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David S
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Message 1595030 - Posted: 31 Oct 2014, 18:42:42 UTC - in response to Message 1595009.  

One more generally doffs ones cap as in a mark of respect to others, but it can as a verb mean to generally disrobe. I think Angela may have meant meant divesting?

No. I meant "doff", exactly as I used it. My colleagues, occupational therapists, refer to the donning and the doffing of clothing when they write goals for their patients. For example, after a severe stroke, one might need some therapy and practice in order to learn how to don and to doff one's undergarments using only one hand. (Try it if you think that it would be easy. Brassieres are particularly challenging to don one handed, especially if you are right handed and suddenly forced to use only your left hand.) Similarly, young children with developmental challenges might need therapy and practice to learn how to independently don and doff their shoes. (Thank goodness for Velcro - it has changed lives!!!) The term "doff" does not exclusively refer to caps and I used the term exactly as I intended to use it. When I think of the term "divesting", my mind goes first to things financial, as in the divesting of funds. I probably would not use the verb "divest" to refer to the removal of clothing, unless using the term to refer to a stripper divesting dollar bills while in the process of removing his or her... er... uh... stage clothing.


And Chris, if you wish to question my command of written English, then "payback", I have heard, resembles a female dog, don't you know...

For example you write:
If I was under the influence I don't think I would want to publicly announce it but there you go.

Dear friend, I believe that the above statement called for use of the subjunctive, as in "If I were under the influence..."

I completely agree that your use of doff was correct. However, Chris' suggested use of divest is also correct. In support, I point out that
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/divest actually lists Chris' meaning first and the financial meaning fourth.

May I suggest a Halloween truce on this matter?
David
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Message 1595046 - Posted: 31 Oct 2014, 19:01:30 UTC - in response to Message 1595009.  

I have on occasions, divested "certain items" one handed & left handed at that. Unfortunately, I was never allowed to don them...

...I often wondered why not? :-)
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David S
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Message 1595084 - Posted: 31 Oct 2014, 20:10:43 UTC - in response to Message 1595060.  

May I suggest a Halloween truce on this matter?

Truces are only required when there has been a war or altercation, and in this case there hasn't been, and there is not going to be. In the UK we simply don't generally use the terms "doff" and "don" in everyday language meaning to take off or put on clothes, that tends to be rather 18th Century. But it does now appear that those terms are in use in medical areas in the USA which I for one was not previously aware of, and could hardly be expected to have been.

Truth be told, it is not common usage in the US either, other than (apparently) in the area Angela cited.

In fact, the majority of Americans probably sing "Don we now our gay apparel" every Christmas, perhaps cringing at "gay" or even changing it to "bright" but never giving a moment's thought to what "don" means.
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Message 1595250 - Posted: 31 Oct 2014, 23:54:21 UTC - in response to Message 1595060.  

May I suggest a Halloween truce on this matter?

Truces are only required when there has been a war or altercation, and in this case there hasn't been, and there is not going to be. In the UK we simply don't generally use the terms "doff" and "don" in everyday language meaning to take off or put on clothes, that tends to be rather 18th Century. But it does now appear that those terms are in use in medical areas in the USA which I for one was not previously aware of, and could hardly be expected to have been. Even clever people like me can't be all knowing!!

I was not querying anyone's correct use of the English language, what of course this has highlighted is the continuing difference between American usage of English and the UK usage of English, which has traditionally always been different, and I suspect always will be :-)

In terms of the "under the influence" sentence, it appears that it is all down to indicative or subjunctive mood, and the present or past subjunctive. The subjunctive mood is the most common mood in the if I was/were dilemma, so if I were is more often (though not always) the way to go. I would also comment that



"If I was" (am now) is more present Subjunctive, and "If I were" (had been) is more past subjunctive. At the time I wrote that I was not, therefore I believe that I was technically correct in what I intended to convey. Apparent answer

Now please excuse me while I go and look up my copy of Eric Partridge's Usage & Abusage, I may very well be tempted to come back on this :-)

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Message 1595256 - Posted: 1 Nov 2014, 0:02:40 UTC

Chris you are verging on trolldem.
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Message 1595349 - Posted: 1 Nov 2014, 2:09:52 UTC

well per NASA, you don and doff a spacesuit.
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Message 1595357 - Posted: 1 Nov 2014, 2:12:27 UTC - in response to Message 1595349.  

well per NASA, you don and doff a spacesuit.

Whatta they know? Their rocket just blew up.

(Okay, not their rocket. It was Russian. Don't mention it to Raistmer.)
David
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Message 1595611 - Posted: 1 Nov 2014, 16:04:51 UTC

What's going on? I'm feeling a bit snakes'd. The apostrophe is for Chris.
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Message 1595619 - Posted: 1 Nov 2014, 16:22:15 UTC

Back in the day, I was quite skilled at undoing brassieres with one hand.
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Message 1595713 - Posted: 1 Nov 2014, 21:51:36 UTC

Yeah those clasps are a bit hard to come by these days. ;-)

Cheers.
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