How will the universe end - with a bang or with a whimper?
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How will the universe end - with a bang or with a whimper?
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 Andrew Sanchez  Send message Joined: 10 Apr 14 Posts: 69 Credit: 471,907 RAC: 0 
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I would search the Kavli Institute site for the talk delivered on August 2013 titled "Infprmation Preservation and Weather Forecasting for Black Holes". I no longer have the link. Okay, i read Hawking's paper (of which i was able to understand a very small fraction, with the help of wiki LOL) and read numerous articles about the paper (which helped a lot). So with Hawking's "apparent horizon" information actually could escape but it would still be scrambled beyond recognition. But, i may be wrong here, since entanglement information transfer happens FTL, and possibly outside of time-space altogether, an entangled particle falling into a black hole then having some force change its spin and relaying that info to its partner ,which we are observing, wouldn't be subjected to the restrictions of the event horizon, apparent or otherwise, so it would escape and it wouldn't be scrambled, right? ID: 1520438 ·  |
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tullio Send message Joined: 9 Apr 04 Posts: 8797 Credit: 2,930,782 RAC: 1 
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I would search the Kavli Institute site for the talk delivered on August 2013 titled "Infprmation Preservation and Weather Forecasting for Black Holes". I no longer have the link. I think you're right. Few people have tackled this subject so far. Tullio ID: 1520552 · |
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ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20291 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 
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... i may be wrong here, since entanglement information transfer happens FTL, and possibly outside of time-space altogether... Anything "faster-than-light", including information, suggests that 'something' is already there, or the 'something' is an abstraction that isn't physically really there at all. Or there are other dimensions to worm through. Or, you've created a whole new universe! Keep searchin', Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) ID: 1520591 · |
William Rothamel  Send message Joined: 25 Oct 06 Posts: 3756 Credit: 1,999,735 RAC: 4
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I am quite sure that the cosmic speed limit of light speed applies actually to information transfer speed. Therefore if it is claimed that entanglement info travels at faster than light speed then I do think that what was observed was already there, and no information passed at greater than light speed. What do the experts say ? Hoe could you measure something that moved at faster than light speed--what does instantaneous mean in this context?? ID: 1520629 · |
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Andrew Sanchez Send message Joined: 10 Apr 14 Posts: 69 Credit: 471,907 RAC: 0
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Physicists Find a Link between Wormholes and Spooky Action at a Distance The new theory connects quantum entanglement with Einstein’s general relativity Dec 11, 2013 |By Clara Moskowitz http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/wormholes-quantum-entanglement-link/ Just thought i'd put that out there if anyone missed it. It combines some of the things we've been talking about but not exactly. Still, it is interesting reading if you haven't seen it yet. ID: 1520899 · |
Bernard  Send message Joined: 11 Apr 12 Posts: 20 Credit: 1,801,975 RAC: 0 
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I think that no one presently can answer to this question. ID: 1521255 · |
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Bernard Send message Joined: 11 Apr 12 Posts: 20 Credit: 1,801,975 RAC: 0
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Due to space expansion the most far away galaxies are actually escaping from us at a speed greater then light speed. ID: 1521256 · |
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tullio Send message Joined: 9 Apr 04 Posts: 8797 Credit: 2,930,782 RAC: 1
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Lynn   Send message Joined: 20 Nov 00 Posts: 14162 Credit: 79,603,650 RAC: 123
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Eric Send message Joined: 1 Mar 13 Posts: 11 Credit: 284,515 RAC: 0
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Does this mean that if an alien spaceship was travelling towards us at the speed of light, and had originated somewhere where space is expanding away from us, that the ship would never be able to make any progress towards us? Or would the expansion not affect the ship somehow? Thanks! ID: 1524517 · |
Julie  Send message Joined: 28 Oct 09 Posts: 34053 Credit: 18,883,157 RAC: 18 
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Does this mean that if an alien spaceship was travelling towards us at the speed of light, and had originated somewhere where space is expanding away from us, that the ship would never be able to make any progress towards us? Or would the expansion not affect the ship somehow? Thanks! Originated from the big bang you mean. Of course it could speed towards us. It probably has some kind of propulsion power that would not affect the WIMPS of which dark energy 'partly' exists. [edit] Weakly Interacting Massive Particles rOZZ Music Pictures ID: 1524524 · |
Bob DeWoody  Send message Joined: 9 May 10 Posts: 3387 Credit: 4,182,900 RAC: 10
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I would think that everything in this galaxy is moving together so the alien spaceship would eventually get here. Now for an object way on the other side of the universe I have no idea and it really doesn't matter. Bob DeWoody My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events. ID: 1524528 · |
Batter Up  Send message Joined: 5 May 99 Posts: 1946 Credit: 24,860,347 RAC: 0
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Does this mean that if an alien spaceship was travelling towards us at the speed of light, and had originated somewhere where space is expanding away from us, that the ship would never be able to make any progress towards us? Or would the expansion not affect the ship somehow? Thanks! Once matter enters the Universes' space time area it is subject to the laws of physics so the alien ship could not go the speed of light but its reflected or generated photons will continue at the speed of light and get here first. 
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edjcox  Send message Joined: 20 May 99 Posts: 96 Credit: 5,878,353 RAC: 0
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Atomic structure at the event horizon ceases. Due the intense gravitational effect in proximity to the accretion disk matter gets stripped of it's fabric and coherency. Conventional atomic structure, ie neutron, electrons, protons all lose their minds and guidance and are simply free to fall towards the gravitational well that is the black hole. Massless particles not attracted are free to do what they will. We do not exactly know what that is as orbital dynamics end. Cohesion of atoms, matter ceases. Energy is released and may actually leave our universe into the oblivion these cosmic sinkholes represent. We have observed jets escaping from accretion disks, Understanding how and why these mass containing jets can overcome a black holes gravitational well, what forms them and how where the energy comes from remains the province of theoretical astro-physics. We have a very foggy notion but it's a grand mystery. The mystery is what/where and when does all that stuff go. Is there some escape hatch in there from our universes existence and space time. Do black holes represent some cosmic drain back into the primordial before the big bang. Is this the way back to square and time zero? Lot's to think about, but we have little understanding and no good way to see what goes on at the edge of our universe and in a sea of no time /all time /some time....... My thought is that when the expansion stops and the condensation begins, the many black holes will be swallowing up and taking mass in universe someplace and like a piece of swiss cheese the universe will fold and simply pop out of existence of the then here and now into.... I'll leave that undone.... Never engage stupid people at their level, they then have the home court advantage..... ID: 1524660 · |
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Eric Send message Joined: 1 Mar 13 Posts: 11 Credit: 284,515 RAC: 0
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Originated from the big bang you mean. Of course it could speed towards us. It probably has some kind of propulsion power that would not affect the WIMPS of which dark energy 'partly' exists. ID: 1524807 · |
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William Rothamel Send message Joined: 25 Oct 06 Posts: 3756 Credit: 1,999,735 RAC: 4
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In theory it couldn't go anywhere since space is expanding faster than the speed of light ??? ID: 1524913 · |
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Julie Send message Joined: 28 Oct 09 Posts: 34053 Credit: 18,883,157 RAC: 18
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Keep thinking of that dark energy though. Wouldn't the propulsion power of the ship be more powerful? We have rockets too now, that travel through space? I think on a quantum level it is certainly the case that 'normal' atoms overpower the WIMPS out of which dark energy exists. The Universe consists mostly of dark energy. If we rule out the propulsion power, the ship would just move along with the expansion, like all celestial bodies do, I think. rOZZ Music Pictures ID: 1525096 · |
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Eric Send message Joined: 1 Mar 13 Posts: 11 Credit: 284,515 RAC: 0
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In theory it couldn't go anywhere since space is expanding faster than the speed of light ??? That is exactly what I was getting at William. ID: 1526287 · |
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Eric Send message Joined: 1 Mar 13 Posts: 11 Credit: 284,515 RAC: 0
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So is the thread dead Zed? ID: 1528842 · |
anniet  Send message Joined: 2 Feb 14 Posts: 7105 Credit: 1,577,368 RAC: 75 
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So is the thread dead Zed? I hope not :) I've been finding it very interesting, trouble is I'm usually reading it way past my bedtime, which means my brain is a bit too zonked to make useful posts! ID: 1528843 · |
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