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Profile j mercer
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Message 1902438 - Posted: 23 Nov 2017, 1:24:56 UTC - in response to Message 1902435.  

Also get that cover screwed back in place. Having it sag is putting stress on the breakers where they plug into your load center.

Good eye J. Mileski.
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Message 1902444 - Posted: 23 Nov 2017, 1:38:47 UTC - in response to Message 1902382.  

There appears to be a bar connecting the two "blue" breakers" on the right - is this the case, or is it an optical illusion?



It is not an illusion
BR type quad breaker
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Message 1902450 - Posted: 23 Nov 2017, 2:02:25 UTC - in response to Message 1902447.  


I'd like to get a new cover for the load center too, one not so "holey".
I guess I could take the cover and the screw down to our half Home Depot and see what they have as a replacement.
My box looks sort of like a Square D, I didn't know D's could be Square. ;)
Sorry I could not help Myself, thanks for the tip on the breakers J. Mileski.

I doubt you will be able to get a new cover. They are usually not sold separately.
However, you should be able to get 'blank' covers to fill any spots no longer occupied by a circuit breaker.

Meow.
"Time is simply the mechanism that keeps everything from happening all at once."

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Message 1902477 - Posted: 23 Nov 2017, 5:26:18 UTC

Home depot has one exactly like yours, including the main breaker for $71. But you don't need it. Just get the filler plates to cover the extra holes. A 3 pack is $3.98 and the screws #10-32 x 3/4 in. Phillips-Slotted Pan-Head Machine Screws $1.18 for a 4 pack.
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Message 1902512 - Posted: 23 Nov 2017, 10:00:25 UTC - in response to Message 1902487.  

In the UK on older houses we use the incoming gas or water pipes as earthing points

Sounds a little dangerous to connect a ground wire to a gas pipe.
The mind is a weird and mysterious place
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Message 1902514 - Posted: 23 Nov 2017, 10:10:47 UTC
Last modified: 23 Nov 2017, 10:16:05 UTC

When I upgraded my main service box from the original 100A to a 200A, I drove in 3 8-foot ground rods for the best earth ground I could get. Standard practice is also to connect a ground to the water main. And then the earth ground is bonded to the neutral bus bars in the service box as well. So in practice, the outlets have both a grounded neutral and the safety earth ground connection on the ground pin.
"Time is simply the mechanism that keeps everything from happening all at once."

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Message 1902516 - Posted: 23 Nov 2017, 10:21:24 UTC - in response to Message 1902512.  

It was - and has been banned for new, or revised, installations for a good number of years.
The situation is being made "different" with the increasing use of plastic pipes for water & gas supply.
As one can imagine it's great "fun" when they decide to replace damaged pipes - I'm just waiting for them to replace my front drive & garage floor after that was dug up to replace my neighbour's gas feed pipe after his builder managed to put the back-hoe spade onto the pipe. (I was out of the country at the time so didn't have to evacuate, but do have to put up with the mess until they find the right shaped Tuit - apparently round ones are in short supply)
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Message 1902517 - Posted: 23 Nov 2017, 11:00:05 UTC - in response to Message 1902512.  

In the UK on older houses we use the incoming gas or water pipes as earthing points

Sounds a little dangerous to connect a ground wire to a gas pipe.

Indeed. It's also illegal.
http://www.ecmweb.com/code-basics/gas-pipe-grounding-legal
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Message 1902519 - Posted: 23 Nov 2017, 11:20:16 UTC - in response to Message 1902487.  

To put an earth spike into the ground so close to a wall is not a good idea. On the "wrong side" of the building it can be very dry.
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Message 1902520 - Posted: 23 Nov 2017, 11:31:06 UTC - in response to Message 1902519.  

To put an earth spike into the ground so close to a wall is not a good idea. On the "wrong side" of the building it can be very dry.

Mine were driven in about 10 feet out from the foundation, about 3 feet apart.
"Time is simply the mechanism that keeps everything from happening all at once."

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Message 1902561 - Posted: 23 Nov 2017, 18:55:52 UTC - in response to Message 1902487.  

The earthing arrangements in the USA really confuse me! In the UK on older houses we use the incoming gas or water pipes as earthing points, the more modern houses and flats with plastic services use a separate earth spike.








It also appears that the neutral earthing system is in use in the USA and Canada, more info here.

LV earthing.

All I can say is that I'm glad I live in the UK with proper 3 pin plugs and sockets and earthing.

Earthing (UK) and grounding (US) are the same thing.

The only return UK have is through the moist earth/dirt/soil. In US we have a neutral hard wire that is connected to earth/dirt/soil and back to the distribution system's common neutral/ground. Earth/dirt/soil/grounded/bonding/neutral are all at the same potential because of the hard wire inter connection. The US is hard wired to system neutral/ground. UK relies on a good galvanic response from moist earth/dirt/soil for the return. US prefers wire, UK uses moist earth/dirt/soil. It took three ground rods to get a good ground at Kittyman's. Multiple layers of safety. If system neutral opens there is still a return path through moist dirt and vise verse earthing fails there is still a hard wire return. Some areas of US only need one rod (my wet Washington State), other require several (dry climate). Lifting a UK un-bond wire off a gas line can cause an electrical spark/arc/electrocution, why UK has warning signs on ground bondings. The US doesn't have or need warnings on bonding wires. Electrical distribution systems in the US are mostly a three/four (single phase/three phase) wire Open/Closed Wye circuit, where UK uses two/three (single phase/three phase) wire Open/Closed Delta circuit . The US depends on a hard wire for return where UK depends on moist earth/dirt for return. As a forty year electrical worker (IBEW 483, working batteries to 500KV hot) I prefer hard wire over moist dirt galvanic responses any day.

I remember the phone system from the 60s in UK. Same principle, UK moist dirt/earth for return vs. US's hard wire return.
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Message 1902565 - Posted: 23 Nov 2017, 19:19:45 UTC
Last modified: 23 Nov 2017, 19:25:06 UTC

Here we have the electrician proverb.
Unless we earth, the priest will earth you.
or perhaps
Unless we ground, the priest will ground you.
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Message 1902566 - Posted: 23 Nov 2017, 19:20:35 UTC - in response to Message 1902563.  

OT:
Caliche

In Eastern Washington we had to use drills and dynamite to make holes for power poles in that stuff. Only thing harder is rock. Har...
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Message 1902577 - Posted: 23 Nov 2017, 20:05:50 UTC - in response to Message 1902523.  

When we had our new kitchen installed the electrician firstly looked at our old fuse box which was a ceramic re-wirable one from the 1950's

Yep, this house had that type of box, too. I remember thinking it was fun when I was a kid to go downstairs in the basement and unscrew a bad fuse and put a new one in. My mother had things updated to a breaker box in '97.
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Message 1902586 - Posted: 23 Nov 2017, 20:17:46 UTC - in response to Message 1902577.  

When we had our new kitchen installed the electrician firstly looked at our old fuse box which was a ceramic re-wirable one from the 1950's

Yep, this house had that type of box, too. I remember thinking it was fun when I was a kid to go downstairs in the basement and unscrew a bad fuse and put a new one in. My mother had things updated to a breaker box in '97.

We still have those fuses...

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Profile Gordon Lowe
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Message 1902587 - Posted: 23 Nov 2017, 20:20:32 UTC - in response to Message 1902586.  
Last modified: 23 Nov 2017, 20:21:18 UTC

When we had our new kitchen installed the electrician firstly looked at our old fuse box which was a ceramic re-wirable one from the 1950's

Yep, this house had that type of box, too. I remember thinking it was fun when I was a kid to go downstairs in the basement and unscrew a bad fuse and put a new one in. My mother had things updated to a breaker box in '97.

We still have those fuses...

Ours were not like those. Ours were flatter, and were ceramic of some sort, with thick glass on top.
The mind is a weird and mysterious place
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Message 1902588 - Posted: 23 Nov 2017, 20:24:47 UTC - in response to Message 1902587.  

When we had our new kitchen installed the electrician firstly looked at our old fuse box which was a ceramic re-wirable one from the 1950's

Yep, this house had that type of box, too. I remember thinking it was fun when I was a kid to go downstairs in the basement and unscrew a bad fuse and put a new one in. My mother had things updated to a breaker box in '97.

We still have those fuses...

Ours were not like those. Ours were flatter, and were ceramic of some sort, with thick glass on top.

In the US, those were edison base screw in fuses. As opposed to the ceramic 'milk bottle' type in europe.
"Time is simply the mechanism that keeps everything from happening all at once."

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Message 1902589 - Posted: 23 Nov 2017, 20:26:51 UTC - in response to Message 1902584.  

At least I don't have knob and tube wiring, and I hope no one else does anymore.

When I did electrical work with a licensed master electrician, we did both new and remodel work.
We had at least 2 remodel jobs while I was working for him that we found knob and tube wiring in the attic.
And it was LIVE!!! Talk about scary stuff. Most of the insulation was gone or just hanging from the wires.
"Time is simply the mechanism that keeps everything from happening all at once."

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Message 1902591 - Posted: 23 Nov 2017, 20:28:41 UTC - in response to Message 1902588.  

When we had our new kitchen installed the electrician firstly looked at our old fuse box which was a ceramic re-wirable one from the 1950's

Yep, this house had that type of box, too. I remember thinking it was fun when I was a kid to go downstairs in the basement and unscrew a bad fuse and put a new one in. My mother had things updated to a breaker box in '97.

We still have those fuses...

Ours were not like those. Ours were flatter, and were ceramic of some sort, with thick glass on top.

In the US, those were edison base screw in fuses. As opposed to the ceramic 'milk bottle' type in europe.

Thanks, Mark. I figured you would know! :~)
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Message 1902594 - Posted: 23 Nov 2017, 20:54:33 UTC - in response to Message 1902587.  
Last modified: 23 Nov 2017, 21:00:23 UTC

When we had our new kitchen installed the electrician firstly looked at our old fuse box which was a ceramic re-wirable one from the 1950's

Yep, this house had that type of box, too. I remember thinking it was fun when I was a kid to go downstairs in the basement and unscrew a bad fuse and put a new one in. My mother had things updated to a breaker box in '97.

We still have those fuses...

Ours were not like those. Ours were flatter, and were ceramic of some sort, with thick glass on top.

You speak in past tense.
Here we live in the past.
And the fuses are here still ceramic.
The glass is on the top of the holder that you screw into the breaker box .
When a fuse breaks the colored tip on the fuse falls down so you can see what fuse to change.
If it works why fix it:)
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