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Je suis Varoufakis :)
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Julie Send message Joined: 28 Oct 09 Posts: 34053 Credit: 18,883,157 RAC: 18 |
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Julie Send message Joined: 28 Oct 09 Posts: 34053 Credit: 18,883,157 RAC: 18 |
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shizaru Send message Joined: 14 Jun 04 Posts: 1130 Credit: 1,967,904 RAC: 0 |
Where's George Bailey when you need him!!? --- I see my 3 favorite psychos, Juncker, Schäuble, and Dijsselbloem are more than ever trying to tick as many boxes as humanly possible on the clinical psychopathy checklist. Boy have THEY been on a role these past few weeks! Even resorting to 'bait & switch' tactics:( How low can you go? --- I wonder what Helmut Kohl would think of this mess? Oh, wait! I do: "Die macht mir mein Europa kaputt." Well Mr. Kohl, maybe you shoulda taught Mr. Schäuble a thing or two more than just how to stuff arms-dealer-cash in a suitcase (I guess Schäuble couldn't fit that many Deutschmarks in a fakelaki). --- At least across the Atlantic the Supreme Court has shown common sense is not only alive and well but can prevail too! Quite proud of my American roots these days :) --- I'll leave you with some more common sense from across the pond: http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/06/25/breaking-greece/ --- Je suis Varoufakis :) |
Мишель Send message Joined: 26 Nov 13 Posts: 3073 Credit: 87,868 RAC: 0 |
I see my 3 favorite psychos, Juncker, Schäuble, and Dijsselbloem are more than ever trying to tick as many boxes as humanly possible on the clinical psychopathy checklist. Boy have THEY been on a role these past few weeks! Even resorting to 'bait & switch' tactics:( How low can you go? This is as much on Greece as it is on those three (well four, I think you forgot Lagarde). I mean seriously, calling a referendum and advising people to say no about it, that is just asking for the whole thing to go completely wrong. |
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 |
What if Greece can not pay their loans on Tuesday? The country can come to abandon the euro, but not the EU, and return to the drachma currency, which, however, may lose 50-70 percent of the current value. Carl Michael von Quitzow, Professor of European Law at Lund University, does not believe that Greece will leave the EU on Tuesday, as the country should pay 14 billion to the International Monetary Fund (IMF). He is however convinced that the country is forced to abandon the euro and reintroduce the drachma currency after the referendum on 5 July. - You have to implement what EU ministers have said, whether you like it or not. Otherwise, wait chaos. They have no money and no one wants to invest anything, he says, and continues: - The vote is a joke. The government says no and when ministers say no, it is the result. Claes Hemberg, an economist at Avanza Bank, says there are plans to create a "Greek euro" if the country is forced to leave the euro. - They will make a hole in the middle of all Greek banknotes to highlight that there is a common euros. It will lose 50 to 70 percent of the value. Alas Hellas. |
qbit Send message Joined: 19 Sep 04 Posts: 630 Credit: 6,868,528 RAC: 0 |
I was indeed surprised yesterday as I don't understand why and how they wanna keep Greece in the euro zone. The country will run out of money soon and then what? |
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 |
Perhaps Europe should rethink the EU. All countries in the EU wonder what is happening. Separatist movements in Scotland, Katalonien and other regions. Denmark are starting to object the EU. Norway is not an EU member and probably will not be. The further you live from Brussels the more likely is that you don't want to be part of the EU. Many countries doesn't like that Germany have so much Power. |
Мишель Send message Joined: 26 Nov 13 Posts: 3073 Credit: 87,868 RAC: 0 |
Perhaps the EU is fundamentally flawed. The EU is flawed by design, if you can call it flawed. And it is only really flawed if you compare it to the traditional Nation State. The US tried its confederation and that did not work out, so they changed the whole thing and went for something that is more like a traditional Nation State. The EU can't do that because the people calling the shots are themselves Nation States, many of them over a thousand year old. Turning the EU into an actual Federation would be unacceptable to all member states and would therefor never happen. |
shizaru Send message Joined: 14 Jun 04 Posts: 1130 Credit: 1,967,904 RAC: 0 |
Thank you Clyde, I've been waiting for someone to make that connection and bring it up on their own. Europe is totally reenacting the Articles of Confederation with no Annapolis convention in sight (not to mention the resulting Philadelphia Convention). Kohl and Mitterrand had hoped that a European 'Philadelphia' convention would happen organically when and if the EU hit the first sign of trouble. They must have assumed there'd always be a Madison within the core ranks of the EU and I can't really blame them, I guess. That's how I remember the whole idea of the EU being sold back in the 90s and I'm guessing that's what convinced the majority of people (not politicians) of each member state. But instead of a Hamilton or a Madison we've got 2 psychotic crooks (and their puppet) calling the shots. Or to put it another way my friends in the UK can understand, I've been waiting over 7 years for a Churchill or even a Churchill-style speech from someone/anyone in Europe but nooooo... Instead we get a bunch of outdated and overused neocon scare tactics which unfortunately have been very effective. Just look at Finland. PS I owe Chris a few details on the Greek shipping industry and Michiel a Lagarde who no, I don't think is psycho. Lagarde and Draghi have shown many signs of common sense so far and I think I may have mentioned that in an earlier post. Anyway, that's all for today :) |
Мишель Send message Joined: 26 Nov 13 Posts: 3073 Credit: 87,868 RAC: 0 |
PS I owe Chris a few details on the Greek shipping industry and Michiel a Lagarde who no, I don't think is psycho. Lagarde and Draghi have shown many signs of common sense so far and I think I may have mentioned that in an earlier post. Anyway, that's all for today :) How so? It was Lagarde who blew up the almost deal of last week by saying the Greek government couldn't raise taxes but should instead should just cut more. And while you can call Dijsselbloem and Schauble 'psychos' do keep in mind that it has been Syriza who is just as much responsible for what is currently going on. If the Greek economy goes bankrupt and is forced out of the Euro, thats on them, not Dijssselbloem or Schauble. Its Tsiperas that walked out on the negotiations and its him that called for the referendum. He is solely responsible for completely destroying any kind of good will or trust in his government. The plans from the IMF and EU may have been bad for the economy, this has long stopped being about the economy. Its politics and Syriza has eiter been to incompetent to handle it or they deliberately caused the whole thing to fail. Either way, the Greek citizens are the victims of this. |
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 |
Greece is depressing the Europeans. The main stock market indexes opened down: London's FTSE by 2.09%, Frankfurt's DAX fell 3.7%, and France's CAC was down 3.9%. Stockholm down 2.2%, Italy 3.4%. Investors fear a Greek default and exit from the euro, if Greece refuses to accept reforms imposed by its international creditors. ◾Banks closed till 6 July ◾Cash withdrawals limited to €60 (£42; $66) a day for this period ◾Cash machine withdrawals with foreign bank cards permitted ◾Pension payments not part of capital controls ◾Banking transactions within Greece allowed http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33307263 |
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 |
A large number of Greeks will not be able to participate in the referendum on Sunday. They can not afford to go home. The wording on the ballot regarding the aid package also faced criticism and accused of being absolutely incomprehensible. "Pure Greek" comments journalist Alexandra Pascalidou:) https://twitter.com/GreekAnalyst/status/615500572398088192/photo/1 - It is a paradox that the government expects people to afford to take a boat home when the ticket costs more is what you can take out of the ATM. They could not even afford to fill up the car, says Alexandra Pascalidou. https://translate.google.se/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dn.se%2Fekonomi%2Fgreklands-rostsedel-rena-grekiskan%2F&edit-text= Alas Hellas. |
shizaru Send message Joined: 14 Jun 04 Posts: 1130 Credit: 1,967,904 RAC: 0 |
OK so let me repeat that when I say "Schauble is a psychopath" I'm not exactly venting, name-calling or mud-slinging. I just believe that a qualified psychiatrist would diagnose him as psychopathic. Which is not a problem on its own but it very much is in this case. See, he'd make a fantastic finance minister if Germany still had the DM. But as the de facto EU paymaster he's absolutely useless. In other words if you were his boss, you'd fire him because he's not at all qualified for the particular task. He's completely uneducated in macro (he's just a taxman) and worse, he's proven time and again that his brain just isn't wired to work that way. Same goes for your ex Minister of Agriculture. And here's a tiny fraction of the reasons why all of the above, if true, matter: Its Tsipras that walked out on the negotiations... As they say on the net, I don't think that word means what you think it means. a) Teammates don't negotiate. So obviously for many members of the EU, its countries are apparently not teammates. b) To add insult to injury, the definition of a negotiation is not being 'told what to do'. That's called giving orders:) c) Can you even call a negotiation a negotiation when one side childishly ignores the key talking point? Would you stay? He is solely responsible for completely destroying any kind of good will or trust in his government. a) you cannot destroy something that was never there b) it'll never be there anyway because a psychopath is incapable of trust and void of any good will. Unfortunately both those qualities (and many many more) are essential in a time of crisis. |
shizaru Send message Joined: 14 Jun 04 Posts: 1130 Credit: 1,967,904 RAC: 0 |
But who was it, who voted these fakelaki system guys and their fakelaki system predecessors into power in the first place? The fakelaki system citizens of Greece of course. All of 'em! /s --- Funny how racist people never know when they are being racist. |
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 |
The Riksbank (Swedish Federal Reserve) cut the repo rate to -0.35%. Yes negative rate! Despite rising inflation and economic activity in Sweden is strengthened we lowered the interest rates. The reason is that the krona has strengthened more than the Bank anticipated at the previous monetary policy meeting in April. The effect on the currency market did not wait, when the cut came very surprisingly. The krona weakened immediately with around ten cents against the euro and the dollar. But the Riksbank also refers to the situation in Greece for its action. |
shizaru Send message Joined: 14 Jun 04 Posts: 1130 Credit: 1,967,904 RAC: 0 |
Funny how racist people never know when they are being racist. Clyde, was that a random thought or a personal reply? Did you get the impression that I'm making this about Left and Right? |
Мишель Send message Joined: 26 Nov 13 Posts: 3073 Credit: 87,868 RAC: 0 |
OK so let me repeat that when I say "Schauble is a psychopath" I'm not exactly venting, name-calling or mud-slinging. I just believe that a qualified psychiatrist would diagnose him as psychopathic. Which is not a problem on its own but it very much is in this case. No that just means that you don't know what a psychopath is. For one, you are most likely confusing psychopath with sociopath. But to be honest, you and I don't know the man well enough to make such judgments. I'll be honest and say that it wouldn't surprise me if he was a sociopath, but thats more because he is successful in today's political environment, which statistically makes it not unlikely. See, he'd make a fantastic finance minister if Germany still had the DM. But as the de facto EU paymaster he's absolutely useless. In other words if you were his boss, you'd fire him because he's not at all qualified for the particular task. He's completely uneducated in macro (he's just a taxman) and worse, he's proven time and again that his brain just isn't wired to work that way. Same goes for your ex Minister of Agriculture. And here's a tiny fraction of the reasons why all of the above, if true, matter: Possibly, but again, this is politics. You don't become the minister of finance because you actually know your economics. Thats just not how politics works in any country. As they say on the net, I don't think that word means what you think it means. Correct, the EU member states are not 'teammates', at least not the kind that doesn't negotiate. The team analogy is a very bad one, because team's are generally led by a teamleader who is ultimately responsible for any final decisions, which is not the case in the EU. Furthermore, a team has a goal or a set of goals all teammembers want to achieve. Goals that are mostly absent within the EU, especially when it comes to politically sensitive matters such as this. b) To add insult to injury, the definition of a negotiation is not being 'told what to do'. That's called giving orders:) That presumes that the EU did not move its position during the negotiations, which is blatantly false. Although it the current narrative set up by the Greek government. In other words, they are lying to you. c) Can you even call a negotiation a negotiation when one side childishly ignores the key talking point? Would you stay? Hehehehe, are you talking about how the Greeks behaved at the negotiation table? a) you cannot destroy something that was never there Oh nonsense. We loaned you billions of euros. You think we would have done that if we had thought that Greece was a lost cause from the start? You think the rest of the EU would have bothered with 5 months of negotiations that didn't go anywhere if they felt that the Greek government was untrustworthy from the start? b) it'll never be there anyway because a psychopath is incapable of trust and void of any good will. Unfortunately both those qualities (and many many more) are essential in a time of crisis. For one, that is not true, both psychopaths and sociopaths can trust other people, nor are they 'void of any goodwill'. Furthermore, that is again just plain nonsense. If we didn't have goodwill and were incapable of trust, we would not have lend Greece any money from the start, nor would we have bothered with these negotiations. Again, what Europe did was not smart from an economic perspective. But again, this is politics, not economics. Its not and it never was about what is technically the best solution, its about what solution is politically attainable. And from a political point of view, Greece is equally responsible for what is about to happen as the EU. |
shizaru Send message Joined: 14 Jun 04 Posts: 1130 Credit: 1,967,904 RAC: 0 |
Michiel, on the one hand you keep displaying clear signs of critical thinking (which I'm always a fan of in anybody) but on the other you keep jumping to romantic conclusions regarding this particular issue (making it almost impossible for me to even begin to respond to a lot of what you are saying). It would take me a full evening of pints (in full monologue mode) to explain all my objections to your last post. I couldn't possibly ever type all that out! But I WILL (quickly) address 2 issues I have a serious problem with. One is personal and the other regards our topic here. Personal: Why is it that every time I attack Jeroen you sometimes translate that into me attacking Holland and other times as if I'm attacking you personally? If it is something I have written please quote it so I can make it clearer. Thread: Where are you getting your info from on this subject? What are your sources? Help me understand where you are coming from so I can better address some of your counterarguments. Because when you say stuff like: We loaned you billions of euros. You think we would have done that if we had thought that Greece was a lost cause from the start? It almost makes me feel like you haven't followed this story at all. (not to mention you are falling in the "us guys vs. you guys" trap again) ----- And guys, please never ever interpret my liking Varoufakis as an intellectual as somehow defending Greece or Syriza. Je suis Varoufakis :) |
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 |
There has been no campaigning as such, the BBC's Chris Morris reports from Athens - just a few chaotic days as supporters and opponents of the governing Syriza party have jostled for position. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33375653 But isn't a "No" vote not to pay debts the same as leaving the EMU? At very least the EU think so. Finland has lent 3.7 Bn Euros to Greece. Thats 670 Euros per capita. Je suis Yanis:) |
Мишель Send message Joined: 26 Nov 13 Posts: 3073 Credit: 87,868 RAC: 0 |
Personal: Wait, where did I make it personal in the last post? Also, you are suggesting that our governments are part of some malicious conspiracy to destroy Greece. That seems a little far fetched. Thread: Local newspapers, the internet. Really, various sources. Which, I know, aren't entirely trust worthy and do follow a certain narrative, of which I am aware. Trust me, if I were to just copy whatever the papers are writing I'd be much more critical of Greece and much less critical about the need for all the cuts and such. Also, perhaps it helps if you consider I come from a political perspective, rather than an economic one. We loaned you billions of euros. You think we would have done that if we had thought that Greece was a lost cause from the start? Well, technically I did loan money to Greece. Who do you think ends up paying for the Dutch contribution to the bailout packages? That is going to end getting paid for by the taxpayer in one way or another. In any case, you did not address my point. If the EU and the Eurozone member states never trusted Greece, why would they sign off on those bailout packages? Wouldn't they have let Greece go bankrupt much sooner? |
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