... For example, note the Sonos brouhaha about their earlier products no longer being supported or for the perfectly good devices to be deliberately bricked by the firmware so as not to be resold...

Sonos will stop providing software updates for its oldest products...
wrote:

... Sonos will stop providing software updates for its oldest products, and they’ll no longer receive any new features. The decision impacts “legacy” devices that are currently part of the company’s trade-up program...

... “Without new software updates, access to services and overall functionality of your sound system will eventually be disrupted, particularly as partners evolve their technology,” Sonos warned...

... Last month, Sonos ran into criticism over its “recycle mode,” a software kill-switch that renders these legacy products inoperable whenever customers opt to participate in the trade-up program...

Hence we have the hopeful beginnings of various "Open Source Hardware" projects coming onto the scene!

Further detail and overview and opinion on:

Sonos Should Give Up Hardware-Only Business Model
wrote:

There’s a reason so many companies are practically giving hardware away...

IT is what we allow it to be...
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

There’s a reason so many companies are practically giving hardware away...

Free razor blade handle, blades not so free.

There’s a reason so many companies are practically giving hardware away...

Free razor blade handle, blades not so free.

Free-of-costs cloud, pay to keep access to your data (or pay lots to get your data back!)...


IT is your freedom...

IT really is what we allow it to be...
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Sobering viewing for the here and now...


YouTube - TED: We're building a dystopia just to make people click on ads | Zeynep Tufekci
wrote:

... In an eye-opening talk, she details how the same algorithms companies like Facebook, Google and Amazon use to get you to click on ads are also used to organize your access to ... [everything else!]

Note that this is very real and it is happening now...


IT is very much what we allow it to be...
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

It seems that one must carefully review devices that one intends to purchase for use on their computers/networks, if one intends to peruse any operating system.

Plug-and-Play and Hot-Swap compatibility with no additional drivers required on Windows 7 / 8 / 8.1 / 10, Mac OS X 10.6 or above; NOT for Linux.

Have to admit that they are a nice bit of kit. The 2 bay is very quiet & cool with the 4 bay not as noisy as the D-Link 2 bay NAS.

It seems that one must carefully review devices that one intends to purchase for use on their computers/networks, if one intends to peruse any operating system.

Plug-and-Play and Hot-Swap compatibility with no additional drivers required on Windows 7 / 8 / 8.1 / 10, Mac OS X 10.6 or above; NOT for Linux.

Have to admit that they are a nice bit of kit. The 2 bay is very quiet & cool with the 4 bay not as noisy as the ... 2 bay NAS.

Good poke but of no concern. Linux has long ago won the battle of the OSes and the drivers wars.

Indeed, no new drivers are needed for anything modern that sensibly follows standards.

More of a question now is for how Microsoft adopts the use of more of Linux and for how the Microsoft Marketing shifts gear...


IT is what we allow it to be...
Martin

(Still a Microsoft and Apple free zone here ;-) )

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Indeed, no new drivers are needed for anything modern that sensibly follows standards.

Unix® is the standard, Linux is not.

Good poke but of no concern. Linux has long ago won the battle of the OSes and the drivers wars.

POKE?? Do you not comprehend what you read? I'll recap just for you, I use iOS, Linux & Windows. I like Mint. Also that quote in my previous post came from the manufacturer themselves.

Indeed, no new drivers are needed for anything modern that sensibly follows standards.

No drivers needed? Really? Linux 64 couldn't even detect a bog standard optical mouse. Linux won the driver wars. So why was it suggested a 64 bit driver be downloaded? Shouldn't it be OOB?
Linux 32 couldn't even detect bog standard SATA 3 drives attached via USB.

(Still a Microsoft and Apple free zone here ;-) )

Good for you.
I couldn't give a rats ass for any operating system as long as it does what I want it to do.
It has been suggested that I have "oddball" hardware. Nope all standard. One possible exception is the PCI-E sata card installed (motherboard has 6 sata, I needed 8)
That itself made me check yesterday as to why Linux could not detect either of the DAS. Seeing that quote, okay that's the 4 bay taken care of. What about the 2 bay as the manufacturer states even Linux can use it.
Thought it could be a driver conflict as the sata card is JMicron. The chips for both boxes are JMicron. Checking via device manager, the boxes are USB to SATA while the card is PCI-E to SATA. & no conflicts showing.

Being such a Linux whizzkid, shouldn't you be providing pointers to have the issues resolved?
Or is it a case of "what's in it for me?" Linux is free software, but anything to support it has to be paid for?
Edit:
Follow that through...

More of a question now is for how Microsoft adopts the use of more of Linux and for how the Microsoft Marketing shifts gear...

...maybe turn Linux into a real OOB experience thereby wiping out all the "different" flavours. :-)

For the sake of curiosity, you're welcome to start a new thread for your hardware and start with the command line commands:

uname -a
sudo lshw

to list your system hardware.


And yes, free libre open source software (FLOSS) and Linux do not mean free support. There are many generous people who are willing to help, and there is some very good comradry in the FLOSS world, but also people's time is just as precious as yours...

If needed, there is lots of paid-for support.

There are also many local Linux enthusiasts groups. Interestingly, the local Linux group I'm involved with has long ago moved on from "Install Fests" and 'fix-it' nights to now being mainly a social group. Linux is now too easy to install and works well enough to simply work. The main discussions now are about the apps or for tweaks or for the latest sexy hardware.

All good positive fun!


IT very much is what we make it,
Martin

ps: POKE is also an old BASIC memory command for the sake of a bad pun :-)

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

I'll take a PEEK. :-)

Linux is now too easy to install and works well enough to simply work.

ROFLMFAO!

I'm so glad I'm a persistent devil. :-)
Tried Zorin 15.1 64 yesterday. It failed. Same issue as all the other attempts.
So back to Google. No joy on the specific issue I experienced but did see numerous possibilities that may or not resolve the issue.
So this afternoon, tried again.
1: power down/disconnect all USB devices.
2: Change to a PS2 KB (No PS 2 Mice at hand - further test with USB KB, successful).
3: Reboot with Mint 19.3 64....

...Ah Bisto!


Nice, so next step.
1: Plug in USB thumb drive. :-)
2: Power up USB 1 bay Backup enclosure. :-)
3: Power up USB 2 bay DAS. :-)
4: Power up USB 4 bay DAS. :-(
5: Power up NAS. :-)
6: Take screenshot. :-)

Just a couple of "niggly" personal points.
1: Win shows not only the total capacity of each drive but the remaining space.
2: The 1st 2 drives in the image are optical drives connected via a JMicron PCI-E to SATA card. The 2 & 4 bay DAS use JMS58XX series chipset. I've assumed (so will have to research further) that the manufacturer states that the 4 bay is not for Linux (using RAID) so it should be detected using JBOD like the 2 bay.

All this is using Mint 19.3 64 Live & it detected & also displayed on screen PDQ, all devices. Just hoping that a physical installation works just as well.

Now for the culprit!
Mint goes well with Lamb, but it seems it hates Apple. During all attempts of both Live & physical installations, had my iPhone connected. This attempt, disconnected. :-)

Now for the culprit!
Mint goes well with Lamb, but it seems it hates Apple. During all attempts of both Live & physical installations, had my iPhone connected. This attempt, disconnected. :-)

Could be the order the USB ports are brought alive on boot or which port things are plugged into.

Now for the culprit!
Mint goes well with Lamb, but it seems it hates Apple. During all attempts of both Live & physical installations, had my iPhone connected. This attempt, disconnected. :-)

Could be the order the USB ports are brought alive on boot or which port things are plugged into.

Already tested those possibilities. Not an issue. Did further tests by trying reboots using all the failed distro's already tried. All a-o-k with iPhone disconnected, all failed with it connected.

There you go, I'd class an iPhone as "oddball hardware". :-D

Cheers.

Now for the culprit!
Mint goes well with Lamb, but it seems it hates Apple. During all attempts of both Live & physical installations, had my iPhone connected. This attempt, disconnected. :-)

Could be the order the USB ports are brought alive on boot or which port things are plugged into.

Already tested those possibilities. Not an issue. Did further tests by trying reboots using all the failed distro's already tried. All a-o-k with iPhone disconnected, all failed with it connected.

Okay. I've personally had issues getting an iPod to connect to an iMac through a hub. I had to reboot the hub to make everything happy. I'm guessing Doze may be sending an extra reset commend to the Hub that Linux / Unix doesn't and apparently the iPod wants to see that reset. (Remember Mac OS is Unix)

... Agreed, the 'secret' firmware blobs are very prominently a security problem...

For a "yet another example of proprietary obscured sloppy insecurity":

Intel Discovers Security Flaw in CSME Firmware
wrote:

The flaw means vulnerability to privilege escalation, denial of service and information disclosure...

... The bug affects all Intel CPUs that come with a CSME microcontroller unit (MCU), with the exception of newer Ice Lake and Comet Lake processor generations...

... Security Issues Keep Plaguing Intel Firmware

Only a few years ago, we’d hardly even hear about security issues with Intel firmware. But these days, especially with Intel Management Engine (ME), one of several firmware subsets of CSME, there seem to be a couple of major disclosures every year. Exploits of Intel’s ME/CSME chips and firmware can enable an attacker to remotely bypass a computer’s security solutions and take it over...

IT is what we allow it to be...
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

... Agreed, the 'secret' firmware blobs are very prominently a security problem...

For a "yet another example of proprietary obscured sloppy insecurity":

Intel Discovers Security Flaw in CSME Firmware
wrote:

The flaw means vulnerability to privilege escalation, denial of service and information disclosure...

... The bug affects all Intel CPUs that come with a CSME microcontroller unit (MCU), with the exception of newer Ice Lake and Comet Lake processor generations...

... Security Issues Keep Plaguing Intel Firmware

Only a few years ago, we’d hardly even hear about security issues with Intel firmware. But these days, especially with Intel Management Engine (ME), one of several firmware subsets of CSME, there seem to be a couple of major disclosures every year. Exploits of Intel’s ME/CSME chips and firmware can enable an attacker to remotely bypass a computer’s security solutions and take it over...

IT is what we allow it to be...

As for most firmware updates, chances are system manufacturers will only update the most recent devices, with the vast majority of in-use devices remaining vulnerable to attacks.

What you pay for ...

Apple is not the culprit. :-(
Looked forward to installing it this afternoon. Sadly, the gremlin crept in - same problem as before. Nothing whatsoever changed on system.
No worries, gave up the ghost with regards to desktop.
Using the same disk, tested on laptop. Live version, no issues so install. Job done, Currently installing all updates via update manager.
However there was a gremlin. Would not log into Wi-Fi. entered correct password but no joy. So, possible driver missing. Would be nice to get it working so I can either sit on the sofa or at a table working away. No issues with Ethernet, or the mouse pad for that matter. :-)
So that's my net gateway done. :-)
The laptop was purchased Nov 2011. An Intel :-(
This cruncher got new MB, CPU, RAM, GPU in 2014.
No esoteric hardware on-board so...
...19.3 64 installs & works on a 9 year old laptop but...

...now that Mint 64 is up & running, connected iPhone. Seen instantly & up popped an action box. Clicked on open folder & bingo, all 87 images on show. hmm...

Dacom-3 running Mint 19.3 64
Opened software manager, entered Boinc in search....
...installed, no added extras to do...sweet.

Are you doing these installs with minimal hardware and network connections or have you got everything connected while doing this?

Yes, some laptops may take a bit of searching to get their Wi-Fi working as there are so many chips on the market that are used in them and a few are not common at all.

Cheers.

For the desktop installations, used your tip, all windows drives disconnected as was everything else, just had 1 drive, PS2 KB & standard HID compliant USB mouse + Net connection. Nothing else. All 64 bit distros failed to detect the mouse so don't know how it actually did so the once.