CPU crunching VS. Intel GPU. Is it worth it?

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wolfman1360

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Message 2011045 - Posted: 7 Sep 2019, 3:53:29 UTC

Hello.
I'm in a bit of a quandary over here.
I decided to get back into different projects.
I've got a few Intel processors with HD graphics.
Since I've decided to get back into the SETI of things (horrible pun), should I use the Intel HD graphics to crunch (i5-3570s, i7-3610qm, i7-7700), or just stick to the CPU part of things, or not even that and reserve the CPU for CPU-only projects?
I've also got an rx570 and gtx 1080 to throw into the mix, with 2 Ryzen's on the AMD side of things with a side of fx8350, which might get an rx or gtx 10xx of its own down the line. Right now it's struggling along with a basic 6450.

Curious on opinions. For the machines with Intel GPUs the 7700 is running DDR4-2400 and the rest DDR3-1333, all dual-channel.

I think there was also software released to make performance on this project even quicker, but I'll be darned if I can find it.

Thanks.
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Grant (SSSF)
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Message 2011047 - Posted: 7 Sep 2019, 4:26:17 UTC - in response to Message 2011045.  
Last modified: 7 Sep 2019, 4:27:17 UTC

should I use the Intel HD graphics to crunch (i5-3570s, i7-3610qm, i7-7700), or just stick to the CPU part of things,
There is no advantage in using the Intel iGPU on any recent multicore CPU with a reasonable clock speed as the performance of the iGPU doesn't even come close to offsetting the loss in CPU output from having it processing work. Even with older 2 core/thread low clock speed CPUs, the increased output from using the iGPU is minimal. The iGPU is good for driving the monitor, allowing even lower end GPU hardware to make use of aggressive command line values to improve their performance even further.
If you run a recent Nvidia GPU with appropriate command lines, and give it 1 CPU core to support each GPU WU being processed, the loss in CPU output is more than offset- by a huge amount.

I think there was also software released to make performance on this project even quicker, but I'll be darned if I can find it.
If you run a LINUX system with a reasonably recent NVidia card (generally around the GTX 750Ti or better) there is an application that gives significantly greater output then the stock application even with aggressive command line settings.
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wolfman1360

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Message 2011048 - Posted: 7 Sep 2019, 4:58:48 UTC - in response to Message 2011047.  

If you run a LINUX system with a reasonably recent NVidia card (generally around the GTX 750Ti or better) there is an application that gives significantly greater output then the stock application even with aggressive command line settings.
Sorry, are you talking about, on the non-linux side at least, Lunatics? I think I found the latest version of that.

I do not have any Linux specific crunchers, at least right now, though that being said would there be any advantage at all in running a Linux subsystem in Windows 10? Or would that not take advantage of the specifics the Linux application has to offer?

The only decent Nvidia GPU I have is the 1080 along with the rx570 from AMD.
I went ahead and looked at the top hosts. Incredible amounts of power there. Also surely an incredible electric bill :).
thanks
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Message 2011050 - Posted: 7 Sep 2019, 6:16:03 UTC - in response to Message 2011048.  

Sorry, are you talking about, on the non-linux side at least, Lunatics? I think I found the latest version of that.
Lunatics allows you to select & install the best application for your system- otherwise it's a case of the BOINC Manager trying all of the different applications available till it decides which one performs best, and even then it doesn't always get it right due to the mix of different WUs that are available.


I do not have any Linux specific crunchers, at least right now, though that being said would there be any advantage at all in running a Linux subsystem in Windows 10?
You'd be better off just installing a second HDD (or better yet a SSD) and use the BIOS boot options to select which one to use if you want to have both Windows & LINUX on the one system.
As to how well LINUX under Windows would work, I've no idea.


The only decent Nvidia GPU I have is the 1080 along with the rx570 from AMD.
Not familiar with AMD these days, but the GTX 1080 with some command line values is a very capable performer.
Shaggie's graphs give a good indication of what hardware can do what.
GPU Seti performance.
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Message 2011057 - Posted: 7 Sep 2019, 7:18:30 UTC

Mixing AMD/ATI with nVidia GPUs does present problems in configuring both to do their best, also there is a major issue with the accuracy of the current AMD/ATI offerings (but I don't think that really affects you with your older RX570).
The AMD RX570 falls a fair way behind the nVidia GTX1080 both in absolute terms of tasks per hour and tasks per kWatt , and the settings required to get the bets out of one of them will hit the other badly, possibly to the extent that you would be better just running the nVida GTX1080 (I'm not certain - others might know better).
I don't think anyone has enough experience of running the MS Linux subsystem to be able to compare it's performance and interface with other "mainstream" Linux offerings (Ubuntu and Mint appear to have the largest number of users here), so you might find yourself on your own when it comes to support. My guess is it would rather like WINE to run Windows programs under Linux which runs OK, but is not as good as the real thing, and not everything works as it should. (including Autocad which just simply doesn't run -ggrrrr). So I would consider Grant's solution of having two hard disks, one with Windows and the other for a popular version of Linux and flip-boot in the BIOS.
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Message 2011134 - Posted: 7 Sep 2019, 20:32:23 UTC - in response to Message 2011057.  

Mixing AMD/ATI with nVidia GPUs does present problems in configuring both to do their best, also there is a major issue with the accuracy of the current AMD/ATI offerings (but I don't think that really affects you with your older RX570).
The AMD RX570 falls a fair way behind the nVidia GTX1080 both in absolute terms of tasks per hour and tasks per kWatt , and the settings required to get the bets out of one of them will hit the other badly, possibly to the extent that you would be better just running the nVida GTX1080 (I'm not certain - others might know better).
I don't think anyone has enough experience of running the MS Linux subsystem to be able to compare it's performance and interface with other "mainstream" Linux offerings (Ubuntu and Mint appear to have the largest number of users here), so you might find yourself on your own when it comes to support. My guess is it would rather like WINE to run Windows programs under Linux which runs OK, but is not as good as the real thing, and not everything works as it should. (including Autocad which just simply doesn't run -ggrrrr). So I would consider Grant's solution of having two hard disks, one with Windows and the other for a popular version of Linux and flip-boot in the BIOS.

Hello.
Sorry, clarifications. These are two different machines - the rx570 is in a Ryzen 1800x that a coworker, for whatever reason, no longer wanted.
The machine with the 1080 is, of course, my daily driver. I don't mind having it boot into either but I feel that by the time I booted into Linux, my ultimate runtimes for tasks would be better off in Windows. How much performance is to be gained from this if Linux was only booted from say Midnight to 7 or 8 AM, and the rest of the time, either due to work or games, windows was having a go at things? This is of course worst case and Linux would likely be running whenever I could get a spare few tasks in.
I could always throw the 1080 into a dedicated Linux machine, but I don't have that kind of money to spend on a GPU just for crunching, as it were, unless I found an absolutely fantastic deal.

Even though one or both of these methods will likely either not show any sort of improvements, I do plan on at the very least trying a Linux VM / Linux subsystem. I'm sure Windows is going to ultimately get in the way, though.

It's really unfortunate this can't be ported into Windows. Meanwhile at einstein, my AMD seems to keep right up with the big boys at Nvidia - is this because of specific code optimizations, or it's using a different computing portion of the AMD card? The capability is there, it seems, but it just doesn't fall under what a specific project is aiming for?
It has always been a curiosity of mine why some projects favor Nvidia and some projects favor AMD. Unfortunately in Canada price vs. performance AMD is king even more , unless you have a big wallet. Even a 1070 is still going for upwards of $600.
The 1660 TI seems to be the sweet spot right now, having most of the performance of the 1070 at half the price over here, so maybe I'll throw that into something and dedicated it to Linux.

Maybe I'll get lucky in a few years and that same coworker will have a hardly used 2080 TI. I can dream.
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Grant (SSSF)
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Message 2011145 - Posted: 7 Sep 2019, 21:42:46 UTC - in response to Message 2011134.  
Last modified: 7 Sep 2019, 21:43:42 UTC

How much performance is to be gained from this if Linux was only booted from say Midnight to 7 or 8 AM, and the rest of the time, either due to work or games, windows was having a go at things?
The Linux special application provides roughly 3-4 times the output of the SoG application.


It's really unfortunate this can't be ported into Windows.
It can be, it just requires someone to do the work.


Meanwhile at einstein, my AMD seems to keep right up with the big boys at Nvidia - is this because of specific code optimizations, or it's using a different computing portion of the AMD card? The capability is there, it seems, but it just doesn't fall under what a specific project is aiming for?
It's all about money, or volunteers- someone has to do the work. If they've got the people, the work gets done, if they don't (such as here at Seti), it doesn't.


Unfortunately in Canada price vs. performance AMD is king even more , unless you have a big wallet. Even a 1070 is still going for upwards of $600.
A quick look at Newegg Canada shows a CA $440 for a GTX 166Ti, an RTX2060 going for CA $490. For an extra $50 you get a big boost in performance (Ref the GPU Seti performance link in my previous post).
Grant
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Message boards : Number crunching : CPU crunching VS. Intel GPU. Is it worth it?


 
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