Middle East Timebomb

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Message 1626813 - Posted: 12 Jan 2015, 17:09:27 UTC
Last modified: 12 Jan 2015, 17:11:02 UTC

Saudi fatwa banning snowmen triggers heated debate.
Those who supported the fatwa said that building snowmen was a crude imitation of the West.
http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/saudi-arabia/saudi-fatwa-banning-snowmen-triggers-heated-debate-1.1439821
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Message 1626833 - Posted: 12 Jan 2015, 18:40:19 UTC - in response to Message 1625735.  

Мишель so let's do it your way pull all the troops out now and let ISS establish there state country or wat ever
And what do you think will happen then ....war against Isreal ? Iran ? Lebanon ? Kuwait ? U.A.E ? Jordon ?

It's getting out of hand with this latest attack in France . When one of theses nutters puts a gun to your head or injur's you , you might change your mind


Glenn, besides the writing, also work on the reading. And I am saying that nicely.
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Message 1626834 - Posted: 12 Jan 2015, 18:45:09 UTC - in response to Message 1625853.  

A comment about the Charlie Hebdo terrorists that I found to be unexpected from the leader of the Shi'ite Muslim group Hezbollah ... .


LOL!
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Message 1626835 - Posted: 12 Jan 2015, 18:51:03 UTC - in response to Message 1626216.  

More LOL!

Ok folks, time to calm it down before the thread gets locked.

===>Coming from someone who incites matters as well? Give me a break!

It seems dumbness & education are birds of the same feather, neither knows when to stop getting personal.<===

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Message 1626837 - Posted: 12 Jan 2015, 18:52:31 UTC - in response to Message 1626216.  

Ok folks, time to calm it down before the thread gets locked.

Coming from someone who incites matters as well? Give me a break!

It seems dumbness & education are birds of the same feather, neither knows when to stop getting personal.

Returning to the topic at hand:

It's hypocritical of those who hold sway over the masses a la Murdoch. The problems do not lay at ground level, it is much higher. The judge in the Abu Hamza case stated it nicely...

Have fun in the Supermax Hotel

..."He had used his powerbase at the Finsbury Park Mosque in north London to encourage his followers to train and fight in the cause of jihad."

& therein lies the problem! It is down to those of Islamic faith to kick the extremists out of their mosques rather than vocally condemn incidents which have occurred recently.

Only then, we may see some improvements.


You never even acknowledge the condemnations, anyway, so, you just keep waiting for "only then". Good day to you, sir.
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Message 1626856 - Posted: 12 Jan 2015, 20:31:41 UTC - in response to Message 1626320.  

hehehehe good one Dull , he want's people to feel sorry for him , oh i have Dislexia Blah Blah blah and then calls you a worm .

I may call you Gooba but that is just a friendly way of talking to you and i only use it as you had that as part or your user name . But to refer to you as the worm says a lot about the man .


As one of his MANY other screen names, he used "Darwin's Worm". Many have simply given up trying to change how they address him every 2 weeks or so, which gets to be a longer and longer screen name, and just call him by some screen name he has used before. One was "Dullnando" or something like that. Do you claim it says a lot about me to call him, as many do, "Dull"? If so, how mistaken you are.

Second, if ANYONE screams at me for my earlier post to you, they are also mistaken. Despite discussions about dyslexia and the like, when you get out of Michel's or someone else's posts the exact opposite of what he has said, expect to be called on it. (Plus, don't forget how I publicly and privately asked people to give you a chance to express yourself a few years ago.)
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Message 1626857 - Posted: 12 Jan 2015, 20:34:15 UTC - in response to Message 1626334.  

How about getting back on topic? If you want to get personal, use the PM system.


Message 1626216 - Posted: 10 Jan 2015, 19:12:40 UTC - in response to Message 1626198.


Pot, meet kettle?
Or, is a leaf turning over?
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Message 1626859 - Posted: 12 Jan 2015, 20:39:47 UTC - in response to Message 1626392.  

The internet has become a much more potent tool for recruiting more Jihadists exactly because its so difficult to monitor.

Apparently not PRISM

Meh, as far as I'm aware, its still possible to use encryption services to hide from the NSA. Also, while they seem to be collecting almost every scrap of data found on the internet, that data is useless if there is no way of sifting through the data to find actually suspicious persons. In all likelihood, such mass data collection programs are probably making the intelligence work more difficult. There is an overload of data, 99.99999% of it being irrelevant that you still need to sift through. Its looking for a needle in a haystack.

I guess thats why those programs have not resulted in captured terrorist or foiled terrorist plots.


Shall we begin a lesson on data mining? Oh, wait, people will need a prerequisite amount of math and statistics knowledge.
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Message 1626861 - Posted: 12 Jan 2015, 20:44:13 UTC - in response to Message 1626468.  

Religion and Culture are one in the same in the Middle East. If you don't believe it then ask all of those poor women shrouded under the veil about why they hide themselves from the world and accept de-facto second class status ??


Why, I didn't know the Coptics & Gnostics did that! Wow! You learn something new, every day!

(Or, not.)
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Message 1626862 - Posted: 12 Jan 2015, 20:45:33 UTC - in response to Message 1626469.  

Religion and Culture are one in the same in the Middle East. If you don't believe it then ask all of those poor women shrouded under the veil about why they hide themselves from the world and accept de-facto second class status ??

Especially when their "good book" states this: -
"Respect & Honour your wife" Quran 4:19


Ah, I see you are referring to the "War Scrolls"?
Oh, wait, *everybody* follows the same "good book" over yonder?
Ya larns sumtin new eberryday, eh?

(Or, not.)
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Message 1626898 - Posted: 12 Jan 2015, 22:17:45 UTC - in response to Message 1626837.  

You never even acknowledge the condemnations, anyway, so, you just keep waiting for "only then". Good day to you, sir.

Show me where condemnations actually stop attacks.

Yanks fan the flames

Yanks can't make up their minds
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Message 1626911 - Posted: 12 Jan 2015, 22:42:49 UTC - in response to Message 1626359.  

No.1 - Isreal has been in existence since 1000 BC. The British Mandate for Palestine ceased in 1947 on the recommendation of the UN and the State of Israel was formed. Israel has since fought several wars with neighboring Arab states.


Yet they had no country until 1947

No.2 - Schwarzkopf wanted "to finish the job", he was told he didn't have a UN mandate for that, only to free Kuwait. Come Iraq, the USA didn't make the same mistake twice.


could off , should off , but didn't ,they made the same mistake twice


Now that the cold war has ended with the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991, most people think that a nuke war such as that which was feared between Russia and America is not likely to happen. What has taken over is worldwide terrorism, based on religious differences. A totally different kind of war.


I was saying that a nuke will be used i didn't say whom would be the first and wars tend to get out of hand and others will try to use it to there advantage so never say never as the word has no meaning (and i'm not talking a dicitionary meaning)

All but 1 off the points i made are the reason we are in the position we are now and only the first i dismiss because if point 3 had not been allowed to happen the Jihadi's would not have there propoganda to recruit like they do now
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Message 1626940 - Posted: 13 Jan 2015, 0:42:44 UTC - in response to Message 1626898.  

You never even acknowledge the condemnations, anyway, so, you just keep waiting for "only then". Good day to you, sir.

Show me where condemnations actually stop attacks.

Yanks fan the flames

Yanks can't make up their minds


To be blunt, don't give me that crap.
Tell me why I should follow your links, when you are shifting your statements.
Are you not?
In the post I responded to, and in a number of other cases in the last few years, have you not many times called for the general Islamic world to condemn the attacks of the extremists? (As if to demonstrate they're not all the same?)
Answer honestly.
I will not, for the time, address whether condemnations stop attacks or not because that has not been what you've previously discussed to the best of my knowledge.
Besides, I would've expected Michel to make a point on whether condemnations have any power to deter.

In the meantime, while I admit having divided attention, seems I just heard Abbas and Netanyahu both showed up to show support for France. Furthermore, that a Muslim was working at a kosher Jewish food store in France who protected Jewish customers of said store?
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Message 1626951 - Posted: 13 Jan 2015, 1:50:28 UTC - in response to Message 1626940.  

Message 1626261

Hmmm...Maybe that's why they won't police themselves as they see how "The Great Satan" police themselves.
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Message 1626981 - Posted: 13 Jan 2015, 4:31:38 UTC - in response to Message 1626979.  

Welcome back Sarge.

We missed you. I think.

Yes
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Message 1627071 - Posted: 13 Jan 2015, 10:18:19 UTC - in response to Message 1626859.  

Shall we begin a lesson on data mining? Oh, wait, people will need a prerequisite amount of math and statistics knowledge.

Fact remains that for all that data collection they have done, every independent inquiry done into the effectiveness of the program has found that it has not helped at all.
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Message 1627084 - Posted: 13 Jan 2015, 11:04:12 UTC - in response to Message 1627071.  
Last modified: 13 Jan 2015, 12:00:56 UTC

Shall we begin a lesson on data mining? Oh, wait, people will need a prerequisite amount of math and statistics knowledge.

Fact remains that for all that data collection they have done, every independent inquiry done into the effectiveness of the program has found that it has not helped at all.

Are you sure?
In Sweden we have avoided two terrorist attacks using signals intelligence and data mining only for a period of one and half years.


The goal of Paris and Copenhagen: Dead to silence. The terrorist attack in Paris seems to be a copy of the deed that four men from Sweden planned against Jyllands-Posten in Copenhagen in December 2010.

In both cases, the goal was to silence a newspaper office by killing as many as possible of its employees. Motive: that newspapers exercised freedom of speech in a manner that violated the fanatical bombers. But in Copenhagen failed terrorists.

The reason for the latter was that SÄPO (Security Police) had track of the perpetrators. When the four men - three Swedish citizens and a Tunisian - December 28, 2010 rented a Toyota Avensis at Statoil in Kista and drove E4 south, via Malmö to Copenhagen, they where monitored since long.
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Message 1627095 - Posted: 13 Jan 2015, 11:59:27 UTC - in response to Message 1627084.  

Are you sure?
In Sweden we have avoided two terrorist attacks using signals intelligence and data mining only for a period of one and half years.

Says who? The Swedish intelligence community?

And yes I'm sure. Hell, the NSA later even admitted itself that the initial 50+ foiled terrorist plots was hugely inflated nonsense. In reality PRISM only helped, along with other intelligence gathering practices and in close cooperation with other law enforcement agencies to stop about 1 or 2 'events'. One of those events being a cab driver sending a few thousand dollar to some Somali organization deemed terrorist by the US.

Lets face the facts and get rid of those mass surveillance programs shall we? They don't work, they are massive invasions of your privacy and I'm pretty sure those billions of dollars/euros spend on maintaining those programs is far better spend on something useful, like say cancer research or upping the R&D budgets for NASA and other scientific endeavors.
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Message 1627100 - Posted: 13 Jan 2015, 12:08:24 UTC - in response to Message 1627095.  
Last modified: 13 Jan 2015, 12:16:54 UTC

Are you sure?
In Sweden we have avoided two terrorist attacks using signals intelligence and data mining only for a period of one and half years.

Says who? The Swedish intelligence community?

And yes I'm sure. Hell, the NSA later even admitted itself that the initial 50+ foiled terrorist plots was hugely inflated nonsense. In reality PRISM only helped, along with other intelligence gathering practices and in close cooperation with other law enforcement agencies to stop about 1 or 2 'events'. One of those events being a cab driver sending a few thousand dollar to some Somali organization deemed terrorist by the US.

Lets face the facts and get rid of those mass surveillance programs shall we? They don't work, they are massive invasions of your privacy and I'm pretty sure those billions of dollars/euros spend on maintaining those programs is far better spend on something useful, like say cancer research or upping the R&D budgets for NASA and other scientific endeavors.

:)
According to Anders Thornberg SÄPO manager (Swedish Security Police) has staved off two terrorist attacks in Sweden this past year. It has been at such an early stage that no crime been time committed.

https://translate.google.se/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.svt.se%2Fnyheter%2Fsverige%2Fsapo-80-svenskar-har-atervant-fran-kriget&edit-text=
And http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=75775&postid=1627084
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Message 1627118 - Posted: 13 Jan 2015, 12:49:58 UTC - in response to Message 1627100.  

According to Anders Thornberg SÄPO manager (Swedish Security Police) has staved off two terrorist attacks in Sweden this past year. It has been at such an early stage that no crime been time committed.

https://translate.google.se/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.svt.se%2Fnyheter%2Fsverige%2Fsapo-80-svenskar-har-atervant-fran-kriget&edit-text=
And http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=75775&postid=1627084

See, here is the problem. The people telling you that those programs work are the people who have a direct interest in keeping those programs around. They know that they stand a better chance of having those programs around if they tell that it totally helps them stop terrorists. I mean, these are the same people that will tell you to your face that torture totally has resulted in unique and otherwise unobtainable intelligence when its proven beyond any doubt that torture does not work and has never worked.

Everything these people tell you about what they need to do their job is suspect because they have constantly lied about it, in order to keep highly intrusive and unethical programs around.


For the record, I'm not arguing that we shouldn't have intelligence agencies, or that those agencies should have absolutely no means to spy on people. I'm simply saying that the 'normal' methods (that being targeted surveillance against known or suspected terrorists) are quite enough for them to do their job.
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