Message boards :
Politics :
Boeing: Profits 1st, Safety 2nd? (Part 3)
Message board moderation
Previous · 1 . . . 35 · 36 · 37 · 38 · 39 · 40 · 41 . . . 43 · Next
Author | Message |
---|---|
Wiggo Send message Joined: 24 Jan 00 Posts: 36584 Credit: 261,360,520 RAC: 489 |
More on that ripple effect. Commercial jet maker Airbus is staying humble even as Boeing flounders. There's a reason for that. In the latest round of their decades-long battle for dominance in commercial aircraft, Europe’s Airbus established a clear sales lead over Boeing even before the American company encountered more fallout from manufacturing problems and ongoing safety concerns. |
Dr Who Fan Send message Joined: 8 Jan 01 Posts: 3331 Credit: 715,342 RAC: 4 |
Who's next to mysteriously fall severely ill and/or die? Thing are not going to get better for Boeing as the various US Federal agencies keep digging and finding things like this: US FAA opens probe into Boeing 787 inspections WASHINGTON (Reuters) -The Federal Aviation Administration said on Monday it has opened an investigation into the Boeing 787 Dreamliner after the planemaker said some employees had committed "misconduct" by claiming some tests had been completed. |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21099 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
Boeing is still very much in the wrong and unhealthy type of news: Boeing's Rough Landing... Fly safe?... Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Dr Who Fan Send message Joined: 8 Jan 01 Posts: 3331 Credit: 715,342 RAC: 4 |
Has luck run out for Boeing? Hmmm... Boeing Troubles Just Got Worse The Securities and Exchange Commission has opened an investigation into Boeing over concerns it may have misled investors, reported Bloomberg. |
W-K 666 Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19359 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67 |
Justice Department says Boeing violated deal that avoided prosecution after 737 Max crashes WASHINGTON (AP) — Boeing has violated a settlement that allowed the company to avoid criminal prosecution after two deadly crashes involving its 737 Max aircraft more than five years ago, the Justice Department told a federal judge on Tuesday. |
Wiggo Send message Joined: 24 Jan 00 Posts: 36584 Credit: 261,360,520 RAC: 489 |
More come forward with bad news. Two more Boeing whistleblowers have gone public over what they allege are dangerous practices at the once-great but now-scandal-scarred manufacturer. They say they just want to make sure the planes don’t crash. |
W-K 666 Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19359 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67 |
Boeing 737 took off from Bristol ‘with just three seconds of runway left’ The Tui jet carrying 163 passengers passed over a nearby main road with only 100ft to spare, investigators say A Boeing 737 took off from Bristol Airport with just three seconds of runway remaining after a technical glitch, a report has revealed. The AAIB later publishing a special warning to airlines about using the Boeing 737-800’s autothrottle. |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30974 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
https://simpleflying.com/aaib-report-boeing-737-800-autothrottle-failure-bristol-flight-overflight-end-of-runway-10ft/ The aircraft's autothrottle system failed, with the pilots also entering the incorrect thrust setting, which resulted in the aircraft taking off from the runway at a height of around 10 feet (3 meters). Quite a different narrative than the click bait press report. |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21099 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
Thanks for that article. Reading the full article makes for very disappointing reading... My personal reading suggests that this is a long known series of recurring faults for which Boeing offers no reliable fix. That then adds to a lot of distraction and extra workload for the pilots rather than them being able to remain concentrating on safely flying. To me, this suggests this is another "Boeing feature" that is going to cause another unnecessary crash and loss of life... Fly safe?? Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30974 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
My personal reading suggests that this is a long known series of recurring faults for which Boeing offers no reliable fix.The fix is reject the takeoff. Or do you think that sane well trained pilots should take off with known faulty equipment? [or has this become normalized deviance from SOP?} Until the part fails on a test bench, you can't have a fix. As it does not fail when tested after the fact, the KISS answer is operator error*. So many possibilities. Fix thing that aren't broken? How does that usually go. Break lots more things. *One thing may be actual OE. The pilot after hitting the TOGA switch might not relax his grip enough and a sensor picks this up and correctly disengages the system assuming he is putting in manual input. This would also explain why it tests good after a reported fail. **Additional note Airbus throttle levers do not move when the when the autothrottle is active. Boeing's do so the pilot has a visual reference for the called for amount of thrust. |
rob smith Send message Joined: 7 Mar 03 Posts: 22493 Credit: 416,307,556 RAC: 380 |
The fix is reject the takeoff. Or do you think that sane well trained pilots should take off with known faulty equipment? [or has this become normalized deviance from SOP?} Yes and no - every aircraft type has a list of equipment that are essential for flight, and a list a of equipment that is not essential; additionally each operator may add equipment to the essential list. Before each flight (or each change of crew, or day's operation) these lists are compared with the operational equipment list (this has various names) for the aircraft convened. Obviously if there is an item on the essential list that is shown as "not operational" then that aircraft needs to be repaired before flight, while items on the "non-essential" list do not affect the flight (this ignores the fact that sometimes there are limits on the number of non-essential items not working, and that there may be time limits on items that can be non-operational before they are promoted to the "essential" list). Bob Smith Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society) Somewhere in the (un)known Universe? |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21099 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
My personal reading suggests that this is a long known series of recurring faults for which Boeing offers no reliable fix.The fix is reject the takeoff. Or do you think that sane well trained pilots should take off with known faulty equipment? [or has this become normalized deviance from SOP?} ... ... Far worse than that... How is it that well trained well experienced pilots make a take off with deadly dangerously wrong settings, and were unable to make corrective actions until far far late past a very lucky escape? ... How can that be?... My personal (uneducated, add disclaimers here,) reading of that article highlights:
See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30974 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Yes, but reject is there in the SOP. It isn't rearm and try try again. Vacate the runway, mark inop in the t/log and realize that also changes what approaches are available (no autoland) and perhaps other limits, need another briefing. As I asked, normalization of deviance? Doesn't mean that you can't manually set the thrust for the flight.The fix is reject the takeoff. Or do you think that sane well trained pilots should take off with known faulty equipment? [or has this become normalized deviance from SOP?} |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30974 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
... How can that be?...Normalization of deviance. |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21099 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
... How can that be?...Normalization of deviance. ... And so for this example, why has that so dangerously happened? Fly safe? Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30974 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Safety costs money and greedy airline owners. Or is it governments that penalize flights with delays?... How can that be?...Normalization of deviance. |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21099 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
Safety costs money and greedy airline owners. Or is it governments that penalize flights with delays?... How can that be?...Normalization of deviance. ?... That last comment confirms the thesis of the thread title... Looking more at the mechanism of this particular failure, my own personal thoughts are that of:
See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30974 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Pilots innured to repeated failures and ad-hoc operationtranslation: Normalization of deviance. |
Scrooge McDuck Send message Joined: 26 Nov 99 Posts: 1122 Credit: 1,674,173 RAC: 54 |
Why do they use auto-throttle on takeoff? I thought that pilots usually set takeoff power manually. The second pilot (pilot monitoring) checks and confirms: "takeoff power set". The aircraft takes off and at a certain altitude the pilot engages the autopilot (and auto throttle). Why use auto throttle at takeoff? What is the point? To utilize the maximum length of available runway, go easy on engines and save fuel? A malfunctioning auto throttle at takeoff is clearly dangerous. It is not at a certain flight altitude, because there's time to detect and handle the problem. |
Scrooge McDuck Send message Joined: 26 Nov 99 Posts: 1122 Credit: 1,674,173 RAC: 54 |
As of July 2018, 6,343 Boeing 737 Next Generation aircraft were in commercial service... further hundreds military and business variants.... The 737 NG is a work horse for most major airlines around the globe for more than 25 years now. Why are serious problems with the auto-throttle occurring now? Have the deficits always been there, only pilots were more experienced in the past, bypassing faulty automatic systems manually and safely (off the records)? |
©2024 University of California
SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST-0307956.