so many people want these things to be true

Yes, I would say I want there to be an ETI discovered during my lifetime, but I'm not lunatic fringe about it. I'm an optimistic skeptic, with both feet planted firmly on the ground. Ironically, I think some sort of governmental suppression of a discovery would be easier to carry out with the tin-foil hatters because they are already so illogically eager to believe in something. ~Make up a story even wilder than alien visitation, and you can divert their attention.

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The mind is a weird and mysterious place

so many people want these things to be true

Yes, I would say I want there to be an ETI discovered during my lifetime, but I'm not lunatic fringe about it. I'm an optimistic skeptic, with both feet planted firmly on the ground. Ironically, I think some sort of governmental suppression of a discovery would be easier to carry out with the tin-foil hatters because they are already so illogically eager to believe in something. ~Make up a story even wilder than alien visitation, and you can divert their attention.

Right now I'd be happy with an ET bacteria. The I part may be too much to ask for.

well, as I understand it that's exactly what theses "birdies" are good for: Artificially injecting a "signal" into the processing pipeline and look it if would get not detected/detected/thrown away as RFI in the end. To make sure we would actually detect ET if it's in the data.

But what if this is perhaps not the intended meaning either, for also that of a purpose?

RFI supposedly means spike overflow only, and not necessarily any signal at all, which next also should be an intelligent one,
either for that of any difference, or possibly for that of the better.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/08/13/mississippi-man-alien-abduction-ufo-encounter/982669002/

Here one of those stories perhaps standing out a little, from also being visible in the crowd, for perhaps a little better as well.

If still not any Luyten's Star either, only for that of vanishing instead, among the crowded stars in the visible sky, perhaps not always the radio signal which
always matters, for only the experience itself, which could be a personal one as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luyten%27s_Star

But next both one step forward, and also backward, if not any sense of making a couple of things being worth a penny, or even a shilling,
for that of any meaning, except for only given value itself.

Make it credibility for that of a user, next also a given person as well, except for perhaps not any observational evidence, for also that of fact,
which could be meant to support any such evidence, sometimes by using the word "underpinning", or the like.

Perhaps it rather should be that of "backward compatibility" of sorts, when you perhaps could make a reference to a similar event of the past,
but perhaps still not any Proof, for also that of Evidence.

Life could perhaps be precious, at least the way we could know it, but next also with reference to that of the Universe itself, for also a comparison,
when next also thinking about how small we are, in the larger perspective, if not any context either.

That's actually correctly referred to as the far side of the moon as both sides get equally dark. I too think building a radio telescope on the far side of the moon should be a high priority.

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Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

Building a base on the far side of the Moon is, as Chris suggests, just one of the challenges.
Keeping it supplied and maintained is another.
Then, how about getting the vast amounts of data back to Earth?
It is on the far side of the moon, so the data has to be moved "half way" round the Moon before beaming it back to Earth. To limit RFI problems that implies not using radio technology for the first part of the journey, so fibre optic cables with all the repeater infrastructure they need. Then a powerful transmission station, probably to a number of Earth stations. Not something that could be built in a hurry....

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Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

If we couldn't do that on the far side of the moon then we better rethink sending men to Mars, or anywhere else in space such as an asteroid.

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Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

A seemingly more workable solution for a radio telescope on the far side of the Moon would have it just over onto the far side, but still out of sight of the Earth. This would provide the needed shielding from our own radio waves, but greatly simplify the process of getting the signals back to Earth.

By selecting a site that was briefly brought into sight of Earth by the Moon's libration, no cabling, relay satellites, or towers would be needed. The data could be stored, and transmitted to Earth, once a month.

It also seems worth considering, sending a automated, self-deploying radio telescope to that location on the Moon. This would remove the difficulties connected with having astronauts do the work.

We already have a good deal of experience with automatically deploying fairly large radio dishes on Earth- orbiting satellites, and landing automated probes on distant planets. Combining these skill sets should bring a lunar radio telescope within reach.

A seemingly more workable solution for a radio telescope on the far side of the Moon would have it just over onto the far side, but still out of sight of the Earth. This would provide the needed shielding from our own radio waves, but greatly simplify the process of getting the signals back to Earth.

By selecting a site that was briefly brought into sight of Earth by the Moon's libration, no cabling, relay satellites, or towers would be needed. The data could be stored, and transmitted to Earth, once a month.

It also seems worth considering, sending a automated, self-deploying radio telescope to that location on the Moon. This would remove the difficulties connected with having astronauts do the work.

We already have a good deal of experience with automatically deploying fairly large radio dishes on Earth- orbiting satellites, and landing automated probes on distant planets. Combining these skill sets should bring a lunar radio telescope within reach.

What he said.

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Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

By selecting a site that was briefly brought into sight of Earth by the Moon's libration, no cabling, relay satellites, or towers would be needed. The data could be stored, and transmitted to Earth, once a month.

That's a very clever idea!

It also seems worth considering, sending a automated, self-deploying radio telescope to that location on the Moon. This would remove the difficulties connected with having astronauts do the work.

If they can work out the kinks and finally get James Webb in operation, that's an interesting idea, too, but it seems to be a tall order.

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The mind is a weird and mysterious place

Basic science seems useless but sometimes it gives useful results. Radio astronomy has produced the algorithms now used in Computerized Axial Tomography scans and the research on particle accelerators has produced the hadronic accelerators now used in cancer therapy. My daughter was working on this subject for her laurea thesis, and the accelerator was to be built in Milano in Abbazia Mirasole, a Benedictine monastery, then it went to Pavia for political reasons but it is working and curing people.
Tullio

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All good discussions here. I am a great believer that space pursuits and requisite technology will wash down to the manufacturing community in due time.

It is not unreasonable to answer the question of what forms of life, if any, formed on Mars or may still be extant. This should be done by robots that can dig down far enough or wander into any caves that are found.

It is not unreasonable to upgrade our space station especially since more options are now becoming available for lifting bodies. I favor the beautiful bicycle wheel model first proposed by Willy Ley back in the 50's and as appeared in Kubrick's "2001-A Space Odyssey".

I don't think it is hubris to think that we can and should establish a moon base and possibly a small colony there.

As for a manned trip to Mars--I think that solving the problem of cosmic rays may be difficult. But if it could be done, then I think that a self-sustaining base on Mars might just be a possibility in the distant future.

Let's not wait for someone else to do it--international cooperation and technological advances will be worth the effort and will provide the benefits to Mankind for progress in this the third Milenium.

I agree that manned missions to Mars are needless. We can explore Mars with robotic missions. It seems that Opportunity has been blinded by a dust storm and has no power. But it was planned to last three months and has lasted ten years.
Tullio

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A Russian volunteer, which was banned for unknown reasons, wrote that after the ISS Russia will build a space station that will be 70% military and 30% civilian. I objected that ESA and other international institutions will not cooperate with a military station, and he did not reply. Now it seems that Trump will build a US Space Force alongside the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marine Corps, so it is likely that he too,like Putin, wants a military space station. There is an international Treaty against putting weapons in space but maybe Putin and Trump think of treatises as "pieces of paper", like Mussolini.
Tullio

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There is an international Treaty against putting weapons in space but maybe Putin and Trump think of treatises as "pieces of paper", like Mussolini.
Tullio

There is much talk about pieces of paper in the Politics forums which is where it belongs.

I am speaking of a Space treaty and it belongs here.
Tullio

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I think we should rally against the militarization of space apparently sought by the Great Powers, here or elsewhere. The banned Russian volunteer wrote that Russia will build a military space station. No one reacted salvo myself, a pensioner.
Tullio

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It will be down to the USA, Russia, or China.

And perhaps India.
https://www.dw.com/en/indias-astronaut-mission-will-push-space-program-to-the-limit/a-45108320

Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi has promised to send an Indian national into space by 2022 — when the country will celebrate the 75th anniversary of its independence from British colonial rule.
"India will send into space — a man or a woman — by 2022, before that if possible," Modi said, adding that the chosen astronaut would be "carrying the national flag."

Oops... Politics again...

Or perhaps Politics only, for that of sometimes an argument as well, except for not asking who invented the "Laws".

Makes me next think about "Cosmological argument" as well, except for only that of a star city, for only that of people living around.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_argument

Except for a never ending story, of course.

Aside from the fact we don't have a cold war era space race to spark radical new developments like a beefier space station, a moon base, or a Mars colony, I think another reason the governments are not in any hurry is just because we haven't had any genuine ETI visitations. I think if we had, attempting suppression of that information would not be the issue. The issue would be let's get out there and explore more, and perhaps contact with these aliens would provide new insight to the technology needed to get things going.

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The mind is a weird and mysterious place