My dad used to keep a wooden carpentry mallet under the bed!

My mother always kept a Louisville Slugger under her bed.

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The mind is a weird and mysterious place

I'm SO glad my mother has never had a gun, or a mallet for that matter. She's a mean enough shot with a full bedpan :/ I'd be more than a little concerned about her memory of who I or anyone else in the house was - failing - at the same time as she got total recall as to weaponry ownership and where it was stashed :\

So happy to hear we won't be receiving postcards from Parkhurst or Albany, Bernie ;)

edit: I was thinking of Spitty yesterday :( I'd thought of dropping you a PM with a hug, but got distracted by other stuff unfortunately.

Could you ensure an orderly stampede for the exits people if that is where you're likely to head? *jaded blink* It's just I'm here to have a random chat about psychotic depression and...

... charming ...

every time...

*reinflate nose*

...it's a bit long.

The chat I mean. Not my nose. Not now it has a boot print or ten in it anyway

*sniff ... pedantic mode*


As I was saying, I've never suffered from it myself but was, for awhile, collateral damage to the condition in someone else. Fortunately, as they say - love can conquer everything - but it is far from a picnic getting there, and getting there at all was not borne out as possible in any of the statistics available at the time. Perhaps that has changed with improvements in medication, but it is such an unpleasant thing to encounter from both sides of the condition, that professionals in the field then, were of the view that there was no way back for relationships torn apart by it. Obviously, each sufferer has different ways of dealing with their problem, but what is relatively common if not entirely standard to all is an utter failure to recognise the symptoms for themselves without extremely intrusive medical intervention in their lives. Some never truly do, despite it. All will be at risk of lapsing into the same pattern of behaviour if the fuel they've selected to "confirm they were right all along" that feeds their cycles of delusions/ paranoia gets triggered. It can often be a very slow fuse, that once lit - allows the sufferer to manipulate others into acquiescing to their view rather than challenging it (either for the sake of peace, or even fear of the consequences should they not). This is a mistake. Do NOT make it. If you think this person is already a threat to your peace of mind, and they're already getting some small success at controlling and modifying your behaviour - then it won't be too long before you'll realise that there is a lot more of that and potentially worse still to come.

Attempts to isolate their victim/s from support, and inoculate themselves against reality will invariably involve inordinate efforts, schemes and "traps" to reinforce the sufferers view that it is they who are the victim rather than the perpetrator of the destructive cycle they are on. That it is they who have all their faculties and principles ship-shape and correct etc, etc when in fact they do not and are potentially very unwell indeed :( But perhaps one of the most difficult aspects to the condition is that the sufferer is unshakeable in their belief that what is going on in their head is absolute fact. That when they judge they are always right and there is evidence that certain personality traits, might perhaps predispose them to already having some of the tools in their arsenal when interacting with others that bolsters their view of themselves as being brighter, or better or somehow more upstanding and principled and just plain - right - more often than anyone else can possibly be. But that is a grey and complex area best not looked too deeply into here :)


When medical intervention finally occurs, if it does, things can have got so bad and been going down that route for so long that police could be the first to be involved, then begged to take the "abuser" to hospital and not a cell. Why? Because this is not the person the victim/s used to know; Because the person the sufferer has concluded their victim is, isn't real outside of the former's own head; And the things they may have imparted to others about them - border on falsity or even fantasy, no matter how convincing they might have been when reporting to others and how much "substantiating evidence" might have been supplied. The public face displayed to friends on the outside of this unhealthy state of affairs, is in stark contrast to the one that's exposed behind closed doors and away from the scrutiny of others. - but - as the hapless affected lurch (unknown to others) towards the day of reckoning - the façade the sufferer has managed to keep up begins to slip, and as it does accusations become wilder and blame gets more widely externalised either onto more and more shoulders as people become wiser to what's been going on, or more and more onto one set of shoulders - and none of those shoulders are theirs. That's the crucial difference between this form of depression and most others.

Imagine if you will someone who is depressed - who knows they're depressed - for any and all reasons it's possible to be depressed about in this mad world we live in. Imagine some of these people get a break from additional knocks in their lives and somehow manage to "pull themselves together" without help. Then imagine some don't get the breaks that would help them do so, so seek help from their local medical practitioner sooner than others, and that those others who don't - perhaps self-medicate with whatever works "best" for them until eventually they too seek the same assistance.

However we get there - and however long it takes - should be a matter for congratulations from others and immense pride in ourselves ... not shame, victimisation, and "cause" for harassment :[

Depression is a very difficult thing to live with, both for those that are suffering from it, and those who love them :( But when someone knows they are down and can admit it to themselves, and at least has an interest in finding out why this time "pulling themselves together" is suddenly so much harder than it ever might have been before, and can then admit that they need help - if only so that those around them don't get forever dragged down with them - that is a testament to strength - not weakness . It is one of the hardest things to do - asking for a parachute to help slow your descent deeper and deeper into the pit you've fallen into, and something to hold onto while you begin the arduous climb back out.

Despite all the progress we've made as a species in matters medical - the stigma attached to depression is still there. And it shouldn't be - because that in itself can feed into much more intransigent mental health problems - such as the one I'm chatting about here - where denial of one's own responsibility in spreading the misery to others is so malignant that their victims' consequent risk of depression becomes an extra target for which to kick at them for - further bolstering the distorted view the psychotic depressive sufferer has of their own "superior strengths". Unchecked/untreated, ultimately our sufferer will be left out on a limb blaming everyone else and congratulating themselves for coming to their senses at "cutting these people out of their life". Except they don't . Not really - and that's where things can get very unpleasant indeed - because our sufferer will seek strangers to recruit to their "crusade for justice" to whom they will relay distortions, half-truths and lies that besmirch and character assassinate those who dared to stand in their path with a healthier view of reality than their own. Given long enough, these new recruits too - eventually - will get wise and get distant until hopefully - one day our sufferer will get the real help they need and may even find all those tattered battered relationships they wrought such carnage on, might blossom again with more temperance and understanding from both sides of what once came between them :)

Any way - there you are - a précis of a condition that is so unnecessary for anyone to suffer, people. A type of depression that lurks as a shadow in a blindspot. Avoid squaring up to if devastated relationships are your thing, and if you ultimately want medication with much more unpleasant side-effects than anti-depressants will ever inflict on you :(

Luckily I have never suffered from depression, clinical or psychotic

Actually, that's exactly the kind of thing someone with, or on the way to developing it says, Chris ;) They'll even go so far as to say they've never been happier - whilst at the same time finding their lives strewn with traitorous people of enormous inadequacy and unpleasantness - which is one of the reasons why it becomes quite difficult to believe them in the years/months/weeks run-up to a full blown episode. It's hard to think anyone can be happy living a life thinking almost everyone is an enemy . I'd be a mess if it was me. Eyes are my clue to whether one is looming - you know - when medication may have lapsed somewhere between the box and the mouth that's supposed to take them. They look at you - but they don't see you - they see someone else. It's difficult to explain unless you've seen it for yourself in someone you know well. And you'd be stunned at the things they can find to take full blown exception to too...

The tragedy of the condition though - is that it is completely avoidable if only things like pride, upbringing, background stigma, social expectations etc didn't get in the way of our perceptions of ourselves in relation to others.

I'm not sure I've explained that last bit very well :/ And of course - there are people who have never suffered depression. Lucky lot :) as you said yourself, Chris... AND - there are people who really enjoy arguing and throwing their weight around at a cost to others - but that's probably related more to personality type rather than anything else, and they probably would have been like that most of their lives anyway - so no surprises for those who know them.

What makes me weep inside for a sufferer of psychotic depression though - is that their inability to admit that shadow in their blindspot, means that in getting the help they need - they almost have to be systematically broken down into all their component parts by a team of professionals before they can rebuild. Whereas just accepting perhaps a small dose of a pill to rebalance themselves early on "in case they MIGHT need it" would be all that would have been necessary - or would at least be a better start with no need for any further medical intervention. It would avert the messy uncontrolled break up on the rocks of relationships at least, and that has to be worth it I think.

Re my previous post:

There appears to be a desire for me to change a fact about psychotic depression. I'm afraid that is beyond my abilities as a mortal me. People with it don't admit to depression until after receiving treatment for it - if then. That is a fact. That does not mean everyone whose never been depressed - is so afflicted. When the red-x comes - please feel free to take this one with it too. Thank you! :) As Puss in Boots said - this is rarely talked about. Now I see why.

edit: I have someone who will I hope, be coming out of hospital later this week. Because that someone has been so gravely ill - their medication for the condition has not been maintained. Remember when I spoke about no picnics? Well there you have it people :/ Don't anyone worry - I won't be raising this subject again. It clearly has caused some... awkwardness.

No. It's done.

Thinks have taken a difficult turn with my father.

He is accusing one particular Health Care Assistant (HCA) of mistreating him, leaving him for hours in bed, or on top of the bedclothes, saying he can't have breakfast because there isn't time.

When he uses the nurse call button she is very sharp with him. This was all on Sunday when I went. I reported my concerns to the nurse in charge and she said they would try and make sure he understood what was happening.

Dad's vision is not good and he has double hearing aids, which on two occasions (one being Sunday) I have found them both in a container on his table, they seem to have been taken out at night, so I know with certainty he could not have heard what was being said to him since he woke up.

Also there is the problem that he hates the "hospital gowns or pyjamas" . So I brought in two pairs from home and brought two new pairs, this allowed me to wash any soiled ones overnight and return them the next day.

Twice I have found him in hospital gowns when there were clean pairs in his bedside drawer.

Tonight he related more problems with the same HCA and he said that he was going home and that was that, when I tried to explain about the extra help I needed he got quite nasty and accused me of promising to help him and now letting him down. Nothing I could say would calm him down and he said some hurtful things. So I had two choices, as I was not prepared to be subjected to him in this state when I visited, I could either not visit, which I could not do, or take him home. so I told him I would take him home tomorrow, obviously without outside help, which he also doesn't want anyway.

I went to see the nurse in charge and one of the things that came up were personal pyjamas, which they encourage and he said they should always be used in preference to NHS ones. Also I said was he sure all staff were speaking slowly and clearly to dad and making sure he understood. We went back to the ward so he could have a chat with dad and in my absence they had put him to bed, at 7.15, now I am usually there till 8 and they never put him to bed that early. When the nurse in charge asked the HCA why dad was in NHS pyjamas, the HCA said he didn't have his own, when the nurse in charge said there was a pair in his drawer, she then said, he had a gown on so I put these on. So she was admitting not bothering to check. I believe because he has dementia he is being treated as not knowing what is going on, when he can't hear what is being said and questions it, they put it down to dementia and work around him rather than include him.

So I think that possibly they have created a problem by not listening to him, a problem I am ill equipped to deal with but will have to from tomorrow.

Not what I wanted but what else can I do.

I cannot see this ending well.

I believe because he has dementia he is being treated as not knowing what is going on, when he can't hear what is being said and questions it, they put it down to dementia and work around him rather than include him.

So I think that possibly they have created a problem by not listening to him, a problem I am ill equipped to deal with but will have to from tomorrow.

Not what I wanted but what else can I do.

I cannot see this ending well.

I think quality of attitude when it comes to caring for elderly people, with or without cognitive issues, is extremely variable, often - humiliating and utterly frustrating to watch. The number of times I have to ask someone to please talk to my mum and to not worry because I will still be listening, should not be necessary unless she's comatose. It is an extremely difficult job caring for dementia and Alzheimer sufferers, so to do it well and deliver to the best of someone's abilities, it should not be under burdensome time constraints and long patient lists. Only then is it truly possible to see whether someone should be allowed to care for people as vulnerable as they can get, let alone draw a salary for doing so. Even the best of those that would pass the high standard that I think should be a mandatory minimum can have bad days - but this does not sound like it's the case here. I'm so sorry, Bernie :(

You've made the right decision, for him despite knowing this could get very hard for yourself. I am hoping that being home will be enough to at least calm things down a little - at least at first. Keep us posted :)

Bernie, I'm sorry to read these things. I know it's a tough situation, and I truly understand.

As far as depression goes, I know a lot about that, too. If it's a lifetime illness, it's hard to self-diagnosis it because that state of mind is "normal", even though the symptoms may be "abnormal" for others. It's hard for a person who has been depressed all his life to understand how some people are so "up" all the time. I know people who really are happy all the time, and they are blessed with an abundance of serotonin and dopamine firing constantly across their synapses, but I'm not one of 'em.

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The mind is a weird and mysterious place

What's done?

I only read as far as the second sentence. Sorry if it was unclear :/
I have read all of it now though :)

@Gordon

I think carrying a sadness with us from when we're young can make that so. Especially a life changing one. I think it's why, to me, I feel more in tune with winter as a season, than any of the others - despite how lovely spring and summer are. :) Autumn/Fall comes in a close second for me - it holds the warm memories of the two seasons before it, sort of cherished in a glow :) That probably sounds very strange, but I don't care. No I don't :) winter is a time of reflection and time standing almost still. It holds such promise in the bare branches of trees against skies and whatnot. A sort of tranquil pause - for me anyway. I know it's often the reverse for many.

I'm a Fall/Winter person, too. :~)

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The mind is a weird and mysterious place

But to get to the stage where every day is a chore to be got through and there is not a bright thing to be seen anywhere, or even any reason to carry on, must be a terrifying experience.

Quite the opposite, you're emotionally just a blank slate. When you do get treatment and recover, looking back to "then" can be a bit disturbing, but necessary.

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Member of the People Encouraging Niceness In Society club.

I think that dementia must rank among the most difficult of medical conditions both for the sufferer and the carer.

I would say my dad is with it about 25% of the time now, but during that 25% he is aware that he can no longer think properly, and no longer communicate properly.

He gets annoyed and frustrated when he cannot ask me for something simple, at times the anger becomes directed at me.

I know he cannot help it but it is equally frustrating for me to see him struggling to get a few words out and usually failing.

Bringing him home form the hospital early, I had expected problems with his incontinence, what I wasn't prepared for is him forgetting where the bathroom was, where his bedroom was and how to get dressed.

I was woken at 6 am today by him opening my bedroom door to try and find the bathroom, but missing the actual one which I had left wide open.

He is still going to receive home care visits as soon as they can be arranged, but not sure how effective they will be.

Time will tell.

I think that dementia must rank among the most difficult of medical conditions both for the sufferer and the carer.

It's very hard.

Everybody copes in their own way, but for me and my mother, the best thing for us was to be home together.

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The mind is a weird and mysterious place

I'm beginning to think mental deterioration slip-sliding us towards dementia or Alzheimer's might be related to how many pockets we've had to search through in our lives to find something we knew we thought we knew we had but now know we can't find and think we must have lost somehow or left behind there in the first place we looked for it after we've turned everything out and upside down to find we'd had it all the time - whether it be a handbag or jacket/trouser combination. Where I went wrong, was in accepting and using a handbag my mother bought me some years ago. It had I thought, eighteen separate "areas" to search through. Now there are a couple of holes in the lining, there are at least 23, if not more.

*frost blink at Chris* My handbags are never voluminous. Those ... *all-knowing sniff* catch on railings and doorhandles and sweep things off shelves which is why I give them a wider berth than I'd even need with one hanging off me.

And my other half has never found anything I've misplaced, whether in my handbag or not. How can he when his method involves staring helplessly with unfocused eyes at the search site in the hope the missing item will approach him in a bright luminous glow... which it never does?
;)

edit: apologies for derailing my thread...

;)

Female handbags :)
A problem always rise when a male caretaker have to examine whats in it.
Hearing from the bed who wonders "Are you stupid or what?"

Well this is not quite what I expected.

Over the last 2 days dad has been managing more and more. Yesterday he went to the toilet on his own and wasn't incontinent at all. Today so far the same.

He seems much more aware of things and I would say he is back to the level he was prior to going into hospital.

With this in mind, I will see how the rest of today goes but at his present level I am doing no more for him than before he went in.

So I will probably be cancelling the home care as it would be a wast of time and money.

Very good news, Bernie.

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The mind is a weird and mysterious place

Very good news, Bernie.

I was just about to say the same thing :) Along with a yay!