Learning foreign language

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moomin
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Message 1932134 - Posted: 26 Apr 2018, 22:00:46 UTC - in response to Message 1932048.  

I'm a Swede and I never heard someone speeking Nynorsk.
At least I don't think so.
However one thing that differ Danish and Swedish languages from Norwegian is that they are keeping very much of the old Norse.
For instance Television is Fjernsyn (farsight) in norwegian.
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Message 1932214 - Posted: 27 Apr 2018, 2:40:30 UTC - in response to Message 1932134.  
Last modified: 27 Apr 2018, 2:49:51 UTC

I'm a Swede and I never heard someone speeking Nynorsk


I am not surprised, as it is a formally written variant of the Norwegian language (as is the other variant Bokmål).

The spoken (oral) language is a collection of various dialects, some of which sound closer to Nynorsk and some closer to Bokmål.
In fact the very foundation of Nynorsk is a compilation of various rural dialects made by the poet Ivar Aasen after his journeys through the Norwegian countryside in the 1840s. Mr Aasen compiled and formalised the dialects he heared, and founded what he called 'Landsmål' (a predecessor of modern Nynorsk).
His work was a reaction to a national debate which arose in the 1830s on the need of a separate written Norwegian language. Up till then written Norwegian was basically Danish, due to Norway being part of a royal union with Denmark for a period of >400 years. This union ended with the 'treaty of Kiel' (after the Napoleonic wars) and the signing of the Norwegian Constitution on May 17th, 1814 (Constitution Day).
The other written Norwegian language variant 'Bokmål' is rather based on another, more soft and evolutionary, separation from Danish. Even today, >200 years later, the differences between writtten Bokmål and Danish are surprisingly small.

I can comfort you by saying: You won't find anyone speeking Bokmål either, (the other written variant).
In oral form the dialects hold a strong position in Norway, perhaps stronger than compared to its Nordic siblings. Dialects are well kept and used, even in national media. The dialect trends are many and evident. This contributes to the fact that most Norwegians easily reveal their regional origin when speaking. This is partly a result of a conscious oral language policy, but also a historical result of long geographical distances between people (many long fjords, steep hills, and high mountains).
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Message 1932284 - Posted: 27 Apr 2018, 11:21:42 UTC - in response to Message 1932214.  
Last modified: 27 Apr 2018, 11:39:33 UTC

I think in most languages spoken language differ from written language.
In social media for instance many tend to write like you talk.
To foreigners the text become unintelligible.

Another thing. I can read Danish quite well but when a Dane speak it...
"What? Say again please. Subtitles please."
Sounds like that they are eating Danish while speaking:)
Not even the Danes can understand Danish.
https://www.thelocal.dk/20150304/not-even-the-danes-can-understand-danish
One thing every foreigner living in Denmark knows to be true is that it's a lot easier to comprehend written Danish than spoken Danish. That's why many foreigners, even after years of living in Denmark, have to turn on Danish subtitles in order to follow along with Danish TV shows and films.
But fret not foreigners, you're not alone. Not even the natives, it seems, can understand mumble-mouthed Danish actors.
Example:)
https://youtu.be/cB0xxj-IeIQ
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Message 1932304 - Posted: 27 Apr 2018, 13:34:19 UTC - in response to Message 1932284.  

I have a question: in your language (Sweden, Norwegian and maybe Finnish) this letter how pronunce?

---> ø

It's like the ''O'' of Latin?
MYGA! MAKE YAWN GREAT AGAIN
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Message 1932322 - Posted: 27 Apr 2018, 14:37:59 UTC - in response to Message 1932304.  
Last modified: 27 Apr 2018, 14:46:14 UTC

I have a question: in your language (Sweden, Norwegian and maybe Finnish) this letter how pronunce?
---> ø
It's like the ''O'' of Latin?
Now it's getting complicated:)
In the latin alphabet that is "translated" to "oe".
In my international passport they changed my surname from ö to oe.
Which means I can not even recognize my own name abroad.
Grrr:(
Actually Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Iceland and Finland have different alphabets.
Here we have the letters ÅÄÖ (in Sweden) as an addition to the Latin alphabet.
A problem though is that our Swedish letters doesn't look the same in Norway and Denmark.
There is even a difference between Norway's and Denmark's letters.
The letter ø is ö in Sweden.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96
Ö means also island in Swedish.
And Ã… means a quite watercourse.
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Message 1932324 - Posted: 27 Apr 2018, 14:42:23 UTC - in response to Message 1932322.  
Last modified: 27 Apr 2018, 14:42:51 UTC

Damn, this is hard. :S
From wikipedia :

Danish alphabet.
MYGA! MAKE YAWN GREAT AGAIN
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Message 1932326 - Posted: 27 Apr 2018, 14:58:29 UTC - in response to Message 1932324.  

Damn, this is hard. :S
From wikipedia :
Danish alphabet.
Hehe:)
The major problem is that Danes doesn't pronounce consonants as clearly as we other do.
It's like having a pillow between your ear when speaking in the phone trying to understand what the other part are saying.
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Message 1932328 - Posted: 27 Apr 2018, 15:07:34 UTC - in response to Message 1932326.  

Damn, this is hard. :S
From wikipedia :
Danish alphabet.
Hehe:)
The major problem is that Danes doesn't pronounce consonants as clearly as we other do.
It's like having a pillow between your ear when speaking in the phone trying to understand what the other part are saying.


:S
Do you speak Danish for work or only during holidays?

Norwegian alphabet
MYGA! MAKE YAWN GREAT AGAIN
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Message 1932338 - Posted: 27 Apr 2018, 15:36:56 UTC - in response to Message 1932328.  

Actually I have been trying to translate Swedish to Norwegian in my work.
I gave up and I got the correct translation from a Norwegian guy.
As for holidays Norwegians comes to Sweden. Not vice versa.
Every year Strömstad in Bohuslän is invaded by party longing Norwegians.
Det är kjempefint:)
Holidays in Denmark?
Then party longing Swedes invade Denmark.
Der är dejligt:)
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Message 1932347 - Posted: 27 Apr 2018, 17:01:05 UTC - in response to Message 1932284.  

Another thing. I can read Danish quite well but when a Dane speak it...
"What? Say again please. Subtitles please."
Sounds like that they are eating Danish while speaking:)
Not even the Danes can understand Danish.

Methinks thou hast a point in thine evaluation of spoken Danish 😀
Much to the enjoyment of most Norwegians (and maybe others too).
Check this video to support my (our?) view. Even americans might have a laugh 🤣

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsiSqzGRgqs
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Message 1932392 - Posted: 27 Apr 2018, 21:24:04 UTC

Their own language is a barrier to themselves. Lol. All three knew English and that would have helped maybe.

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Message 1932393 - Posted: 27 Apr 2018, 21:38:50 UTC - in response to Message 1932347.  
Last modified: 27 Apr 2018, 21:49:44 UTC

Hehe:)
I just today met a Norwegian couple.
Anyway. It started with their dog "Sooma", a Scottish Terrier.
Looks like we have many languages to deal with at the same time,
We even discussed about Nynorsk and Bokmål.
And about Swedish languages of course:)
Arf. Arf.
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Message 1932410 - Posted: 28 Apr 2018, 0:10:54 UTC - in response to Message 1932322.  

I have a question: in your language (Sweden, Norwegian and maybe Finnish) this letter how pronunce?
---> ø
It's like the ''O'' of Latin?

Actually Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Iceland and Finland have different alphabets.
Here we have the letters ÅÄÖ (in Sweden) as an addition to the Latin alphabet.
A problem though is that our Swedish letters doesn't look the same in Norway and Denmark.


As explained above, Nordic alphabets usually end with 3 extra letters. In Norwegian and Danish these letters are:
æ, ø, å - (capitals) Æ, Ø, Å
In Norwegian (at least) they are pronounced:
æ - like vowel sound in English 'sad', 'mad', 'cat' or 'hat'
ø - like vowel sound in English 'learn' or 'burn'.
Ã¥ - like vowel sound in English 'saw', 'bought' or 'fought'.

The same vowel sounds are also found in Swedish (and Finnish I think), but the 2 former are written:
ä (= æ), ö (= ø) - similar to German

Icelandic also has the vowels æ and ö. It also contains 2 extra consonants:
ð - pronounced like the 'th' sound in 'those' or 'though' (voiced)
þ - pronounced like the 'th' sound in 'thin' or 'think' (unvoiced)

Pronunciation ain't easy for visitors to the Nordic countries (Norden) 😉
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Message 1932416 - Posted: 28 Apr 2018, 0:40:15 UTC - in response to Message 1932410.  

Pronunciation ain't easy for visitors to the Nordic countries (Norden) 😉
That's the easy part.
However when using a computer...
Then ÅÄÖ is a big problem.
In Denmark, Norway and Sweden we all have different keyboards!
And Germany and Estonia as well.
The word Ođđasat to make it even further complicated:)
Ođđasat means news in the Sami language.
Are there any keyboards that support the letter "Ä‘"?
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Message 1932462 - Posted: 28 Apr 2018, 7:19:31 UTC

I love it when people say a letter is pronounced "like the English letter in word" - English has many regional variations in pronunciation, and I spend the next few minutes trying to work out which variation is actually meant - such are the joys of having English as one's second language... There is a pronunciation alphabet that is supposed to eliminate such confusion, but talking to linguists even they find it excessively hard to work with...
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Message 1932472 - Posted: 28 Apr 2018, 8:18:31 UTC
Last modified: 28 Apr 2018, 8:19:07 UTC

Many years ago, when working for Mondadori, I wrote an illustrated book "Esperimenti con i grandi scienziati", which was translated in 7 languages. Unfortunately, i had given Mondadori the right of all translations, in change of a lump sum. I have now only the Norwegian edition. Since I don't understand it, can somebody tell me which kind of Norwegian is this back cover text and what does it mean:
Verden og vi
Et moderne kunnskapbibliotek som i tekst og bilder gir spennende nyttig viten: fra dyr og planter til historie og forhistorie,teknikk og samfunn.
The publisher is Cappelen.
Thanks
Tullio
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Message 1932478 - Posted: 28 Apr 2018, 8:47:22 UTC - in response to Message 1932410.  
Last modified: 28 Apr 2018, 8:48:04 UTC

I have a question: in your language (Sweden, Norwegian and maybe Finnish) this letter how pronunce?
---> ø
It's like the ''O'' of Latin?

Actually Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Iceland and Finland have different alphabets.
Here we have the letters ÅÄÖ (in Sweden) as an addition to the Latin alphabet.
A problem though is that our Swedish letters doesn't look the same in Norway and Denmark.


As explained above, Nordic alphabets usually end with 3 extra letters. In Norwegian and Danish these letters are:
æ, ø, å - (capitals) Æ, Ø, Å
In Norwegian (at least) they are pronounced:
æ - like vowel sound in English 'sad', 'mad', 'cat' or 'hat'
ø - like vowel sound in English 'learn' or 'burn'.
Ã¥ - like vowel sound in English 'saw', 'bought' or 'fought'.

The same vowel sounds are also found in Swedish (and Finnish I think), but the 2 former are written:
ä (= æ), ö (= ø) - similar to German

Icelandic also has the vowels æ and ö. It also contains 2 extra consonants:
ð - pronounced like the 'th' sound in 'those' or 'though' (voiced)
þ - pronounced like the 'th' sound in 'thin' or 'think' (unvoiced)

Pronunciation ain't easy for visitors to the Nordic countries (Norden) 😉


I suppose you have too different dialects from zones. For example, a Norwegian from the '' north '' has a different pronunciation than a Norwegian from '' south ''?

Norwegian, Swedish, Finnish, Danish and Dutch have a sort of '' common '' language?
MYGA! MAKE YAWN GREAT AGAIN
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Message 1932485 - Posted: 28 Apr 2018, 9:55:44 UTC - in response to Message 1932472.  
Last modified: 28 Apr 2018, 10:03:12 UTC

Many years ago, when working for Mondadori, I wrote an illustrated book "Esperimenti con i grandi scienziati", which was translated in 7 languages. Unfortunately, i had given Mondadori the right of all translations, in change of a lump sum. I have now only the Norwegian edition. Since I don't understand it, can somebody tell me which kind of Norwegian is this back cover text and what does it mean:
Verden og vi
Et moderne kunnskapbibliotek som i tekst og bilder gir spennende nyttig viten: fra dyr og planter til historie og forhistorie,teknikk og samfunn.
The publisher is Cappelen.
Thanks
Tullio
The translation is easy.
Whether it's Nynorsk or Bokmål I can't tell.
I haven't eaten lutefisk for some time:)
The world and us.
A modern library of knowledge that in text and pictures gives exciting useful knowledge: From animals and plants to history and prehistory, technology and society.

The background of Nynorsk and Bokmål is historical. For 300 years, Norway was a part of Denmark, and Danish was the official writing language in Norway. After the release in the early 1800's, the Norwegians would create their own Norwegian writing language. There were two competing methods. One method adjusted the Danish so that it gradually approached Norwegian language (thus created the Bokmål). The second method created a whole new writing language that took its starting point in Norwegian dialects (so created today's Nynorsk).
As a Norwegian school student you can choose which language you want to use as the main language. Today, almost 90% choose Bokmål and about 10% choose Nynorsk.
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Message 1932489 - Posted: 28 Apr 2018, 10:40:02 UTC - in response to Message 1932478.  

I suppose you have too different dialects from zones. For example, a Norwegian from the '' north '' has a different pronunciation than a Norwegian from '' south ''?
Indeed.
Like people from the northern part of Norway speak almost Swedish.
And people from the northern part of Jylland, Denmark speak almost Norwegian/Swedish.
Norwegian, Swedish, Finnish, Danish and Dutch have a sort of '' common '' language?
Sort of:)
According to many Norwegian, Swedish and Danish languages have only dialectal differences.
Same grammer but sometimes different words.
Dutch have many Scandinavian words but so do English. About 50% :)

Finnish. Oh dear...
Now that's completely different:)
Not even part of the Latin and German language group.
It's a Finno-Ugric language.
So is Sami that actually is an offical language here in Sweden.
Try this:)
Ođđasat, dálkedieđut ja áigeguovdilis ságat, mánáid- ja nuoraidprográmmat, musihkka ja guoimmuheapmi.
Hint. Guoimmuheapmi means entertaiment.
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Message 1932494 - Posted: 28 Apr 2018, 11:38:32 UTC

Prof. Luca Cavalli Sforza of the University of Pavia and Stanford University has made a life work of connecting DNA and language, so people with different DNA speak different languages. In Italy there are three main DNA groups, the North which is Celtic, the Center which is Etruscan and the South which is Greek. Then there is Sardinia, with a totally different DNA and a totally different language. Then the dialect of Tuscany became the Italian national language by the works of Dante, Petrarca and Boccaccio.
Tullio
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