SETI@home Version 7 has been released

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Message 1375349 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 13:30:24 UTC - in response to Message 1375280.  
Last modified: 2 Jun 2013, 13:34:43 UTC

(and the new Lunatics installer is coming in a few days (maybe tomorrow))


So, why not releasing an updated Lunatics app in parallel with switching to V7? It would have avoided many apps user to feel p***** off.

Therefore I doubt a close relationship between SAH admins and Lunatics. The release plans were not synchronized in any way.
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Message 1375367 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 13:53:45 UTC - in response to Message 1375349.  

(and the new Lunatics installer is coming in a few days (maybe tomorrow))


So, why not releasing an updated Lunatics app in parallel with switching to V7? It would have avoided many apps user to feel p***** off.

Therefore I doubt a close relationship between SAH admins and Lunatics. The release plans were not synchronized in any way.

Contrary the opposite (<- if this is correct English)

AFAIK the release of Lunatics installer was intentionally postponed (to see how the stock SETI@home v7 will 'go wild' by itself)


 


- ALF - "Find out what you don't do well ..... then don't do it!" :)
 
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Message 1375368 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 13:55:31 UTC - in response to Message 1375349.  

(and the new Lunatics installer is coming in a few days (maybe tomorrow))

So, why not releasing an updated Lunatics app in parallel with switching to V7? It would have avoided many apps user to feel p***** off.

Therefore I doubt a close relationship between SAH admins and Lunatics. The release plans were not synchronized in any way.

*sigh*. I'm trying to write (debug) the installer now, on a sunny summer sunday afternoon, rather than answer silly questions here.

There are two reasons why the updated installer can't be released at the same time as the Main project stock release:

1) We have to wait until we have final sight of the deployed application name, version numbers, and plan classes to ensure compatibility. These can be changed by last-minute glitches during release.

2) We do actually test it before release, against the live main server, you might be surprised to hear.

Oh, and...

3) Last time SETI@home released a new application (Astropulse v6, last year), Eric specifically said:

It'll take a while for the credit granted by this application to settle out to a reasonably constant value. If you run optimized applications, I'd suggest you wait a couple of weeks before starting to do Astropulse v6 work just to avoid the possibility that you will be granted an extremely low credit for your work.
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Message 1375378 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 14:26:54 UTC

Oh, and if anybody's wondering why I'm reading here, when I'm supposed to to be writing elsewhere:

I'm getting comments, suggestions, and corrections coming in to me from three different continents (Australia, Europe, and North America), in three vastly different time-zones, and via three different websites. This is one of them, although you don't see the PMs.
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Message 1375441 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 16:27:36 UTC

I guess it is like always when something new comes.

Some things work fine.
Other things doesn't
Fine, then everbody involved start to work on the issues that doesn't work until they are fixed.

That's my impression of how things work here.

And there are always people who comment, suggest, complain about alot. Myself included.

It takes time to get all things together and in the right place.
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Message 1375455 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 16:51:45 UTC - in response to Message 1375443.  

Didn't it come to your mind for a single second, that all these complains that you have read regarding the V7 release are a result of not informing people in advance?

The reasons that you just posted are vaild, but not known to the vast majority of the SETI users.

A short posting in advance of the V7 release informing all users would have been sufficient. But the opportunity was missed.

Ignorance? Misconception?


I'd agree with ignorance and misconception, but on the user's behalf.

If a user took the time to install an optimized application, then they should take the time to read the forums for any updates. The v7 application has been mentioned for well over 6 months now in various places on the forums.

Again, it is not the responsibility of the Project Admins to let Anonymous platform users know that a change is coming and what they will need to do afterward. The entire point of the Anonymous platform is that it is an unsupported feature allowing people to write applications for unsupported platforms.

The Project is only responsible for supporting the stock applications using the conventional automatic updating feature of BOINC.
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Message 1375483 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 17:45:28 UTC - in response to Message 1375443.  

*sigh*. I'm trying to write (debug) the installer now, on a sunny summer sunday afternoon, rather than answer silly questions here.


Thanks for assessing my critique as silly questions. Mea culpa, Master Haselgrove!

Didn't it come to your mind for a single second, that all these complains that you have read regarding the V7 release are a result of not informing people in advance?

The reasons that you just posted are vaild, but not known to the vast majority of the SETI users.

A short posting in advance of the V7 release informing all users would have been sufficient. But the opportunity was missed.

Ignorance? Misconception?

Have a sunny summer afternoon.



All people involved are to help at forums when there will be alot of different issues regarding V7.
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Message 1375486 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 17:48:28 UTC - in response to Message 1375455.  

Didn't it come to your mind for a single second, that all these complains that you have read regarding the V7 release are a result of not informing people in advance?

The reasons that you just posted are vaild, but not known to the vast majority of the SETI users.

A short posting in advance of the V7 release informing all users would have been sufficient. But the opportunity was missed.

Ignorance? Misconception?


I'd agree with ignorance and misconception, but on the user's behalf.

If a user took the time to install an optimized application, then they should take the time to read the forums for any updates. The v7 application has been mentioned for well over 6 months now in various places on the forums.

Again, it is not the responsibility of the Project Admins to let Anonymous platform users know that a change is coming and what they will need to do afterward. The entire point of the Anonymous platform is that it is an unsupported feature allowing people to write applications for unsupported platforms.

The Project is only responsible for supporting the stock applications using the conventional automatic updating feature of BOINC.


At Beta there are people who run optimized applications even that particular app aren't the one that should be tested.
So there is always some anarchy involved.
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Message 1375546 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 19:34:32 UTC - in response to Message 1375530.  

gs, since you are so opinionated about this, why don't you get involved with Lunatics and help publish the info you think the rest of us need.
OBW, I read the forums about V7 coming and it has been seamless for me.
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Message 1375560 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 19:58:05 UTC - in response to Message 1375546.  
Last modified: 2 Jun 2013, 20:03:21 UTC

gs, since you are so opinionated about this, why don't you get involved with Lunatics and help publish the info you think the rest of us need.
OBW, I read the forums about V7 coming and it has been seamless for me.


Me, opinionated?
Well, this thread is about 12 pages now, half of it full of complaints about people using non-standard configurations crunching SETI WU and complaning about things going the wrong way after SAH changed to V7.

Now, all I pointed out is, that with the SAH admins acting a little more anticipating and communicative, all users (regardless if running stock SAH setup or "Anonymous platforms" or Lunatics apps) could have been informed well in advance about
- the problems to be expected with non-standard setups
- the status of the development of Lunatics apps for V7 (if SAH and Lunatics were working together really that close...)
- a "first aid" procedure to make V7 WUs run on modified systems
- information about what's new in V7 (even today, I haven't seen such a piece of information...)

and all I get is "SAH is not responsible". LOL!
And you call me "opinionated"?

This change in the SETI programm was poorly managed, communication was poor and didn't include active measures to help the community as a whole.
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Message 1375573 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 20:10:48 UTC

To be fair to gs, I think some of you are misreading him.

His main comment isn't about communications from Lunatics, it's about communications from Eric and the main project.

To be frank, it would have been helpful to us to have had a clearer timetable and more details of the rollout plans (like those version numbers and so on) a little further in advance, too. Then, our volunteers - who juggle their contributions with work, family and/or social lives - would have been a little better prepared. But SETI isn't a commercial corporation with profits and shareholders to pull its strings: it's an academic, scientific, research project at the bleeding edge. Sh*t happens.

I'm lucky: because I'm retired now, I can devote as much or as little of my time to my hobbies as I choose. I've worked through the weekend because I enjoy the challenge and the sense of satisfaction I get from a 'job well done' when it's finished. Other colleagues don't have that luxury, but still have to be consulted when they come back online after the weekend. Testing continues, but we won't release until we're sure it's right, whenever that is.

And with that, break-time is over, and I'll turn round and disappear back into the cellar.
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Message 1375579 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 20:28:31 UTC - in response to Message 1375560.  


Me, opinionated?
Well, this thread is about 12 pages now, half of it full of complaints about people using non-standard configurations crunching SETI WU and complaning about things going the wrong way after SAH changed to V7.


Its 4 pages long. Im personally prone to exaggeration but seriously. Most of those complaints from 'non-standard' users seem to be from you, and posts from people responding to you telling you quite how wrong you are with your random assumptions about various things.


Now, all I pointed out is, that with the SAH admins acting a little more anticipating and communicative, all users (regardless if running stock SAH setup or "Anonymous platforms" or Lunatics apps) could have been informed well in advance about
- the problems to be expected with non-standard setups


Surely you knew about the downfalls of anonymous platform installs when you put them on your computer, or did you just blindly install something, knowing nothing about it?


- the status of the development of Lunatics apps for V7 (if SAH and Lunatics were working together really that close...)


As someone has previously stated... The new apps are lunatics apps. Why do you need to know about the status of them? You obviously never went to the beta site where these apps were tested and were discussed at length (also as previously stated)over many months.


- a "first aid" procedure to make V7 WUs run on modified systems


Ok... Ill do that for you. Run down your cache, exit boinc, go to your projects folder delete your app_info.xml file or just rename it. Reset the project. Restart boinc. Voila.


- information about what's new in V7 (even today, I haven't seen such a piece of information...)


The scientists have been busy as has also been previously stated (recurring theme here i think). It will be posted. Its something to do with Auto Correleations. I wont even attempt to describe this as to be honest, I havent really looked.


and all I get is "SAH is not responsible". LOL!


Theyre not, you are.


And you call me "opinionated"?


I would also say you need to read what people actually respond to you.


This change in the SETI programm was poorly managed, communication was poor and didn't include active measures to help the community as a whole.

You obviously didnt read the number crunching forum, where it was discussed before v7 was released. Please do this instead of whining next time. I imagine that would be much appreciated
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Message 1375587 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 20:56:00 UTC - in response to Message 1375579.  

Its 4 pages long.

The number of posts per page is user-configurable. On my current settings, it's 10 pages (or was, before this post).
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Message 1375589 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 20:58:36 UTC - in response to Message 1375587.  

Its 4 pages long.

The number of posts per page is user-configurable. On my current settings, it's 10 pages (or was, before this post).


Good call. Forgot about that. Sorry GS :)
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Message 1375596 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 21:09:56 UTC - in response to Message 1375594.  
Last modified: 2 Jun 2013, 21:11:14 UTC

Chris, in french, we call it a déjà-vu ! :p
I know that you love so much french then I was not able to refrain ! ;)

EDIT : oups, you edited your message >> Exit for me >>
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Message 1375598 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 21:16:08 UTC - in response to Message 1375573.  

To be fair to gs, I think some of you are misreading him.

His main comment isn't about communications from Lunatics, it's about communications from Eric and the main project.

To be frank, it would have been helpful to us to have had a clearer timetable and more details of the rollout plans (like those version numbers and so on) a little further in advance, too. Then, our volunteers - who juggle their contributions with work, family and/or social lives - would have been a little better prepared. But SETI isn't a commercial corporation with profits and shareholders to pull its strings: it's an academic, scientific, research project at the bleeding edge. Sh*t happens.


I couldn't write it in better words.
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Message 1375604 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 21:25:40 UTC - in response to Message 1375553.  

From Gary Charpentier:


[...]If RAC is all you care about, there are other projects [that] pay far more. Switch today!


+1000 Too many crunchers here are worried about RAC. It's not a race, folks. The project is what matters, not inflating your ego by showing up in the top 10 of some list...Let go of your ego; see past that and you'll realize that we're all on the same team. No one is any better than anyone else.

Deep breaths, people. In a little while everything will be hunky-dory. In the meantime: deep breaths.

Back to the topic. v7 seems to be running pretty good on my end. Still a little confused about two different types of GPU tasks being crunched on my machine, but I know it's somehow a planned thing. Slower to crunch stuff than before, but also a planned thing I think. All in all: I gotz work so I'm happy!

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Message 1375630 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 22:45:45 UTC

I started contributing computer time to this project in 1999 and have enjoyed the opportunity to participate. This is the first time I have been moved to post to a forum. That is because I do not want to post to forums. I suspect that there are far more people like me than any other group.
This transition has not gone very well from my POV. It happened before I knew it was going to happen and finding information has been difficult. All of you who live in the forums may have found it easy, but I sure have not. In trying to fix things myself I have had to peruse and I was disturbed to read that some bunch who appear to be in some form of authority feel that it is the responsibility of end users to dig around to find out what is going on. This is just like the mainframe computer centers of the 1960s to 1990s.
If the only people you want to serve, and be served by, are the leading edge techies then you will soon have only those people. If you want the masses, which I consider myself to be part of, to continue to support SAH and other BOINC projects then follow the professional guidelines for project transitions and communicate with the main end-user mass.
I found the previous discussion disheartening and my first thought was that someone (and I don't know who) needs a vacation.
FYI I am no longer able to process SAH tasks and resetting the project (previously recommended) only downloads some headers and then stops. I will muddle through and eventually get it working. But even the promised note about why all of this is happening has not shown up.
I appreciate the hard work that many people put in. I show that appreciation by running my single computer at home 24 hours a day all year long.
I sure hope we hear something fairly soon. There is nothing like winning to create a deodorant for all ills.
Bruce L. Stegner
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Message 1375632 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 22:53:42 UTC - in response to Message 1375630.  

FYI I am no longer able to process SAH tasks and resetting the project (previously recommended) only downloads some headers and then stops. I will muddle through and eventually get it working. But even the promised note about why all of this is happening has not shown up.


You already have many v7 work units validated. You have currently 6 work units processing. I don't understand the problem as it looks like you are processing well. Please give us more information as to what specific problems you are having.

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Message 1375639 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 23:17:07 UTC - in response to Message 1375632.  

Here are the anomalies
1. In task manager every 5 minutes a request is sent out that says not requesting new tasks.
2. When the only tasks I have in queue are ones requiring my video adapter and I am running out of work (I have 8 cpus on a 64 bit I-7). I can run 9 tasks and get down to 4 or 5. When I request an update it says I am requesting too soon. But I am sitting there idle. I do run other BOINC projects but that is not my purpose.
3. After filling up with other tasks I can still not get any other work. This is different than the previous engine.
4. The only concrete advice I have so far found is to reset the project.
5. When I reset the project all tasks disappear.
6. It begins a request that gets distorted into a request for tasks that says no tasks requested.
7. I get a message that the main engine has been downloaded along with some banners or headers.
8. Now I have no SAH tasks but it continues with these requests every five minutes.
If it would help I can copy the log into an email. I am running windows and have 12 Gbytes of RAM.
Hope that helps. I am fine with waiting a day and trying it all over. I am also fine with uninstalling BOINC and then reinstalling it. I thought I would give it 24 hours to cool off.
Sorry to be taking up board space with this. My original point was just to document that the transition has not been smooth.
Thanks
Bruce
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Message boards : News : SETI@home Version 7 has been released


 
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