Boeing: Profits 1st, Safety 2nd? (Part 3)
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Boeing: Profits 1st, Safety 2nd? (Part 3)
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 Wiggo  Send message Joined: 24 Jan 00 Posts: 34983 Credit: 261,360,520 RAC: 489 
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What happened to testing during the original design?...They followed the FAA mandated testing perfectly. We all know how well government works when put in charge. And when Donny got in he cut a lot of "red tape" procedures further. |
Scrooge McDuck  Send message Joined: 26 Nov 99 Posts: 722 Credit: 1,674,173 RAC: 54 
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Boeing should have learned by now that one (or two) fatal crash(es) is enough to ground a model series and halt production for years. This is the most expensive. |
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ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20395 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 
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... Boeing too often allows its planes to continue flying indefinitely without such fixes ... “There is continuing noncompliance in many areas as Boeing slow-walks getting to full compliance for years..." Including "slow walking" fixes to avert catastrophic failure for the Boeing 747 for ... wait for it ... 13 years?!... See: Maximus Aviation - FAA WARNS Of Catastrophic 747 - 8 Cracks At Aft Bulkhead! BUT Boeing And The FAA KNEW for 13 YEARS! ... All hidden behind passenger reassuring obfuscated abstract-speak... Have we been extremely fortunately "lucky" for that one? So far...? Fly safe?? Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Gary Charpentier     Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30700 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 
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Must be Boeing's fault https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPtCpqEozJ8 The didn't install Tesla automation to prevent taxi accidents. |
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ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20395 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20
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Nope. I don't follow click-bait or teasers. Your comment is? Fly safe folks! Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
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ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20395 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20
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So... How does this balance out?... Alaska 737 Hard Landing KSNA 20 Aug 2023 So... There is a concession to Boeing that allows them to land their 'stretched' 737 versions at (dangerously?) higher landing speeds for the sake of having stretched the aircraft limits/design/profits?... Note this aircrew comment: i am a retired flight attendant. i worked the 737 800, the A321, the A 319, 757, 767etc. Whenever we were about to touch down, the 737 800 was one we consciously held on to something to assist us when it hit. And it did indeed HIT. SLAM! All other aircraft listed above usually had an enormously smooth landing. All Airbus aircraft landed like it was on glass Another Boeing stretch too far?... Fly safe?? Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
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Scrooge McDuck Send message Joined: 26 Nov 99 Posts: 722 Credit: 1,674,173 RAC: 54
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Another Boeing stretch too far?...And there's even the 737-900, not to mention the upcoming Max 10. Hmmm, I've landed dozens of times with all sorts of A319/320/321s, as well as 737-600/700/800s. I don't remember such differences between Boeing and Airbus. The hardness of the landing probably also depends a lot on the experience of the pilots and of course the weather. In Scandinavia, UK, Canada... you will probably have bad weather landings more often. |
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rob smith Send message Joined: 7 Mar 03 Posts: 22236 Credit: 416,307,556 RAC: 380
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There are a lot of reasons for the B737-800 (and later) requiring higher approach and landing speeds. These include the low speed performance of the wings, the need to have a lower angle of attack during the final flare (to avoid tail strikes). Neither of these increases the probability of having a hard landing, indeed may actually reduce it under "normal" weather conditions. Hard landings are the norm at certain airports which are known for their short runways, or the prevalence of cross-winds (BHX & EDI come to mind here). The hardest landing in B737 I've "enjoyed" was a few years ago in a B737-300 at BHX when the conditions were most definitely marginal with heavy rain, fog ($%^&* low cloud?) and a decent cross wind. Certainly the braking once down for a B737-800 and B737-8 are more fierce than almost any A-3xx or "lesser" B-737-xxx. (Aside - Part of the harshness of all the B737 comes from them having short stroke landing gear due to the airlines' desire to have a very low load & maintenance height.) Bob Smith Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society) Somewhere in the (un)known Universe? |
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Scrooge McDuck Send message Joined: 26 Nov 99 Posts: 722 Credit: 1,674,173 RAC: 54
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[...] the aircraft did not suffer a hard landing. The aft trunnion shear pin failed causing the damage to the upper wing panels.https://avherald.com/h?article=50d52882&opt=0 |
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rob smith Send message Joined: 7 Mar 03 Posts: 22236 Credit: 416,307,556 RAC: 380
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Well, how actually makes the B737 MAX??? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmJgweFmoxs That all depends on what you define as an aircraft - by some definitions it is "Spirit" not Boeing, and it would appear Spirit are the core of these two problems, and Spirit isn't in the best of financial health.... Bob Smith Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society) Somewhere in the (un)known Universe? |
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Scrooge McDuck Send message Joined: 26 Nov 99 Posts: 722 Credit: 1,674,173 RAC: 54
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Well, the first prototype of the 737 Max was christened the “Spirit of Renton”. |
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ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20395 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20
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How can this be?... Boeing Urges Airlines To Inspect 787 Max Planes For Possible Loose Bolts wrote: ... discovered two aircraft with missing bolts in the rudder control system, raising concerns about faults across all aircraft... Fly safe folks? Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Sirius B   Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24881 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 
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Too hot for the Transportation thread. 1st off though... Air crew astounds the world of aviation Japan Airlines experienced its own catastrophe in August 1985, when Osaka-bound Flight 123 crashed into a mountain shortly after take-off from Tokyo Haneda. It was later attributed to faulty repair work by Boeing, the aircraft manufacturer.Only four out of 524 people on board survived the crash. Boeing can learn a thing or two from Airbus. But there were also signs the aircraft's design was working to give those on board the best chance of escape. Prof Graham Braithwaite, director of transport systems at Cranfield University in the UK, told the BBC it looked like it "has done what it is designed to do, which is protect the occupants and allow a fast evacuation". |
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W-K 666 Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19112 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67
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Just got up and received this in my news update. U.S. safety board investigating Alaska Airlines Boeing 737 MAX 9 emergency landing Jan 5 (Reuters) - The National Transportation Safety Board said late Friday it was investigating a depressurization incident that forced an Alaska Airlines (ALK.N) Boeing 737 MAX 9 (BA.N) to make an emergency landing shortly after taking off from Portland, Oregon. Have since found this, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-llaZBNC2H4 Start at 10 mins for view of missing panel/door. The plane is only 10 weeks old. edit] Fm Flightradar24 737-9 MAX N704AL Aircraft informationN704AL (MSN 67501) was delivered to Alaska new from Boeing on 31 October 2023. It entered commercial service on 11 November 2023 and has accumulated 145 flights since then (including the incident flight). |
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Grant (SSSF) Send message Joined: 19 Aug 99 Posts: 13755 Credit: 208,696,464 RAC: 304
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Have since found this, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-llaZBNC2H4 Just saw a news article on it. In the video they say it wasn't an emergency exit, however looking at images of the outside of the aircraft it was a door of some type. Passenger screwing around again (eg Asiana Airlines flight OZ8124), or an actual failure? Wondering just how high was the aircraft when it occurred? Grant Darwin NT |
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Richard Haselgrove Send message Joined: 4 Jul 99 Posts: 14654 Credit: 200,643,578 RAC: 874
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Wondering just how high was the aircraft when it occurred?BBC is saying around 16,000 feet - so well below mid-flight cruising level, but high enough to be an immediate problem. More interior photos in https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-67899564 |
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W-K 666 Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19112 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67
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however looking at images of the outside of the aircraft it was a door of some type. That part of the plane, can be a door on some models, those that are fitted to seat higher numbers than the Alaska Airways plane. On this model it is factory sealed and trimmed on the interior to look like the rest of the plane with a window. |
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W-K 666 Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19112 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67
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Explanation of that door plug and its fitting explained https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/spirit-aero-made-blowout-part-boeing-has-key-role-sources-2024-01-07/ |
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ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20395 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20
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And yet we have: Boeing's 737 Max has been described as "the most scrutinised transport aircraft in history" after a series of safety issues. ... And still Boeing remains in the news for all the wrong reasons... How is it that Boeing is allowed to be so casual about safety and their threat/gamble of killing people ? What gamble do you suffer for the sake of extra profits? Fly safe?? Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
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rob smith Send message Joined: 7 Mar 03 Posts: 22236 Credit: 416,307,556 RAC: 380
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"Scrutiny" does not mean "safest" or "best" - it just means that something has been checked, but that something may be good, bad or indifferent; and if found wanting it may not have been fixed. In other words, just a load of hot air has been expelled. Bob Smith Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society) Somewhere in the (un)known Universe? |
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