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janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 |
PM orders tower block fire inquiry Theresa. The inquiry is already underway! |
Richard Haselgrove Send message Joined: 4 Jul 99 Posts: 14679 Credit: 200,643,578 RAC: 874 |
That the building only had one stairwell surprises me.That's what the residents are saying, and that's what the floorplan printed by the Daily Telegraph is showing. Civvy street regs from 1974? I was thinking that this one was big enough, bad enough, and visible enough to be taken seriously - and I think the full public enquiry proves that there's no carpet big enough to brush it under. Might not have happened if the fire occurred in a small northern city, alas. Edit - working off that Telegraph plan as if it were to scale, and assuming that the floor areas are accurate, I make that staircase less than a metre wide - even less, if you take handrails etc. into account. 500 people (including elderly and disabled), 24 floors, at night, without emergency lighting? No way. |
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 |
I saw that many muslims are tenants. It's now Ramadan and they only cook and eat at nights. It could be that someone forgot something on a stove that caught fire. Not so many months ago that happened where I live. A woman trying to extinguish a fire from burning oil. She added water. BOOM! The fire brigade was here before I even noticed any smoke or anything! |
W-K 666 Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19398 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67 |
That the building only had one stairwell surprises me.That's what the residents are saying, and that's what the floorplan printed by the Daily Telegraph is showing. Civvy street regs from 1974? Interesting piece in the FT London tower block’s refurbishment raises fire safety questions The concrete council housing towers of the 1960s and 1970s are often derided as inherently unsafe, and there have been a number of tragedies associated with them. But unlike, for instance, the cheap, system-built Ronan Point Tower that collapsed in 1968, Grenfell Tower was a substantial structure, using external concrete columns and in situ cast concrete. I found this while reminding myself of the T Dan Smith/John Poulson affair at about the same time in the early 70's Poulson designed some buildings in Catterick Garrison which were a fire hazard and had been retro-fitted with very loud industrial fire alarms. To stay inside when they went off was a quick trip to hearing problems. |
anniet Send message Joined: 2 Feb 14 Posts: 7105 Credit: 1,577,368 RAC: 75 |
My first home in the east end was on the 18th floor of a tower block overlooking Victoria Park. We were there during the big storm we were told wasn't coming and it was both scary and exhilarating to experience. The building had two wide stairwells, not very pleasant to use with a newborn baby daughter in tow, but more reliable than the lifts. One served even numbered floors, the other odd. It was eventually demolished rather than refurbished. Two other identically built blocks on the estate were done up though. I doubt they pose the kind of risk to tenants that we saw unfold yesterday. |
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 |
According to first-person reports, none of the residents appears to have heard fire alarms during Wednesday’s blaze. We have fire alarms here as well. It can be very difficult to hear them. Especially if you are sleeping. And what to do if you hear them? Stay inside says the fire brigade! |
anniet Send message Joined: 2 Feb 14 Posts: 7105 Credit: 1,577,368 RAC: 75 |
David Lammy (think I have that right) a labour MP is calling for a criminal investigation, and I have to say, I agree. |
W-K 666 Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19398 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67 |
Trellick Tower a few hundred yards away and completed in 1972, has a separate service tower. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trellick_Tower |
Richard Haselgrove Send message Joined: 4 Jul 99 Posts: 14679 Credit: 200,643,578 RAC: 874 |
Today's Guardian (business pages) has this: The Duke of Westminster’s property group is to build 1,500 rental homes in south-east London, one of the capital’s biggest “build to rent†developments.We've already forgotten that the cladding at Grenfell was paid for by the builders of a new 'Academy' school nearby, as compensation to the residents for disruption because of the school building work. Edited to add link to full guardian article. |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 31006 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
From reading the description of the building, single staircase, no sprinklers, kindling cladding, no fire alarms, I'd say the people who wrote the building and safety codes should be put on a top story of a similar building and have it torched while they are asleep. |
KWSN - MajorKong Send message Joined: 5 Jan 00 Posts: 2892 Credit: 1,499,890 RAC: 0 |
A long chain of contractual relationships link the local authority owners of Grenfell Tower to the manufacturers of the cladding panel on the outside of the building. I am surprised you are not making hay over Celotex being a US corporation. The UK one was a subsidiary of the US corporation. In the late 1970s, I toured one of their factories/research centers in Arkansas, and saw the PIR panels being made. Good stuff. VERY good R-value for its thickness. https://youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE #Texit Don't blame me, I voted for Johnson(L) in 2016. Truth is dangerous... especially when it challenges those in power. |
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 |
David Lammy (think I have that right) a labour MP is calling for a criminal investigation, and I have to say, I agree. There will never be any convictions. It will take years to indict anyone. There's so many companies involved in this tragedy and they will blame each other. Meanwhile Business As Usually :( |
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 |
I am surprised you are not making hay over Celotex being a US corporation. The UK one was a subsidiary of the US corporation. Why are you surprised? Who cares from where a corporation comes from? It's a global economy today. |
KWSN - MajorKong Send message Joined: 5 Jan 00 Posts: 2892 Credit: 1,499,890 RAC: 0 |
From reading the description of the building, single staircase, no sprinklers, kindling cladding, no fire alarms, I'd say the people who wrote the building and safety codes should be put on a top story of a similar building and have it torched while they are asleep. Sounds like a death-trap to me. *IF* this building met 'code' (and from the sound of it, I highly doubt it did), I would agree with your proposed penalty. https://youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE #Texit Don't blame me, I voted for Johnson(L) in 2016. Truth is dangerous... especially when it challenges those in power. |
KWSN - MajorKong Send message Joined: 5 Jan 00 Posts: 2892 Credit: 1,499,890 RAC: 0 |
I am surprised you are not making hay over Celotex being a US corporation. The UK one was a subsidiary of the US corporation. Well, with all of the USA bashing going on world-wide, I am surprised. https://youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE #Texit Don't blame me, I voted for Johnson(L) in 2016. Truth is dangerous... especially when it challenges those in power. |
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 |
I am surprised you are not making hay over Celotex being a US corporation. The UK one was a subsidiary of the US corporation. For all I know it's only the present US "government" that upset us here in Europe. Sometimes amuse us:) |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24911 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
If the Hackney side of the park then it could've been Gascoyne Estate or Trowbridge Estate. The tower blocks on Trowbridge got demolished in 1985 though. There were Tower blocks on the Old Ford side of the park but not sure if they have a view of the park. From what I can recall of those days, the tower blocks on Gascoyne had stairway lighting. |
anniet Send message Joined: 2 Feb 14 Posts: 7105 Credit: 1,577,368 RAC: 75 |
If the Hackney side of the park then it could've been Gascoyne Estate or Trowbridge Estate. The tower blocks on Trowbridge got demolished in 1985 though. There were Tower blocks on the Old Ford side of the park but not sure if they have a view of the park. Old Ford is spot on, Sirius. edit: I've offered my front room (British for lounge) to anyone desperate enough to want to have a temporary roof over their head that is also mine. I'm hoping it'll help me manage my third party anger |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 31006 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
From reading the description of the building, single staircase, no sprinklers, kindling cladding, no fire alarms, I'd say the people who wrote the building and safety codes should be put on a top story of a similar building and have it torched while they are asleep. Saw a report on BBC where the report was fire/building people overseas were gobsmacked at what the codes allowed. I can see mandatory retrofits coming or occupancy permits revoked. I suspect in more than a few cases buildings will have to come down. Might be a good time to be in construction on the Island. |
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 |
In a hearing about cuts in Fire Department, Boris Johnson former Mayor of London, loses patience, asking Labor politicians Andrew Dismore to get stuffed. Johnson apologizes directly, but the clip is seen as an example of arrogance among the politicians driven by cuts in the London Fire Department. Criticism has also been directed against both Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn trying picking political points. |
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