SETI@home Version 7 has been released

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Profile Wingless Wonder

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Message 1375187 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 7:40:30 UTC - in response to Message 1374987.  

NO! Another case of me being at the wrong website at the wrong time? I'm so able to be wrong - and apologize. The website just happened to go down? I thought I had a worm. Needless to say that is unacceptable after all the "testers" etc. You all just lost me and anyone I will ever meet. Well, maybe I will cut you some slack in Heaven and offer you a hug. Nytol.

That's a lot of drama for 8 days of participation.

I had no issues downloading v7 (cuda42 version for my NVIDIA card) last night, once I had renamed my old app_info.xml file to something else. I let enough of them complete and upload until I was certain everything was working fine, which it appears to be.
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Message 1375226 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 8:29:29 UTC

Please stop replaying on obvious spam. Someone here needs to read all of this junk after all. Mods, maybe some more active action is appropriate already? Whole half-hour of reading for nothing :/

SETI apps news
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Message 1375230 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 8:37:06 UTC - in response to Message 1375103.  
Last modified: 2 Jun 2013, 8:38:40 UTC

hi jason

saw you mentioned in another post in this area as a guru for the lunatics ... i've gotten the .xml file corrected so seti (and i also use enstien as a backup) is running again ....

i was wondering if there was anyway i could tell that the lunatic overclocking setting were still in place? forgive my ignorance but i am just not well-versed on the inside workings of this program

thanks for any help :)


Hi cormac, and welcome to the forum.

Lunatics is due to release an update sometime soon (in the next couple of days) so watch the Number Crunching forum for an update on that. That forum is the best place for technical help of all sorts, of this kind, so posting there for help would be the best.

For monitoring what's going on with my tasks, I like to use Fred's BoincTasks http://www.efmer.eu/boinc/boinc_tasks/

I see you have a CPU cruncher there, so CPU monitoring applications like speedfan might be worth a look, while I use eVGA precision X for monitoring GPU (not applicable in your machine).

HTH
Jason
"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.
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Message 1375271 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 9:35:39 UTC

OK gents, ladies, and others of indeterminate gender.

This thread is the NEWS about the introduction of SETI@Home version 7.

It is NOT about why a cruncher is returning duff results, it is NOT about BOINC version 7. There are threads that are working on those issues, have a look in "Number Crunching" and you may well find an answer to your question has already been posted. If not start a thread with your question, DO NOT pollute or divert other threads, as some folks get very tetchy about you so doing.
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Message 1375276 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 10:12:01 UTC - in response to Message 1374852.  

How many creds do you need to replace a 1990 Oldsmobile Ciera anyway?

Just replace it; whatever you replace it with (outside an Alfa Romeo) will magically multiply your street cred!
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Message 1375278 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 10:31:36 UTC - in response to Message 1374970.  
Last modified: 2 Jun 2013, 10:34:39 UTC

The most SAH members are 'stock' BOINC/SAH users.
The BOINC D/L all what is needed from the SAH server automatically.
Just check the 'SETI@home v7' ckeckbox in the project settings.

I can't remember if the checkbox was automatically unchecked or checked as the checkbox was added to the project settings. Other topic. ;-)

IMHO, it wasn't checked automatically.

If the member decide to use an app_info.xml file in the project folder, he, the member need to care about the installed apps.
He get this information before he install and use an app_info.xml file.

Correct. However....

So the member need to look from time to time to the number crunching forum about newest news/apps. Here is the thread in NC about new 3rd party apps.
And what is to do if something like now is happen.

So app_info.xml file user don't need to insult the SAH admins if the PC don't get newest apps.

I was not insulting the SAH admins. I expressed the lack of management that I noticed when switching to the V7 version.


The SAH admins and the Lunatics crew work very close together.


I doubt. If so, the SAH admins would have been waited for the Lunatics programmers to come up with a new application designed for V7 WU. One of the points I criticise most.


But, the admins can do nothing if the members decide to use 3rd party (Lunatics) apps.
The SAH server can send new apps only if there is no app_info.xml file in the project folder.


Isn't it pretty ignorant to know, that many participants supporting the project with computing time (and by that with money through the electricity bill) using Lunatics apps and not taking care of them in the preparation phase before going to another version? I see this responsibility on the side of the SAH admins.

Of course, the Lunatics apps are very welcome at SAH, but the member alone need to do then everything manually.
Install new apps, delete the app_info.xml file for to let run short time stock apps - like to the next Monday, and so on.

Again, a few weeks of close interaction with the Lunatics guys would have given them time enough to adopt the new version and in parallel release a new Lunatics app. This opportunity was missed by the SAH admins.

Let the admins time for to explain what this new search mean.
Just one before, this will increase the chance to find extraterrestrial life.

Beg you pardon, but why didn't the SAH admins develop an info sheet right away before the switch to V7? You had all the time you needed. It was your own schedule. The hasty release of V7 with no flanking / supporting measures was your decision, and it was managed poor.
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Message 1375280 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 10:40:15 UTC - in response to Message 1375278.  
Last modified: 2 Jun 2013, 10:41:01 UTC

The SAH admins and the Lunatics crew work very close together.

I doubt. If so, the SAH admins would have been waited for the Lunatics programmers to come up with a new application designed for V7 WU. One of the points I criticise most.

You "doubt" without knowledge - all the new apps are made by Lunatics

You can see this even in the News:
"My thanks to the KWSN/lunatics folks for getting this done and especially to Raistmer, Jason, Josef, Urs, Claggy, Mike, Richard, ..."

(and the new Lunatics installer is coming in a few days (maybe tomorrow))


 


- ALF - "Find out what you don't do well ..... then don't do it!" :)
 
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Message 1375286 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 11:18:11 UTC - in response to Message 1375278.  

Again, a few weeks of close interaction with the Lunatics guys would have given them time enough to adopt the new version and in parallel release a new Lunatics app. This opportunity was missed by the SAH admins.

There has actually been over two years of close interaction between the SETI admins and Lunatics (for SETI v7 alone - v6 and Astropulse collaboration continued and continues alongside). See Beta message 40285 - the distribution of test work for that v7 collaboration started on 17 March 2011.
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Message 1375318 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 12:34:24 UTC - in response to Message 1375118.  

The first invalid result of my machine (The WU was calculated correct! I'm a beta tester and the app is running very well on my system.), because of two wingman with 'SETI@home v7 v7.03 (opencl_ati5_sah)' apps and wrong results. :-(
So this WU is uncrunched and lost?

26mr10ab.22208.11282.8.12.10 - wuid=1255961084

OK, OK, the result have 5x 0.
But the next WU have maybe 'better' findings?!

Both wingmen are running too low an APP runtime version, need to be an APP SDK 2.6 driver/APP runtime :

Driver version: CAL 1.4.1607 (VM)
Version: OpenCL 1.1 AMD-APP-SDK-v2.5 (793.1)

Claggy


I found this hostid=6343230.

This machine D/L 8 MB AP files just for to trash them immediately.
Wasted bandwidth.

This machine have also a too old driver installed?

Why send SAH then WUs to such hosts...
Maybe the admins could adjust something for to prevent this?

The change as far as I know was to stop v7 work going to hosts with too old a APP runtime, this host has never had AMD v7 work because it is running Boinc 6.12.34, this Boinc doesn't do OpenCL detection so can't supply APP runtime version:

Application details for host 6343230

The AMD OpenCL AP problem is maybe a corrupt dll, exit code is: - exit code -1073741515 (0xc0000135), or maybe a total lack of AMD OpenCL support, drivers around that time had the OpenCL driver as an optional download,
the AMD OpenCL AP work it's receiving is using the ati_opencl_100 plan class, this uses the assumption that a GPU with driver x will also have OpenCL support, looking at the Cat 10.9 driver page there's no mention of an OpenCL driver being included,
Cat 11.1 is required before an OpenCL driver is mentioned as being included, since CAL version 1.4.900 is also shared with Cat 10.12, the minimum driver for this app version should be at least 11.2 (CAL 1.4.1016)

Claggy
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Message 1375349 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 13:30:24 UTC - in response to Message 1375280.  
Last modified: 2 Jun 2013, 13:34:43 UTC

(and the new Lunatics installer is coming in a few days (maybe tomorrow))


So, why not releasing an updated Lunatics app in parallel with switching to V7? It would have avoided many apps user to feel p***** off.

Therefore I doubt a close relationship between SAH admins and Lunatics. The release plans were not synchronized in any way.
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Message 1375367 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 13:53:45 UTC - in response to Message 1375349.  

(and the new Lunatics installer is coming in a few days (maybe tomorrow))


So, why not releasing an updated Lunatics app in parallel with switching to V7? It would have avoided many apps user to feel p***** off.

Therefore I doubt a close relationship between SAH admins and Lunatics. The release plans were not synchronized in any way.

Contrary the opposite (<- if this is correct English)

AFAIK the release of Lunatics installer was intentionally postponed (to see how the stock SETI@home v7 will 'go wild' by itself)


 


- ALF - "Find out what you don't do well ..... then don't do it!" :)
 
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Message 1375368 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 13:55:31 UTC - in response to Message 1375349.  

(and the new Lunatics installer is coming in a few days (maybe tomorrow))

So, why not releasing an updated Lunatics app in parallel with switching to V7? It would have avoided many apps user to feel p***** off.

Therefore I doubt a close relationship between SAH admins and Lunatics. The release plans were not synchronized in any way.

*sigh*. I'm trying to write (debug) the installer now, on a sunny summer sunday afternoon, rather than answer silly questions here.

There are two reasons why the updated installer can't be released at the same time as the Main project stock release:

1) We have to wait until we have final sight of the deployed application name, version numbers, and plan classes to ensure compatibility. These can be changed by last-minute glitches during release.

2) We do actually test it before release, against the live main server, you might be surprised to hear.

Oh, and...

3) Last time SETI@home released a new application (Astropulse v6, last year), Eric specifically said:

It'll take a while for the credit granted by this application to settle out to a reasonably constant value. If you run optimized applications, I'd suggest you wait a couple of weeks before starting to do Astropulse v6 work just to avoid the possibility that you will be granted an extremely low credit for your work.
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Message 1375378 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 14:26:54 UTC

Oh, and if anybody's wondering why I'm reading here, when I'm supposed to to be writing elsewhere:

I'm getting comments, suggestions, and corrections coming in to me from three different continents (Australia, Europe, and North America), in three vastly different time-zones, and via three different websites. This is one of them, although you don't see the PMs.
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Message 1375441 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 16:27:36 UTC

I guess it is like always when something new comes.

Some things work fine.
Other things doesn't
Fine, then everbody involved start to work on the issues that doesn't work until they are fixed.

That's my impression of how things work here.

And there are always people who comment, suggest, complain about alot. Myself included.

It takes time to get all things together and in the right place.
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Message 1375455 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 16:51:45 UTC - in response to Message 1375443.  

Didn't it come to your mind for a single second, that all these complains that you have read regarding the V7 release are a result of not informing people in advance?

The reasons that you just posted are vaild, but not known to the vast majority of the SETI users.

A short posting in advance of the V7 release informing all users would have been sufficient. But the opportunity was missed.

Ignorance? Misconception?


I'd agree with ignorance and misconception, but on the user's behalf.

If a user took the time to install an optimized application, then they should take the time to read the forums for any updates. The v7 application has been mentioned for well over 6 months now in various places on the forums.

Again, it is not the responsibility of the Project Admins to let Anonymous platform users know that a change is coming and what they will need to do afterward. The entire point of the Anonymous platform is that it is an unsupported feature allowing people to write applications for unsupported platforms.

The Project is only responsible for supporting the stock applications using the conventional automatic updating feature of BOINC.
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Message 1375483 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 17:45:28 UTC - in response to Message 1375443.  

*sigh*. I'm trying to write (debug) the installer now, on a sunny summer sunday afternoon, rather than answer silly questions here.


Thanks for assessing my critique as silly questions. Mea culpa, Master Haselgrove!

Didn't it come to your mind for a single second, that all these complains that you have read regarding the V7 release are a result of not informing people in advance?

The reasons that you just posted are vaild, but not known to the vast majority of the SETI users.

A short posting in advance of the V7 release informing all users would have been sufficient. But the opportunity was missed.

Ignorance? Misconception?

Have a sunny summer afternoon.



All people involved are to help at forums when there will be alot of different issues regarding V7.
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Message 1375486 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 17:48:28 UTC - in response to Message 1375455.  

Didn't it come to your mind for a single second, that all these complains that you have read regarding the V7 release are a result of not informing people in advance?

The reasons that you just posted are vaild, but not known to the vast majority of the SETI users.

A short posting in advance of the V7 release informing all users would have been sufficient. But the opportunity was missed.

Ignorance? Misconception?


I'd agree with ignorance and misconception, but on the user's behalf.

If a user took the time to install an optimized application, then they should take the time to read the forums for any updates. The v7 application has been mentioned for well over 6 months now in various places on the forums.

Again, it is not the responsibility of the Project Admins to let Anonymous platform users know that a change is coming and what they will need to do afterward. The entire point of the Anonymous platform is that it is an unsupported feature allowing people to write applications for unsupported platforms.

The Project is only responsible for supporting the stock applications using the conventional automatic updating feature of BOINC.


At Beta there are people who run optimized applications even that particular app aren't the one that should be tested.
So there is always some anarchy involved.
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Message 1375546 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 19:34:32 UTC - in response to Message 1375530.  

gs, since you are so opinionated about this, why don't you get involved with Lunatics and help publish the info you think the rest of us need.
OBW, I read the forums about V7 coming and it has been seamless for me.
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Message 1375560 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 19:58:05 UTC - in response to Message 1375546.  
Last modified: 2 Jun 2013, 20:03:21 UTC

gs, since you are so opinionated about this, why don't you get involved with Lunatics and help publish the info you think the rest of us need.
OBW, I read the forums about V7 coming and it has been seamless for me.


Me, opinionated?
Well, this thread is about 12 pages now, half of it full of complaints about people using non-standard configurations crunching SETI WU and complaning about things going the wrong way after SAH changed to V7.

Now, all I pointed out is, that with the SAH admins acting a little more anticipating and communicative, all users (regardless if running stock SAH setup or "Anonymous platforms" or Lunatics apps) could have been informed well in advance about
- the problems to be expected with non-standard setups
- the status of the development of Lunatics apps for V7 (if SAH and Lunatics were working together really that close...)
- a "first aid" procedure to make V7 WUs run on modified systems
- information about what's new in V7 (even today, I haven't seen such a piece of information...)

and all I get is "SAH is not responsible". LOL!
And you call me "opinionated"?

This change in the SETI programm was poorly managed, communication was poor and didn't include active measures to help the community as a whole.
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Message 1375573 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 20:10:48 UTC

To be fair to gs, I think some of you are misreading him.

His main comment isn't about communications from Lunatics, it's about communications from Eric and the main project.

To be frank, it would have been helpful to us to have had a clearer timetable and more details of the rollout plans (like those version numbers and so on) a little further in advance, too. Then, our volunteers - who juggle their contributions with work, family and/or social lives - would have been a little better prepared. But SETI isn't a commercial corporation with profits and shareholders to pull its strings: it's an academic, scientific, research project at the bleeding edge. Sh*t happens.

I'm lucky: because I'm retired now, I can devote as much or as little of my time to my hobbies as I choose. I've worked through the weekend because I enjoy the challenge and the sense of satisfaction I get from a 'job well done' when it's finished. Other colleagues don't have that luxury, but still have to be consulted when they come back online after the weekend. Testing continues, but we won't release until we're sure it's right, whenever that is.

And with that, break-time is over, and I'll turn round and disappear back into the cellar.
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Message boards : News : SETI@home Version 7 has been released


 
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