Transportation Safety 3

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Message 2087431 - Posted: 4 Nov 2021, 8:56:15 UTC - in response to Message 2087357.  

The first very brief official report
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/collision-between-passenger-trains-at-salisbury-tunnel-junction?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=govuk-notifications&utm_source=0656e38e-e6d2-4575-80cb-87c151a0d095&utm_content=daily

This document outlines what happened and what the RAIB will be looking at during their investigation.
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Message 2087446 - Posted: 4 Nov 2021, 16:08:47 UTC - in response to Message 2087431.  
Last modified: 4 Nov 2021, 16:11:31 UTC

Wow! The poor sod was braking but skidded through TWO signals!!

... And that junction has the potential for a head-on collision.


Looks like a redesign is needed somewhere for that one... (And elsewhere?)

... Including looking at the timetabling if excessive speed is being required...


Stay safe folks...
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Message 2087448 - Posted: 4 Nov 2021, 16:38:17 UTC - in response to Message 2087446.  

Just about every low/medium speed junction in the UK (and indeed in the rest of the world) has at least one potential conflicting move. Redesigning such junctions would be a grade one headache, and the doing the actual work would be at the very least "F" on the expensive job scale.
Speed limits are (in the UK) set by a pretty stringent set of rules, determined by signal spacing, gradients and sight lines. Timetables are developed using these speeds, not the other way round. There have been some quite dramatic arguments over the years between the signalling community and the operators when the operator wants to increase the speed at a point on the network without the required signalling and other infrastructure changes.
There are a few other things that need to be looked at, such as how well the second unit was maintained, and to what standard was it being maintained. The units involved have a very limited amount of sand available and there are some "rather strange" rules around where, when and how sand is applied (both in terms of track layout and vehicle layout), did any of these contribute to the unit sliding in the way it did. (I suspect that one or two people in the rail industry may have their pet hobby horses challenged.)
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Message 2087454 - Posted: 4 Nov 2021, 19:32:38 UTC

Driver who led CHP on chase through LA, Ventura Counties in stolen big rig surrenders in Santa Ana
After more than 10 hours that included a dramatic chase and a standoff that halted traffic, the driver of a stolen big rig finally surrendered to authorities Thursday morning.

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Message 2087467 - Posted: 4 Nov 2021, 23:16:12 UTC - in response to Message 2087431.  
Last modified: 4 Nov 2021, 23:22:16 UTC

The first very brief official report
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/collision-between-passenger-trains-at-salisbury-tunnel-junction?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=govuk-notifications&utm_source=0656e38e-e6d2-4575-80cb-87c151a0d095&utm_content=daily

This document outlines what happened and what the RAIB will be looking at during their investigation.
Thanks for that.

From that initial report, the second train driver applied brakes at the initial caution signal. 12 seconds later he applied emergency braking. While already under the driver initiated emergency braking another emergency brake demand was made by the train protection and warning system (TPWS) ( i suspect this occurred once the train went through the red signal).
The interesting point- the wheels were sliding when the driver applied service brakes at the caution signal. With little to no adhesion with just normal braking, there was no chance of the second train stopping in time, even if emergency braking was started sooner.
From the looks of that initial report, the signals were working for the second train, the driver did everything by the book, but he had no chance of stopping due to condition of the track.


My reading of the report is that the first train didn't derail- it was actually using the points to enter the main line when the second train ran in to it, and derailed both. So the first train was probably running late (unlikely the second was early) and if the second train had been able to stop normally the only issue would have been passengers arriving at their stops later than the timetable indicated.
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Message 2087489 - Posted: 5 Nov 2021, 9:34:44 UTC - in response to Message 2087467.  
Last modified: 5 Nov 2021, 9:35:10 UTC

Witnesses on the first train, not referred to in this initial report, said that the first train lurched to a stand a couple of minutes before the second one arrived on the scene. As you say, the next report (interim) and the final one will be a much bigger read.
In my experience of reading these reports in sequence the initial report is very thin of witness evidence, much of which isn't normally available to the RAIB in the early days. Subsequent iterations go more into witness evidence, CCTV signalling records and so on, all of which has to be correlated to get an accurate timeline of events. In this case I would expect .statements to be taken from the passengers on both trains (only a couple of dozen), and the train crews & signallers (who will have a "union man" with them, who is normally a very experienced driver or signaller as appropriate).
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Message 2088156 - Posted: 15 Nov 2021, 17:58:32 UTC

Been watching many military documentaries on Youtube over the past few years as well as some music videos of songs from the past.
Was surprised to see a rash of programs in the recommended list & watched many of them.
Mainly Police Interceptors/Motorway Cops.
The excuses heard when caught are hilarious at times but they all have a common denominator - paltry sentences.
Sad
Until the punishment hits where it really hurts, it will not stop.
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Message 2088208 - Posted: 16 Nov 2021, 8:40:40 UTC

Some people have more money than commonsense.

Man cut free after crashing luxury Ferrari in St Peters, Sydney.

He'll be short of a few dollars now.

Cheers.
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Message 2088220 - Posted: 16 Nov 2021, 14:12:07 UTC

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Message 2088225 - Posted: 16 Nov 2021, 14:43:10 UTC - in response to Message 2088220.  

...and installed another radiator

Two jobs at once, all done in a few seconds, what a smashing fellow he is ;-)
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Message 2088230 - Posted: 16 Nov 2021, 16:01:08 UTC - in response to Message 2088225.  

ROFLMAO.
Nice extraction.
Hope all parties are insured...
...otherwise...
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Message 2088239 - Posted: 16 Nov 2021, 20:06:48 UTC

Most bashed bridges list has been released by Network Rail https://www.aol.co.uk/news/most-bashed-rail-bridges-revealed-095146586.html
Old enough to know better(but)still young enough not to care
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Message 2088249 - Posted: 16 Nov 2021, 22:29:55 UTC - in response to Message 2088239.  

LOL. Know 1,3,4,6 & 8 on that list.
However the 2nd photo in that report is I'm pretty sure, the junction of Coddenham Road/Lion Lane.
Problem is the photo shows it as 2.3m (7'6") when it is 2.5m(8'0") & mentioned on an earlier transport thread.
As for bridges, Montague St Bridge in Melbourne is a good one. Check it out on Youtube.
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Message 2088407 - Posted: 18 Nov 2021, 20:23:42 UTC

Some people can be very lucky.

Woman 'miraculously' survives after car was crushed from behind by semitruck.

A woman in Washington is recovering after walking away with only "minor injuries“ from a horrific collision Tuesday morning.

The unidentified woman was traveling on Interstate 5 near Mount Vernon, Washington when a tractor-trailer smashed into her car from behind and came to a stop atop it.

A state trooper discussed the incident on Twitter, writing that he had never seen anything like it.

"There's really not a word to describe this collision," Washington State Patrol Trooper Rocky Oliphant tweeted, along with pictures of the crash, which took place on the Skagit River Bridge. "Miraculously believed to be minor injuries. The car was struck from behind, folded the car in half, and semi came to rest on top of the car. In my 14 year career, I have never seen anything like it." ....
Cheers.
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Message 2088417 - Posted: 18 Nov 2021, 22:17:07 UTC - in response to Message 2088407.  

Some people can be very lucky.
How about amazingly lucky?
No point her ever buying a lottery ticket again, she's used up all of her remaining good luck just surviving that, let alone being able to walk away from it.
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Message 2088437 - Posted: 19 Nov 2021, 10:13:27 UTC

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Message 2088445 - Posted: 19 Nov 2021, 12:02:38 UTC - in response to Message 2088437.  

I miss read the headline as "Driver to be banned for.....".
Having witnessed a fatal crash in which the driver was talking on his phone not watching the road one can imagine my thoughts on this subject.
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Message 2088450 - Posted: 19 Nov 2021, 13:10:06 UTC

This is terrible in germany too.
I would never pick up my phone whilst driving.
My new car has Android car but i seldom connect it.
Only on long distance drives.


With each crime and every kindness we birth our future.
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Message 2088488 - Posted: 19 Nov 2021, 22:54:16 UTC - in response to Message 2088437.  

Better late than never
I'm surprised that their use isn't illegal there already.
Here in Australia it varies by state, but basically unless it's in a cradle you can't use it- even when stopped on the side of a road (although i'm not aware of anyone being prosecuted for that. It's not unusual to see cars pulling over to the side of the road & someone on their phone when you go past them).
But if you're using it while stopped in traffic- you're nicked. It also applies to laptops, tablets, DVD/media players & smart watches.

Personally i don't think they should be allowed to be used even hands free- i don't know what it is about phones but people seem to give all their attention to the phone conversation and not what they should b concentrating on- driving.


Having use a few new cars recently i have to say i hate with a passion these new entertainment/navigation systems- where instead of having a button for each major function you've got a couple of buttons (if that) to select all the hundreds (thousands?) of possible functions, or even worse a touch screen that still uses a few touch points to select, select, select, select, select then eventually adjust what you're after.
Unless they're fully voice controller i think they're actually worse than phones (unless people are texting, the most moronic thing to do while driving).
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Message 2088490 - Posted: 19 Nov 2021, 23:06:57 UTC - in response to Message 2088488.  

Having use a few new cars recently i have to say i hate with a passion these new entertainment/navigation systems- where instead of having a button for each major function you've got a couple of buttons (if that) to select all the hundreds (thousands?) of possible functions, or even worse a touch screen that still uses a few touch points to select, select, select, select, select then eventually adjust what you're after.
Unless they're fully voice controller i think they're actually worse than phones (unless people are texting, the most moronic thing to do while driving).
Tested until battery died
Just look at all the electrics in those. WTH do you switch off that you don't use?
& can you?
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