Climate Change, 'Greenhouse' effects: Solutions

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Message 1416574 - Posted: 16 Sep 2013, 20:56:33 UTC

And another not-so-small step for cleaner energy:


Pentland Firth tidal turbine project given consent

Work is to begin on the largest tidal turbine energy project in Europe after the Scottish government approved it. MeyGen is to install the tidal array in stages in the Pentland Firth, between Orkney and the Scottish mainland...

... When fully operational, the 86MW array could generate enough electricity to power the equivalent of 42,000 homes...

... a second phase would eventually see up to 400 submerged turbines at the site, generating some 398MW.

It will be the first commercial deployment of tidal turbines in Scottish waters...



Shame there's not more detailed information, especially as the power utilization for tidal stream is very different to that listed for such as wind power...

Still, some pretty big numbers and a good start. Shame the ignorant press also list the ballast for the turbines just for the sake of 'big numbers'. Very dumb.

The turbines and operation should turn out to be something far far from dumb. We may even get a good side benefit of them in effect enforcing environmental sanctuaries where sealife can thrive safely free from the apocalypse of our fishing fleets...


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Message 1423157 - Posted: 2 Oct 2013, 17:30:25 UTC

"Make is so" engineering on display ...

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/10/02/firefighters-alarmed-by-dangers-posed-by-rooftop-solar-panels/
Firefighters alarmed by latest rescue risk: solar panels

Firefighters across the nation are alarmed at the prospect of battling blazes in buildings topped with solar panels, which can create new risks of roofs collapsing, an inability to gain footing and even potential electric shock.

...

“We may very well not be able to save buildings that have alternative energy,” New Jersey’s Acting Fire Marshall William Kramer told The Star-Ledger.

Experts told FoxNews.com that the biggest danger posed by the panels is that they continue to send voltage down from the roof throughout the building even after power is shut down. In a conventional building, firefighters typically cut off the electricity leading into the house before entering.

“First of all, solar panels are designed to generate electricity any time there’s light received by the panels, and that happens in low-light settings as well,” said Ken Willette, a spokesman for the National Fire Protection Association. “So inherently, those are charged electrical appliances … there’s a shock hazard.”

Solar panels also frequently utilize the very space firefighters use for rooftop ventilation during structure fires and create potentially dangerous conditions for slips and falls.

“In some applications, the solar panels have covered 100 percent of the roof, which allows the firefighter no room to operate,” Willette continued. “That’s not what you want to have happen when you’re operating on a pitched roof.”


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Message 1432577 - Posted: 24 Oct 2013, 13:14:56 UTC

Keeping up to date....on costs anyway.

http://www.thedailybell.com/news-analysis/34693/Global-Warming--A-Dangerous-Insanity-on-Many-Levels

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Message 1432864 - Posted: 24 Oct 2013, 22:36:06 UTC - in response to Message 1432577.  
Last modified: 24 Oct 2013, 22:39:18 UTC

Keeping up to date....on costs anyway.

http://www.thedailybell.com/news-analysis/34693/Global-Warming--A-Dangerous-Insanity-on-Many-Levels

Note the jaundiced and highly ironic spin/angle put on a perfectly good story...


Interesting to see that so much is being done in spite of the sponsored denialist FUD. Also interesting is seeing who it is that is having to pay whilst the polluters continue to FUD and pollute and profit.

From an article elsewhere, the present cost of cleaning up 1 ton of CO2 from the atmosphere has been costed to be about £600 per ton...


Such is the game of news...

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Message 1432865 - Posted: 24 Oct 2013, 22:37:46 UTC

For a rather unusual angle:


Giant solar mirrors bring light to shady Norwegian town

A town in Norway has installed giant solar mirrors to bring some sunlight into the town in winter.

The mountains surrounding Rjukan put the town in the shade throughout the long Norwegian winter...



I'm sure some Scottish villages/towns hidden down deep valleys could benefit from that also...


A ray of hope?

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Message 1432868 - Posted: 24 Oct 2013, 22:41:38 UTC

From an article elsewhere, the present cost of cleaning up 1 ton of CO2 from the atmosphere has been costed to be about £600 per ton...

Martin, what methods do they apply to take this CO2 out from the atmosphere?

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Message 1438797 - Posted: 6 Nov 2013, 16:49:53 UTC

Concentrations of warming gases break record

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24833148
Interesting article, still left scratching ones head after reading it.

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Message 1443223 - Posted: 17 Nov 2013, 1:12:24 UTC - in response to Message 1438797.  
Last modified: 17 Nov 2013, 1:22:18 UTC

Concentrations of warming gases break record

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24833148
Interesting article, still left scratching ones head after reading it.

Thanks for that.


From that article:

... Carbon dioxide is the most important of the gases that they track, but only about half of the CO2 that's emitted by human activities remains in the atmosphere, with the rest being absorbed by the plants, trees, the land and the oceans.

Upsetting the balance

Since 1750, global average levels of CO2 in the atmosphere have increased to 141% of the pre-industrial concentration...

... "The laws of physics and chemistry are not negotiable," said Michel Jarraud.

"Greenhouse gases are what they are, the laws of physics show they can only contribute to warming the system, but parts of this heat may go in different places like the oceans for some periods of time," he said.

This view was echoed by Prof Piers Forster from the University of Leeds: "For the past decade or so the oceans have been sucking up this extra heat, meaning that surface temperatures have only increased slowly.

"Don't expect this state of affairs to continue though, the extra heat will eventually come out and bite us, so expect strong warming over the coming decades."




There lots that goes into the mix but however you might wish to stir the story, the question is only of how soon our industrial-scale CO2 pollution folly can continue.

The questions are only of how soon we get bitten and how hard.


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Message 1443225 - Posted: 17 Nov 2013, 1:19:34 UTC
Last modified: 17 Nov 2013, 1:25:37 UTC

An important part of any system is that of what feedback you get. Here is hope of one feedback mechanism that is just a click away that might give some positive help:


Avaaz: Stand with the Philippines

Why this is important

Last weekend’s Super Typhoon Haiyan made landfall in my family’s hometown. The devastation is so staggering, that I’m struggling to find words to describe how I feel about the losses and damages we have suffered from this.

... the superstorm was not just another natural disaster -- it was made stronger and more deadly by human-caused climate change. For too long, those countries with the greatest capacity to act and greatest responsibility for the problem have shirked their obligations to cut pollution as the science demands...

So I’ve taken a rare step as a public servant -- I’ve gone beyond the usual conventions... Together our voices can push the governments meeting at the UN climate summit happening now to ratchet up pollution controls...



Feedback such as this is just one small but important step to highlight the folly to our world of a few fossil fuels industrialists profiteering at the far greater expense of polluting the ENTIRE rest of the world.


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Message 1443557 - Posted: 18 Nov 2013, 0:30:19 UTC
Last modified: 18 Nov 2013, 0:49:36 UTC

There is no proof of that, and I would suggest a remark fuelled from emotion, but quite understandable in the circumstances.

Absolutely correct.

Global climate change swings like a pendulum do, but this pendulum also follows
a circle too during it's swing cycle. Actually what it's doing is responding to
the changes in axis of the Earth around it's poles plus the changes in tilt too.
Also, researchers have detected an other anomaly regarding planet Earth and not
just that of Global warming. The Earth's magnetic fields strength is weakening
and those odd areas on the planet where one can detect zero magnetic field
strengths are expanding. This results in less protection against the solar winds
and the result being that the polar regions will see a thinning of their ozone
layers. Nothing much to worry about as this occurs on a regular basis every
100 thousand years...if my memory serves me well. What is actually happening
here? is the Earth loosing it's magnetic field with a holocaust to follow?...
...No, looks like we're going through the natural motions of a polarity change
and one day magnetic North will be the old South and vice-versa.
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Message 1443568 - Posted: 18 Nov 2013, 0:43:37 UTC - in response to Message 1443344.  

There is no proof of that, and I would suggest a remark fuelled from emotion, but quite understandable in the circumstances.

There never is any proof on a single weather event, but a trend is very suspicious. Since this trend was predicted over a decade ago I think we are reaping what we have sown.
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Message 1443585 - Posted: 18 Nov 2013, 1:13:39 UTC - in response to Message 1443568.  
Last modified: 18 Nov 2013, 1:14:01 UTC

There never is any proof on a single weather event, but a trend is very suspicious. Since this trend was predicted over a decade ago I think we are reaping what we have sown.

Tell that to all those prehistoric animals and mammals that became extinct
due to the vast changes in Global climates mega-millions of years ago. Tell them
that they caused their own demise by creating excessive amounts of CO2 and the likes.
But of course we know they did not cause their own demise because of
this, no for most of these extinctions were the results of changes in the global
climates around those times many existed. Global warming leads rises in CO2,
global cooling leads reductions in CO2. Be patient, all will become quite clear
in years to come and man will be around to experience it and say, "What the hell
were these old'n day people worried about"?
The Kite Fliers

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Message 1443611 - Posted: 18 Nov 2013, 3:56:21 UTC - in response to Message 1443585.  

But of course we know they did not cause their own demise because of
this, no for most of these extinctions were the results of changes in the global
climates around those times many existed. Global warming leads rises in CO2,

Quite correct but we are being very creative.
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Message 1443666 - Posted: 18 Nov 2013, 10:06:36 UTC - in response to Message 1443611.  

But of course we know they did not cause their own demise because of
this, no for most of these extinctions were the results of changes in the global
climates around those times many existed. Global warming leads rises in CO2,

Quite correct but we are being very creative.

That's being rather kind, careless comes to mind here.


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Message 1452743 - Posted: 11 Dec 2013, 12:44:01 UTC
Last modified: 11 Dec 2013, 12:46:18 UTC

Instead of fracking the USA into oblivion, perhaps this is a much better hot solution to power the whole of the USA?


Yellowstone supervolcano 'even more colossal'

... A team found the cavern stretches for more than 90km (55 miles) and contains 200-600 cubic km of molten rock. ...



Go GEOTHERMAL!

Go clean and cool...

All on our only one planet,
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Message 1453085 - Posted: 12 Dec 2013, 3:07:31 UTC

I still think our time and money would be better spent finding ways to deal with and take advantage of climate change rather than trying to reverse or halt it. Climate change is inevitable whether or not we as humans are responsible for any or all of it. We can't go back to the way things were 100, 50 or even 5 years ago. It is more important that we find ways to slow the growth of the human population more than anything else. Otherwise we will soon discover that even with all our technology there are too many mouths to feed and not enough resources to make life bearable, let alone comfortable.
Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.
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Message 1453237 - Posted: 12 Dec 2013, 16:29:41 UTC - in response to Message 1335410.  
Last modified: 12 Dec 2013, 16:39:13 UTC

let's let in some fresh air to the discussion. Energy production and use will ultimately be dominated by economic concerns mixed with only partially accepted ecological predictions and realities. The answer is not to set one against the other but rather to invest public resources to bringing the cost down where economics considerations are minimized.

Currently solar and wind are too expensive as are electric automobiles. What we can do is foster materials research so that we can have:

    Cheaper and more dense batteries

    Cheaper solar panels so that I can use them as shingles when it comes time to replace my roof.

    Better ways to store energy for night time use.

    Upgraded building codes for new construction for energy efficiency (wall thickness, Attic insulation, roof orientation, HVAC seer standards)

and so on

As in all new fads and technologies--better and cheaper ways of living drive the new industries. When it is cheaper or physically more comfortable to move to a new technology or modality of lifestyle then there will be a rush to adopt. Psychological good feelings may play only a small role when it comes to the bottom line.

What do you all drive ??

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Message 1453249 - Posted: 12 Dec 2013, 16:58:42 UTC - in response to Message 1452743.  
Last modified: 12 Dec 2013, 17:10:23 UTC

When I worked for Pacific Gas and Electric in San Francisco, California. We had a fair percentage of our energy produced by the "Geysers". These were major polluters as the steam brought up a lot of sulphur. The Natural heat from the Earth should potentially be a good heat sink for heat pumps for heating and cooling. (so-called "geo-thermal"). I did advanced engineering work for General Electric back in the 60's on directly buried transformers for heat dissipation. The critical parameter was the thermal resistance of the surrounding soil. This became greater in a short time due to the heat drying out the soil.

The answer then was to drill down into the underground aquifers or deep wells to immerse the heat exchanger in water. This is what is being done now for residential HVAC. This results in systems that are maybe 800% efficient but at many times the cost of conventional HVAC systems that are now commonly available at A SEER rating of 16 (efficiency of about 500%).

So I would question whether these systems would ever pay for themselves over their useful lifetimes. Right now solar systems are running over a dollar a watt when all of the conversion to alternating current is accounted for. Maybe we can find a cheaply produced plastic that has a high efficiency of solar conversion so that I can buy solar shingles for my roof.

I would be glad to do it; but I would want it to break even vs the current price of a kilowatt-hour from the power company. Less CO-2 and less carbon . So we don't even have to argue over what a great benefit this may or may not be. We can take the high ground based on economics and common sense.

With the world being back on its collective keister economically right now--elaborate, crazy and expensive schemes of reducing carbon emissions will be resisted vigorously. Since our Government doesn't appear to understand or know what they should do about CO-2; they will probably try to tax it.
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Message 1454337 - Posted: 16 Dec 2013, 1:13:20 UTC
Last modified: 16 Dec 2013, 1:14:07 UTC

William, Thanks for that last post,It was very interesting. Here in NY state the frost line is 3 to 4 feet deep, And the ground temp at is around 54.F.
I can see drilling to an aquafier would cost a lot. But Id like to ask you if it would be feasible to bury a heat exchanger say 10 feet down in a sealed fluid filled vessel that can then transfer heat via coils to the surrounding soil?
Lets face it a back hoe digging a ten foot deep whole is way cheaper then drilling anyday.
[/quote]

Old James
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Message 1454381 - Posted: 16 Dec 2013, 4:30:20 UTC - in response to Message 1454337.  
Last modified: 16 Dec 2013, 4:31:31 UTC

James.

This would not work well as the vessel would dry out the ground thereby increasing the thermal resistance of the soil. Where this can be done economically is if you live near a large lake or a canal. The alternative is to drill way down until you hit water and then put your heat exchanger pipe down there--this can be very expensive.

In Florida my father used to pull water from the inland waterway and then discharge it back . When it came time to replace the unit the State would not let him do that because it might harm the fish. Funny thing though--fish always gathered there--they seemed to like the slightly warmer water. The dolphins would come and herd them into the seawall and then stun them with a blast of sound (Humans couldn't hear these frequencies)

Remember that a SEER of 16 ( which you can get in a regular unit) is very efficient and would probably pay for itself. My advice is not to get a heat pump in a cold climate. Since they run a high percentage of the time--I have seen many of them go out after maybe only 5 years. Get a 90% or more efficiency furnace and then a high efficiency air conditioner.
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