Boeing: Profits 1st, Safety 2nd? (Part 3)

Message boards : Politics : Boeing: Profits 1st, Safety 2nd? (Part 3)
Message board moderation

To post messages, you must log in.

Previous · 1 . . . 24 · 25 · 26 · 27 · 28 · 29 · 30 . . . 37 · Next

AuthorMessage
Profile ML1
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 25 Nov 01
Posts: 20311
Credit: 7,508,002
RAC: 20
United Kingdom
Message 2131589 - Posted: 22 Jan 2024, 1:43:30 UTC

Oooer... This is quite a "hum-dinger" from Maximus Aviation:

Why Airbus NEEDS To Worry About Boeing's MAX And Dreamliner Fuselage Problems And A New Lawsuit...


Is there more than Boeing at risk of being tarred and feathered over Boeing's latest 'incidents'?


Fly safe folks?
Martin
See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)
ID: 2131589 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile ML1
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 25 Nov 01
Posts: 20311
Credit: 7,508,002
RAC: 20
United Kingdom
Message 2131592 - Posted: 22 Jan 2024, 2:08:20 UTC

And yet another 'loose screw':

Unbelievable: Data From Alaska Airlines Boeing 737 MAX 9 Voice Recorder Was Wiped


... At what price are the lives of people?

... How far behind in safety can Boeing go??


Fly safe folks?
Martin
See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)
ID: 2131592 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
W-K 666 Project Donor
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 18 May 99
Posts: 19072
Credit: 40,757,560
RAC: 67
United Kingdom
Message 2131597 - Posted: 22 Jan 2024, 5:04:21 UTC - in response to Message 2131592.  

And yet another 'loose screw':

Unbelievable: Data From Alaska Airlines Boeing 737 MAX 9 Voice Recorder Was Wiped


... At what price are the lives of people?

... How far behind in safety can Boeing go??


Fly safe folks?
Martin

I've already reported that. https://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=85359&postid=2130958#2130958
ID: 2131597 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile Wiggo
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 24 Jan 00
Posts: 34831
Credit: 261,360,520
RAC: 489
Australia
Message 2131601 - Posted: 22 Jan 2024, 6:10:01 UTC

Door plug inspections widen to include 737-900ER's.

FAA recommends door plug inspections on other Boeing model after midair Alaska blowout.

The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration on Sunday recommended visual inspections of Boeing 737-900ER planes because the have similarities to the model involved in a Jan. 5 midair emergency on an Alaska Airlines flight.

The inspections should focus on "mid-exit door plugs," the FAA said in a statement, referring to the same type of panel that detached from Alaska Airlines flight 1282.

The Boeing 737-900ER is used by Alaska, Delta and a number of overseas airlines. It is older than the 737 Max 9 involved in the Alaska flight, but it uses the same door plug design, FAA said.

There is no evidence that there are any problems or defects with the 737-900ER's mid-exit door plugs, the agency noted. The model has logged 11 million hours of operation, according to the FAA.

Operators had already conducted additional inspections of the 737-900ER following the Alaska Airlines emergency, the agency said. Sunday's announcement said operators need to ensure the door plugs are properly secured as "an added layer of safety."

Alaska Airlines and United Airlines inspections of 737 Max 9 planes in the wake of the Jan. 5 accident found some aircraft with door plugs that contained bolts that were not tightened to specified torque levels.

National Transportation Safety Board officials said an examination of a panel that blew out of the Alaska Airlines flight showed signs of fractured guides and missing bolts, though cause was still under investigation......
ID: 2131601 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 30664
Credit: 53,134,872
RAC: 32
United States
Message 2131626 - Posted: 22 Jan 2024, 21:47:04 UTC - in response to Message 2131578.  

Congress must force Boeing to be better
It is unlikely yet another change in Boeing leadership could reform practices, rebuild corporate culture and restore confidence. The invisible hand of the free market pushed Boeing to seek ever-greater profit margins, quality be damned. That terrible dynamic won’t change with another C-suite restructuring.
Is this latest Boeing 'incident', the latest of too many 'incidents', now raising a question of the very existence of Boeing and the FAA?
Wait until SCOTUS decides the Chevron case and takes away the ability of the FAA to do any regulation!
ID: 2131626 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile ML1
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 25 Nov 01
Posts: 20311
Credit: 7,508,002
RAC: 20
United Kingdom
Message 2131627 - Posted: 22 Jan 2024, 22:00:14 UTC

From many years ago...

There was an expedient "in flight fix" to avoid the risk of a completely deadly decompression from 'inadvertently' losing the door on the Space Shuttle:

What happens when an astronaut in orbit...

The fix was duct tape and later, a padlock...

Although the main contractor was Boeing, at least on this occasion the main aspect was "Human Factors".

Careful consideration is needed for safety critical aspects...


Fly safe folks?
Martin
See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)
ID: 2131627 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile Wiggo
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 24 Jan 00
Posts: 34831
Credit: 261,360,520
RAC: 489
Australia
Message 2131697 - Posted: 24 Jan 2024, 8:31:16 UTC

Another hint that the greedy little leprechaun isn't planning on coming back to face the music.

Former Qantas boss Alan Joyce resigns as chair of Sydney Theatre Company months after Palestine scarf row.

And I'm pretty sure that the "scarf row" was just a convenient excuse.
ID: 2131697 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
W-K 666 Project Donor
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 18 May 99
Posts: 19072
Credit: 40,757,560
RAC: 67
United Kingdom
Message 2131707 - Posted: 24 Jan 2024, 12:33:41 UTC
Last modified: 24 Jan 2024, 12:34:32 UTC

Lucky this happened before take-off.

Boeing 757 loses nose wheel while preparing for takeoff in Atlanta
Reuters
January 24, 2024 4:31 AM GMTUpdated 8 hours ago
Jan 23 (Reuters) - The nose wheel of a Boeing 757 passenger jet operated by Delta Air Lines popped off and rolled away as the plane was lining up for takeoff over the weekend from Atlanta's international airport, according to the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA).
Boeing was not immediately available to comment outside regular business hours.
The nose gear mishap on Saturday came amid heightened scrutiny of the aircraft manufacturer by federal regulators following the mid-air blowout of a fuselage panel that left a gaping hold in an 8-week-old Boeing 737 MAX 9 jet flown by Alaska Airlines.
ID: 2131707 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 30664
Credit: 53,134,872
RAC: 32
United States
Message 2131715 - Posted: 24 Jan 2024, 16:23:09 UTC - in response to Message 2131707.  

Delta mechanic fails to tighten nut holding tire rim onto axle. But in the press Boeing is responsible.
ID: 2131715 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile ML1
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 25 Nov 01
Posts: 20311
Credit: 7,508,002
RAC: 20
United Kingdom
Message 2131721 - Posted: 24 Jan 2024, 18:12:41 UTC - in response to Message 2131715.  
Last modified: 24 Jan 2024, 18:14:43 UTC

Delta mechanic fails to tighten nut holding tire rim onto axle. But in the press Boeing is responsible.

... Well... It is Boeing that writes the maintenance manuals and describe the checks that are required...

Was that a deficiency in the procedures, or a failure to follow the procedures? And why/how the checks didn't catch the failure?...


Note in this article:

Nose wheel falls off Boeing 757 passenger jet awaiting takeoff
wrote:
... With passenger concerns rising, Kayak, a leading online travel agent, has updated filters to allow customers to exclude flights that use Boeing’s troubled 737 Max planes...



Fly safe folks?
Martin
See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)
ID: 2131721 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile ML1
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 25 Nov 01
Posts: 20311
Credit: 7,508,002
RAC: 20
United Kingdom
Message 2131739 - Posted: 25 Jan 2024, 0:28:27 UTC
Last modified: 25 Jan 2024, 0:29:20 UTC

This is a deadly scary Ouch!:


Boeing's Quality Management Failure Explained 737-Max-9 Door 24 Jan 2024


... And where else are there such deadly disconnects amidst the daily chaos of rush and rework...

Fly safe?
Martin
See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)
ID: 2131739 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile ML1
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 25 Nov 01
Posts: 20311
Credit: 7,508,002
RAC: 20
United Kingdom
Message 2131742 - Posted: 25 Jan 2024, 1:07:12 UTC - in response to Message 2131739.  
Last modified: 25 Jan 2024, 1:12:49 UTC

Further details...

A very deadly slippery slope:

"Yes, We Have No Bolts" 9 Jan 737 Max-9 Update


... And indeed what else?...

Hundreds of people have already needlessly died on this plane...

Fly safe?
Martin
See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)
ID: 2131742 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile Wiggo
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 24 Jan 00
Posts: 34831
Credit: 261,360,520
RAC: 489
Australia
Message 2131745 - Posted: 25 Jan 2024, 2:26:40 UTC

No quality control for certain and likely too many foreman/supervisors suffering from what I use to call the "Missus disease" or "Idiot disease", they'd want you to drop tools on 1 job to do something else.
ID: 2131745 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 30664
Credit: 53,134,872
RAC: 32
United States
Message 2131752 - Posted: 25 Jan 2024, 6:24:15 UTC - in response to Message 2131721.  

Delta mechanic fails to tighten nut holding tire rim onto axle. But in the press Boeing is responsible.

... Well... It is Boeing that writes the maintenance manuals and describe the checks that are required...

Last 757 came off the production line in 2004. Are you trying to tell me that no tires have been replaced on any 757 since 1982 when it first entered service, when that service manual was written? Or could it be every other person was proficient in English, but his guy it wasn't his first language?

Perhaps someone needs to tell you that A&P mechanics both do the work and sign the logbook that the work was done. Same person. No double check. But that is only after the plane leaves the factory.
Now some things do require an IA, but if the A&P also holds an IA, again single person signs off the work.

Perhaps you should rail against the FAA. But don't worry the Chevron cases in front of SCOTUS will dissolve the FAA and there will be no regulation of airlines or airplanes.
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/467/837/
https://www.scotusblog.com/2023/10/justices-grant-four-new-cases-including-chevron-companion-case/
ID: 2131752 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile ML1
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 25 Nov 01
Posts: 20311
Credit: 7,508,002
RAC: 20
United Kingdom
Message 2131758 - Posted: 25 Jan 2024, 9:42:44 UTC - in response to Message 2131752.  
Last modified: 25 Jan 2024, 10:05:56 UTC

Boeing write the procedures to be followed:

  • Are those procedures clear, thorough, and safe?
  • Are there catch-all safety checks in those procedures?
  • Or how/why were those procedures not followed?
  • How did the final walk-round check by the pilot not uncover the problem?
  • ... New procedures required?
  • ... New procedures required to be imposed?




This is no small thing...

... And very much no laughing matter.


Fly safe folks?
Martin


See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)
ID: 2131758 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Scrooge McDuck
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 26 Nov 99
Posts: 694
Credit: 1,674,173
RAC: 54
Germany
Message 2131761 - Posted: 25 Jan 2024, 10:38:55 UTC
Last modified: 25 Jan 2024, 11:18:30 UTC

I searched briefly:

Incident: Mesa CRJ9 at Denver on Nov 20th 2023, arrived without nose tyre
Incident: Swift B733 at Dayton on Mar 17th 2022, dropped tyre on departure

I think there's nothing special to landing gears and tyres of Boeing aircraft compared to any other commercial aircraft. Such events are caused by negligent maintenance or maybe bad luck. Gary already said it: Boeing deserves criticism for what goes wrong in the design and manufacturing of their aircraft. But airlines (and negligent authorities) are often responsible for operational problems.
ID: 2131761 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Scrooge McDuck
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 26 Nov 99
Posts: 694
Credit: 1,674,173
RAC: 54
Germany
Message 2131766 - Posted: 25 Jan 2024, 11:48:38 UTC

Can anyone explain in a sentence or two what the significance of the "Chevron cases" before the SCOTUS is in relation to FAA's authority to regulate aviation? Or a helpful URL? For continental Europeans the American/British legal system (case law) is an inscrutable tangle of old judgments which are endlessly linked, intertwined, scrambled..., compared to our (in theory) "crystal-clear" legal texts based on Roman or French traditions.
ID: 2131766 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Scrooge McDuck
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 26 Nov 99
Posts: 694
Credit: 1,674,173
RAC: 54
Germany
Message 2131767 - Posted: 25 Jan 2024, 12:34:47 UTC - in response to Message 2131721.  

... With passenger concerns rising, Kayak, a leading online travel agent, has updated filters to allow customers to exclude flights that use Boeing’s troubled 737 Max planes...
Uuuhh... I think this won't work for the major airlines with large 737 fleets like e.g. United Airlines. If you have a domestic or continental flight with e.g. Lufthansa the ticket always states: "A320series". Depending on the booked passengers and the current check-in status, the airline decides at short notice to take a larger A321, a newer A320neo or a smaller A319 departing at their main hubs. Often I got a notice only two or three hours before departure on changed gate and aircraft type for domestic connections in Germany. I also had it with British Airways in Heathrow...

Why else would airlines force Boeing to maintain the previous 737 generation's type rating for the Max? You only need that for the flexible mixed operation of the 737 NG and Max with the same pool of pilots.
ID: 2131767 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 30664
Credit: 53,134,872
RAC: 32
United States
Message 2131771 - Posted: 25 Jan 2024, 15:11:33 UTC - in response to Message 2131766.  

Can anyone explain in a sentence or two what the significance of the "Chevron cases" before the SCOTUS is in relation to FAA's authority to regulate aviation? Or a helpful URL? For continental Europeans the American/British legal system (case law) is an inscrutable tangle of old judgments which are endlessly linked, intertwined, scrambled..., compared to our (in theory) "crystal-clear" legal texts based on Roman or French traditions.

The cases that SCOTUS took seek to overturn the ability of federal agencies, experts, to write regulation and seek to force congress, buffoons, to write the regulations. Essentially they seek to remove the Code of Federal Regulations.
All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.

The Chevron case says courts shall defer to the judgement of the experts in the federal agency where there is ambiguity in something congress wrote.
ID: 2131771 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
W-K 666 Project Donor
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 18 May 99
Posts: 19072
Credit: 40,757,560
RAC: 67
United Kingdom
Message 2131773 - Posted: 25 Jan 2024, 15:22:31 UTC - in response to Message 2131752.  

Or could it be every other person was proficient in English, but his guy it wasn't his first language?

Aircraft documentation is always written to the standards to remove ambiguities that may occur when used by people who's first language is not English.
ATA 100 is a good starting point, although this has been superseded since 2015,
ID: 2131773 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Previous · 1 . . . 24 · 25 · 26 · 27 · 28 · 29 · 30 . . . 37 · Next

Message boards : Politics : Boeing: Profits 1st, Safety 2nd? (Part 3)


 
©2024 University of California
 
SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST-0307956.