Climate Change, 'Greenhouse' effects: Solutions #3

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Ian&Steve C.
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Message 2073521 - Posted: 16 Apr 2021, 16:56:28 UTC - in response to Message 2073518.  
Last modified: 16 Apr 2021, 17:00:17 UTC

and yet several existing and new missions were funded during the Bush administration. the claim doesn't hold water.

scientists are human, and they get upset and lash out when their research doesn't get funded, which is largely based on the quality of their own proposals.
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Message 2073525 - Posted: 16 Apr 2021, 18:07:29 UTC - in response to Message 2073521.  
Last modified: 17 Apr 2021, 4:59:59 UTC

and yet several existing and new missions were funded during the Bush administration. the claim doesn't hold water.

scientists are human, and they get upset and lash out when their research doesn't get funded, which is largely based on the quality of their own proposals.

I've been in the research game. Regardless of what the research might be, there is a lot of very badly time wasting administrative politics chasing very scarce resources... Scientists cannot live on those wasteful games.

Which is badly silly really when considering the very high return on investing in science.

Just for our present example, we have multiple vaccines safely available in a matter of months due to the scientific infrastructure that happened to be already in place. We should clear the pandemic in months rather than the decades that such as various plagues previously have lingered.

And yet...

A world leading Australian research group that were a very important part of the spearhead towards developing vaccines had been disbanded! The group were awarded funds AFTER they publicized their results from their own unfunded 'initiative' and unfunded dedication.

There is a similar story for one of the vaccine technologies newly being used where the researcher for that had no funding. Yet that selfless dedication, unfunded, is saving millions of lives.

We have the recent example of the demise of the Arecibo Observatory, and that is despite that had been our only interplanetary radar! Now gone. Collapsed, destroyed.

Scientists are very dedicated, you have to be to do such work. However, science also seems to be very badly short changed and abused.


Climate and environmental research in the USA was gutted of funding for a decade or more, with the added insult of deliberate misinformation and discredit and scorn thrown in from a number of oil (money) loving USA presidents.


The rest is history as is said after the event...

As always in politics, the solution is wherever the funding goes...


All on our only one planet,
Martin


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Message 2073531 - Posted: 16 Apr 2021, 18:18:47 UTC - in response to Message 2073525.  

and yet several existing and new missions were funded during the Bush administration. the claim doesn't hold water.

scientists are human, and they get upset and lash out when their research doesn't get funded, which is largely based on the quality of their own proposals.

I've been in the research game. Regardless of what the research might be, there is a lot of very badly time wasting administrative politics chasing very scarce resources... Scientists cannot live on those wasteful games.

Which is badly silly really when considering the very high return on investing in science.


there are only finite funds. because of this, there needs to be review processes to gauge which research endeavors are worthy of these finite funds. they can't just give out money to whomever wants it. all research is NOT created equal. good research proposals rightfully deserve to be funded over bad proposals (poor planning, lack of expected results, financially wasteful plans, etc).

these "games" are necessary.
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Message 2073532 - Posted: 16 Apr 2021, 18:30:09 UTC - in response to Message 2073531.  
Last modified: 16 Apr 2021, 19:07:59 UTC

... Which is badly silly really when considering the very high return on investing in science.


there are only finite funds. because of this, there needs to be review processes to gauge which research endeavors are worthy of these finite funds. they can't just give out money to whomever wants it. all research is NOT created equal. good research proposals rightfully deserve to be funded over bad proposals (poor planning, lack of expected results, financially wasteful plans, etc).

these "games" are necessary.

All a game of how the games are done... And with what proportions...

Look up the cost of the Deep Water Horizon (attempted) cleanup, or the expenditure used trying to reshape Afghanistan, or even just the political lobbying/party budgets, and then compare to the USA NSF budget...


What games do politicians play?

And Arecibo fell into disrepair and fell down.


All on our only one planet,
Martin


Edit:

Just one example to compare against Arecibo:

Trump’s False Election Claims Cost Taxpayers Over $500m...

Meanwhile, Arecibo's yearly budget had been slashed to the total insulting joke of less than just 1% of just that one 'policy' item on the past presidential ticket list...

Edit #2: Which would you choose? One year of funding for Arecibo, or the cost of Donald Trump playing five or so rounds of golf? See: Trump Golf Count. All a question of proportion and balance?
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Message 2073534 - Posted: 16 Apr 2021, 19:09:01 UTC - in response to Message 2073532.  

Meanwhile, Arecibo's yearly budget had been slashed to the total insulting joke of less than just 1% of just that one 'policy' item on the past presidential ticket list...
The defence budget is more important than any NSF funded project.
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Message 2073535 - Posted: 16 Apr 2021, 19:14:38 UTC - in response to Message 2073534.  
Last modified: 16 Apr 2021, 19:15:12 UTC

Meanwhile, Arecibo's yearly budget had been slashed to the total insulting joke of less than just 1% of just that one 'policy' item on the past presidential ticket list...
The defence budget is more important than any NSF funded project.

To what extreme extent?

And for what profits to the main contractor Boeing?

The balance appears to be that Trump playing golf is a hundred times more 'important' for "$" than Arecibo was for science and for protecting our planet from Near Earth Objects... (And Arecibo included some climate science.)


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Message 2073537 - Posted: 16 Apr 2021, 19:32:24 UTC - in response to Message 2073534.  

Meanwhile, Arecibo's yearly budget had been slashed to the total insulting joke of less than just 1% of just that one 'policy' item on the past presidential ticket list...
The defence budget is more important than any NSF funded project.

Only that part of the defence budget that is essential, and when considering the U.S.the non-essential costs in Iraq and Afghanistan were north of $4.4 Trillion.

Plus the Defence Department should also be funding scientific research, which in many cases can also have civilian uses.
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Message 2073545 - Posted: 16 Apr 2021, 20:11:12 UTC - in response to Message 2073532.  

... Which is badly silly really when considering the very high return on investing in science.


there are only finite funds. because of this, there needs to be review processes to gauge which research endeavors are worthy of these finite funds. they can't just give out money to whomever wants it. all research is NOT created equal. good research proposals rightfully deserve to be funded over bad proposals (poor planning, lack of expected results, financially wasteful plans, etc).

these "games" are necessary.

All a game of how the games are done... And with what proportions...

Look up the cost of the Deep Water Horizon (attempted) cleanup, or the expenditure used trying to reshape Afghanistan, or even just the political lobbying/party budgets, and then compare to the USA NSF budget...


What games do politicians play?

And Arecibo fell into disrepair and fell down.


All on our only one planet,
Martin


Edit:

Just one example to compare against Arecibo:

Trump’s False Election Claims Cost Taxpayers Over $500m...

Meanwhile, Arecibo's yearly budget had been slashed to the total insulting joke of less than just 1% of just that one 'policy' item on the past presidential ticket list...

Edit #2: Which would you choose? One year of funding for Arecibo, or the cost of Donald Trump playing five or so rounds of golf? See: Trump Golf Count. All a question of proportion and balance?


this is nothing more than straw man and whataboutism.

thinking that if whatever money wasn't spent on something you don't like necessarily means that it WILL be spent on something you DO like, is a logical fallacy.

stay on topic. this was about your claim that Bush (and to a larger degree, Republicans in general) purposely denied funding to climate research space missions for nefarious reasons. it's an opinion not based in reality as plenty other missions and projects were funded and renewed with government money during Republican eras.
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Message 2073559 - Posted: 16 Apr 2021, 21:07:15 UTC - in response to Message 2073535.  

And for what profits to the main contractor Boeing?

Larger than Boeing: Lockheed Martin Corp., Raytheon Technologies Corp., General Dynamics Corp.
See also: Northrop Grumman Corp., Huntington Ingalls Industries Inc., Humana Inc., BAE Systems plc, L3Harris Technologies Inc., General Electric Company., Health Net Federal Services LLC., Atlantic Diving Supply Inc., Leidos Holdings Inc., McKesson Corp., Oshkosh Corp., Science Applications International Corp., Booz Allen Hamilton Holding Corp., Fisher Sand & Gravel Company, Amerisourcebergen Corp., Bell-Boeing Joint Project Office, Leonardo SpA, Bechtel Group Inc., Textron Inc., AECOM, Fluor Marine Propulsion LLC., General Atomic Technologies Corp., Sierra Nevada Corp., KBR Inc., Federal Resources Supply Company, Vectrus Systems Corp., Perspecta Inc., BFBC LLC, Modernatx Inc., Johns Hopkins University, CACI International Inc., Rolls-Royce Corp., Southwest Valley Constructors Co., Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Environmental Chemical Corp., Jacobs Engineering Group Inc., The Aerospace Corp., United Launch Alliance LLC, The Mitre Corp., Honeywell International Inc., M1 Support Services LP, The Walsh Group Ltd., Marinette Marine Corp, Sullivan Land Services Ltd., Patriot Team, Government of Canada, Hensel Phelps Construction Co., Express Scripts Inc., General Atomics Aeronautical Systems Inc., Denali Holding Inc., FedEx Corp., Georgia Tech Research Corp ., Verizon Communications Inc., W. S. Darley & Co., The Parsons Corp., Carahsoft Technology Corp., Viasat Inc., Cardinal Health Inc., Great Lakes Dredge & Dock Corp., BAH – ICM JV, Torch Technologies Inc., Fluor Corp., APTIM Federal Services LLC, Alion Science and Technology Corp., Dyncorp International LLC, Nova Global Supply and Services LLC, Defense Systems and Solutions, The Whiting-Turner Contracting Company, International Business Machines Corp., BP Products North America Inc., Harris Global Communications Inc., The Charles Stark Draper Laboratory Inc., AT&T Inc., Johns Hopkins Health System Corp., Battelle Memorial Institute., Highmark Inc., Microsoft Corp., Weeks Marine Inc., Airbus Defence and Space SAS, Serco Group plc, Vigor Marine LLC, World Wide Technology Holding Co Inc., Data Link Solutions LLC., DCS Corp., Manson Construction Co., Martin’s Point Health Care Inc., Cisco Systems Inc., ANHAM FZCO, Columbia Helicopters Inc., Gilbane Inc., CDW Corp, MacAndrews & Forbes Holdings Inc., DDB Chicago Inc., Glaxosmithkline plc, Michael Baker International LLC, RQ Construction LLC
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Message 2073583 - Posted: 17 Apr 2021, 0:47:41 UTC - in response to Message 2073545.  
Last modified: 17 Apr 2021, 4:41:42 UTC

thinking that if whatever money wasn't spent on something you don't like necessarily means that it WILL be spent on something you DO like, is a logical fallacy.

OK, lets try another comparison:

US Lawmakers Propose Doubling of NSF Funding
wrote:
... outlines plans to more than double the National Science Foundation’s budget and create a new technology directorate.

“As countries around the world increase investments in research and STEM education, United States global leadership in science and engineering is eroding, posing significant risks to economic competitiveness, national security, and public well-being,”...

... In 2021, the NSF received $8.5 billion to fund its seven directorates. The new legislation proposes to increase the agency’s annual budget up to $18.3 billion by 2026, part of which would go toward a new initiative called Science and Engineering Solutions...

... “To fully realize the potential of science to benefit society, we must fund more research on the questions that matter to the American people,”...

... In some ways, the new bill is similar to the Endless Frontier Act introduced in June last year that sought to quadruple the NSF’s budget...

Phew! Are some people at last slowly awakening to how it is Science that makes things work and saves people from deadly nasties like a pandemic?

However, note the desperate quadrupling and downgrading to just doubling the funding despite the obvious damage already done. Sounds just like a script for Darth Vader and Star Wars...


Note also that the NSF funding is divided across at least seven departments that includes other than 'just' research...

That divided $8.5 Billion gave a fabulous huge return far beyond the daily mundane nuts and bolts of present day old stuff: National Science Foundation 2019 (A better title would be "Turning Science Fiction into Today's Science Fact".)


Now compare with the very mundane air refueling tankers modified from an existing assembly line production airplane:

Air Force Holds Back $336 Million on Flawed Boeing Tanker
wrote:
... $44 billion tanker program that Boeing was awarded in 2011...

... Since 2014 Boeing has amassed $5.1 billion in accounting charges [cost overruns] for the program’s numerous development issues...

... The Air Force continues to work with Chicago-based Boeing to resolve serious “Category 1” deficiencies on the KC-46...

That's over $5 Billion of extras and that doesn't include a working toilet for the crews! (The KC-46 has a messy problem with its palletized toilet)



So, lets see... $8.5 Billion for fantastic new earth changing new Science, or $5 Billion to fix comparatively trivial modifications to air tankers?

I'm sure the air tankers are very much needed. However, the tasks are like comparing rocket science to brick laying (no besmirching the hard work that brick layers do).

All a totally different world with a galactic difference in results...

And Arecibo fell.

And we burn our planet for the sake of some leaking toilets in a 50-year old decrepit aircraft design?


Make your choice?

Follow the oil money?

Hopefully, climate science gets usefully funded now and even further, that the results are acted upon now rather than too late...


All on our only one planet,
Martin


Edit: Link to the collapse and destruction of the Arecibo Radio Telescope
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Message 2073810 - Posted: 19 Apr 2021, 21:24:52 UTC
Last modified: 19 Apr 2021, 21:25:17 UTC

There is positively a lot we can do very quickly:


The best climate solution you've never heard of
wrote:
Around the world, there are teams of people who are working to track down and destroy hidden sources of greenhouse gases - stopping them from harming the planet. Some of the gases, which are used in refrigeration, have many times the global warming potential of carbon dioxide...

... But not everyone is disposing of refrigerant canisters or fridges in the right way...

... These teams are jokingly referred to as "ghostbusters", because of the way their cinematic counterparts gathered up troublesome phantoms and stored them together in large "containment units". They doggedly track, trap and destroy rogue gases before they can escape and cause climate havoc...

... one, called R12 - a CFC - had a global warming potential almost 10,000 times that of CO2. A single 30lb canister of this gas contained the equivalent of 131 tonnes of CO2 in terms of it global warming potential. This is the equivalent of the average UK car driving just over a million kilometres...

... Current legal fridge gases are better, but still have global warming potentials many times greater than carbon dioxide.

Scientists estimate that by phasing out HFCs, global warming could be reduced by around half a degree Celsius...


So, lets do it, now!


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Message 2074011 - Posted: 22 Apr 2021, 15:48:17 UTC
Last modified: 22 Apr 2021, 15:48:42 UTC

Is this where at long last almost too late, the politics catches up?


Climate change: US surprises summit with bold emissions target
wrote:
The US has pledged to cut carbon emissions by 50-52% below 2005 levels by the end of this decade.

This new target, which will be unveiled at a virtual summit of 40 global leaders, essentially doubles their previous promise.

The Americans hope that their ambitious new plan will encourage China, India and others to go further before the crucial COP26 meeting, in Glasgow in November. But there will be some scepticism about the ability of the US to deliver on its new target, given the divided nature of American politics.

"All of us, and particularly those of us who represent the world's largest economies, we have to step up, President Biden said at the summit's opening address.

"Those that do take action and make bold investments in their people, and the clean energy future, will win the good jobs of tomorrow, and make their economies more resilient, more competitive." Vice-President Kamala Harris added: "As a global community, it is imperative that we act quickly and together to confront this crisis."

"This will require innovation and collaboration around the world."...

... While the Democrats have a majority in the House of Representatives, the Senate is essentially deadlocked, making the passage of new climate legislation rather tricky. "It seems to me that President Biden is in a bit of a bind, and he has to deal with the Congress that he has," said Samantha Gross from the Brookings Institution. "But I believe that Congress, particularly the Republicans haven't really kept up with increasing concern among the American public about climate."...


Extinction Rebellion activists smash windows at Canary Wharf HSBC
wrote:
Extinction Rebellion (XR) activists have shattered at least 19 windows at HSBC's headquarters in east London.

The Earth Day protest at the Canary Wharf branch was staged to draw attention to the bank's links to the fossil fuel industry...

... Activists said the protest was part of their "Money Rebellion" movement against economic institutions contributing to the climate crisis...

... "We will not stand by whilst you [HSBC] invest in runaway greed, whilst people's lives are being shattered by the fossil fuel industries," she added...



Here's hoping that the good words and hopeful targets are followed through with immediate meaningful action, regardless of petty politics.

Will the financial institutions shift their profits to new cleaner tech soon enough?


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Message 2074387 - Posted: 28 Apr 2021, 0:42:22 UTC
Last modified: 28 Apr 2021, 0:42:46 UTC

One example of how to go all-electric for steelmaking:


The EAF Quantum - New Electric Steelmaking
wrote:
Primetals Technologies

[This] movie shows ... the latest evolution of the EAF Quantum


The next step is for the politics to catch up...


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Message 2074943 - Posted: 4 May 2021, 14:24:33 UTC

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Message 2075152 - Posted: 7 May 2021, 2:05:04 UTC
Last modified: 7 May 2021, 2:07:12 UTC

One good solution is to communicate what is happening in terms that people can follow in the here and now:


... {talking} effectively talking about Climate Change
wrote:
... In this actionable talk, communications strategist John Marshall explains why we need to rethink how we talk about climate change -- and offers small but mighty language adjustments to get people to more intuitively understand and care...



That is really alarmingly true and practical and apt and follows some of my experiences when talking to busy people about how to follow ways that are less polluting.

Who cares?!

It really is a case in the here and now of why care...


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Message 2075246 - Posted: 7 May 2021, 23:17:39 UTC
Last modified: 7 May 2021, 23:18:39 UTC

Is this the "Gaia" effect protecting the Earth from us?

Or are we steadily evolving to benefit from better education and a better feeling for living?


US birth rate falls 4% to its lowest point ever
wrote:
The [USA] birth rate fell for the sixth consecutive year in 2020, with the lowest number of babies born since 1979...

... seen across all recorded ethnicities and origins, according to the findings.

The national picture mirrors a decline in births seen worldwide...

... For a generation to exactly replace itself, this number must be at or above 2.1.

According to the CDC, this rate has generally been "below replacement" since 1971 and has consistently been below replacement since 2007. Today, the US total fertility rate sits at 1.6 - another record low.

What's behind the drop?

Experts say the country's tumbling birth rate is closely linked to the average age of [the] mothers. Women are becoming mothers later in life - a phenomenon tied to increases in educational attainment, growing labour force participation and delays in marriage...



Can the world politics and everyone enjoying the wonders of our planet graciously stabilize both our population and pollution?

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Message 2075495 - Posted: 11 May 2021, 0:01:41 UTC

Smaller, cooler, faster, here we go for:


Mind-boggling magnets could unlock plentiful power
wrote:
... The catch is that to make fusion happen here on Earth...

... Much of the engineering challenge has come down to building magnets. They have to be powerful enough to contain an insanely hot, whirling mass of matter, but not use so much electricity that your reactor uses more power than it generates.

Later this year Dr Bob Mumgaard and his team at Commonwealth Fusion Systems (CFS) will test a ground-breaking magnet that they say can make that leap forward...

... CFS is planning a reactor that will house 18 of those magnets ... and has recently selected a site for the reactor in Massachusetts...

[In another] leap forward in magnet technology ... fusion project at Tokamak Energy in the UK ... helping to build a demonstrator that will have a series of powerful magnets working together. "It will be an assembly of many, many coils generating forces that are all interacting and pulling on one another forming a balanced set..." The forces that such magnetic fields can generate are mind-boggling. When operating at full power, Dr Brittles likens the force generated by his magnets to double the pressure at the bottom of the deepest ocean trench...

... "We think our technology will be deployable in a fusion pilot plant in the early 2030s," he says. "I think it will be a global race. There are interesting private ventures in the States. And we will be in a race with them."...



Spectacular!

And hopefully soon enough...


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Message 2075535 - Posted: 11 May 2021, 14:34:37 UTC - in response to Message 2075246.  
Last modified: 11 May 2021, 14:35:03 UTC

Is this the "Gaia" effect protecting the Earth from us?

Or are we steadily evolving to benefit from better education and a better feeling for living?

US birth rate falls 4% to its lowest point ever
wrote:
The [USA] birth rate fell for the sixth consecutive year in 2020, with the lowest number of babies born since 1979...


Similarly so for China and across Asia:

China census: Data shows slowest population growth in decades
wrote:
... - bringing the population to 1.41bn.

The results add pressure on Beijing to boost measures for couples to have more babies and avert a population decline...

... a lower fertility rate is a natural result of China's social and economic development. As countries become more developed, birth rates tend to fall due to education or other priorities such as careers.

Its neighbouring countries Japan and South Korea, for example, have also seen birth rates fall to record lows in recent years despite various government incentives for couples to have more children. Last year, South Korea recorded more deaths than births for the first time in history, raising fresh alarm in a country which already has the world's lowest birth rate...




Can the world politics and everyone enjoying the wonders of our planet graciously stabilize both our population and pollution?


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Message 2076035 - Posted: 17 May 2021, 9:34:52 UTC

JCB unveils hydrogen-fuelled combustion engine technology
Heavy machinery maker JCB has announced a hydrogen-fuelled piston engine that emits no CO2 and which it believes can help the transport industry achieve the UK government’s zero-emissions target quicker than any existing solutions.

JCB claims its research shows that the new engine – based on the hardware of JCB’s Dieselmax 448 four-cylinder engine but with substantial modifications at the top end – not only produces no CO2 but also offers important advantages over battery-electric and hydrogen fuel cell solutions, both of which are considerably more expensive.

JCB’s hydrogen engine is naturally aimed at its own off-highway applications but, after successful initial trials in excavators (which put far greater demands on engines than cars and trucks), the company’s engineers believe they have a technology that can be successfully applied in a much wider range of vehicles.

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Message 2076048 - Posted: 17 May 2021, 13:57:20 UTC - in response to Message 2076035.  

I can just see every job site having to have yet another trailer with a hydrogen fuel station trucked out to the site. Far more efficient than just having a 55 drum on the same transport truck that brings the excavator.
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Message boards : Politics : Climate Change, 'Greenhouse' effects: Solutions #3


 
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