospital visits to the wounded. The headquarters of Likud, the ruling party, was defaced with fake blood and pictures of Israeli hostages. Netanyahu himself reportedly aborted a speech to army reservists after some in the crowd heckled him. Eighty percent of Israelis want him to publicly take responsibility for the events of October 7, something he has not done.....
There are many snakes about and Benji IMHO is the worse of the lot who needs to go as his policies have brought this latest conflict to fruition.
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Message 2127382 - Posted: 22 Oct 2023, 23:28:29 UTC - in response to Message 2127380.  

And amongst the human snakes, there is Abbas and his PLO...

How come he is not in the news?

How is it that the PLO are so silent??


Note that despite the letters "PLO", this is no black comedy sketch from Monty Python... Where is Brian to save the day?


There is a more widespread need of reform needed for any peace to have a chance...


Be excellent to one another.

Stay safe folks!
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Message 2127386 - Posted: 23 Oct 2023, 0:01:45 UTC - in response to Message 2127382.  

How is it that the PLO are so silent??

The Zionists destabilized them and removed them from power; now they reap the rewards of their hard work, the rise of Hamas and Hezbollah.
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Message 2127387 - Posted: 23 Oct 2023, 0:04:11 UTC - in response to Message 2127367.  

How can a few million weary and traumatized and fearful Israelis be allowed to feel secure and at peace with their genocidal neighbours?

A requirement that they can only marry each other and not among themselves.
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Message 2127393 - Posted: 23 Oct 2023, 3:37:30 UTC - in response to Message 2127386.  

How is it that the PLO are so silent??
The Zionists destabilized them and removed them from power; now they reap the rewards of their hard work, the rise of Hamas and Hezbollah.
Exactly. The Israeli government headed by wannabe dictator Benji and his far right Zionists has made their bed and now they must be made to sleep in it or forced to unmake it.

The west must stop pandering to this equally corrupt and terrorist government. Murder and land stealing is all they know just as well.
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Message 2127400 - Posted: 23 Oct 2023, 12:01:32 UTC

I had no intention of starting a discussion about religion. Where I grew up, religion no longer existed in the society. Later, as an adult, I discovered that religions exist and tried to understand them, to fathom their history, or at least understand their principles; in the sense of enlightenment, wanting to understand the here and now. That's all.

I can follow Mr. Kevvy's thoughts that in many autocracies today substitute religions are used for brainwashing. In any case, it's not religion that drives Russia's soldiers to their doom, but pure violence and centuries of servitude. ...off topic.
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Message boards : Politics : When will the West stop pandering the Israeli government?


 
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