Is this guy for real?

Draghi says ECB could have handled it better

So how would you have handled the Euro Crisis Mr Draghi?

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In the mad rush to integrate with Europe, even though it was a fantastic engineering achievement, it's seems the taxpayer is continuously used as a cashcow.

HS1 is proving to be a failure, so that doesn't bode well for the HS2.

Chunnel link saddles UK with £4.8 billlion debt

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Danger Ahead! With the Wimbledon Finals tomorrow, the Olympics to come, followed by the Summer Recess of Parliament, it seems that due to these events, along with the continuing front page headlines of the banking scandal, the eurocrisis could end up on the back burner.

Just wondering what could slip through while everyone is concentrating on the events above?

Could something like this slip through without the electorate knowing about it until it's too late?

4th November 2009

"The last hope of blocking a new European constitution was snuffed out last night — the final kick in the teeth after Labour’s betrayal of Britain.

The Czech Republic became the last EU nation to sign the Lisbon Treaty, which will now become law.

Gordon Brown’s Labour broke a promise to give 60million Britons a say on it.

Now it’s too late as we are dragged screaming into a vastly more powerful European Union yesterday.

Today Tory leader David Cameron said: “We will make sure that this never, ever happens again.

“Never again should it be possible for a British government to transfer power to the European Union without the say of the British people in a referendum.”

The last remaining opposition to the new EU constitution ended when Czech president Vaclav Klaus was forced to sign the Lisbon Treaty.

His reluctant endorsement meant the document has been ratified by all 27 EU states and will become as good as LAW on December 1".

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On the brink of escalation of the crisis or a possible resolution? That is the question!

President tells Merkel to come clean

10 days & still nothing? Wonder what's been kept back from everyone.....

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Eyes Westward toward Spain - interest rate for government loans climb over 7%, which is said to be "unsustainable" for them in the long term, and Italy's are climbing. And (yet another) summit on the horizon....

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Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

This report may have some merit, but the question then is this: -

"Why are major cuts being made/thought of, while at the same time sending out megaloads of cash to Brussels & foreign aid?"

Rich pensioners should lose "benefits"

Spain, Italy & France buckling

Debt Crisis Live

"13.26 Sir Meryn King has been speaking on BBC's The World at One. He said he is concerned about the outlook for exports and that the eurozone crisis is the "biggest worry" he has about the outlook for the UK. He added that the crisis is a "great black cloud of uncertainty hanging over businesses all over the world".

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Nick, the interesting thing here is that Spain's budget is actually closer to the old style Euro targets than most of the other countries. Spain is staring at a severe recession. With the interest rates they are seeing, that recession will be converted to a depression without some help.

Guess what, in a depression, the Spainish budget deficit will get .... wait for it .... LARGER. Is that what Merkel wants? Is that what you think is best? I really didn't take you for a larger deficit sort of guy. Who knew?

[sarkie]
Yes of course that what she wants. Spain will then get ejected from the Euro. The Euro will be renamed "New-New-DM". The Spanish New-Potatoe will have a low value in relation the New-New-DM, so Spain will be a very cheap place for Germans to spread their towels on deck chairs...
[/sarkie]

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Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

Sirius, I hadn't noticed this before but sometimes the Euro sign looks a tad like the sickle of the old USSR flag....

As to pension changes -- I think one issue in Europe (Italy, Greece and Spain) is the approach to do it all at once.

It the US, the full pension age at the moment is 66 -- having risen in small steps from 65 in two month increments from 2005 to 2010. Currently it is set to rise in similar steps to 67 from 2021 to 2027. That's for 'full' pension -- though if you defer retirement past 66 today you get 'more full' pension payouts.

The reduced pension retirement age hasn't been increased from 62. But the reduction has increased with the changes. In 2005 if you retired at 62, you got a 20% reduction in pension (which stays in effect for the rest of your life). By 2010, that reduction moved to 25%. By 2027 that reduction moves to 30%. There are steps there (currently between 62 and 66 - but actually between 62 and 70).

It seems the austerity plans in southern Europe are for sudden changes (say from 62 to 65 in one jump). Personally I think that approach will cause some cases of sudden poverty -- if someone is 62 and retired a few months ago, suddenly they are without a pension? Doesn't sound a prudent government or economic solution to me.

By the way, in the US, if you are getting Social Security and have other income sources (say from deferred retirement plans or company defined benefit plans or simply dividend and capital gains), that Social Security pension becomes taxable to a degree. Not sure of the specifics there -- we'll encounter it ourselves when my wife turns 66 and starts collecting social security.

Chris -- so if you see an image of the Euro symbol in a mirror it might well look like the hammer/sickle <smile>

Some light Euro relief....



"Oh my, now I know why DeGaulle wanted you kept out of Europe"

On to sirius matters...

Merkel breaks law on ESM rescue.....

...we all know what happened the last time a German Chancellor ignored the German President.....

Confirmation that the "Eurozone" is one big corrupt cesspit....

Thief bigger than Diamond to run for PM for a 4th time

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The start of the annual European Olympics has commenced....

...our glorious leaders have assured us that they will be doing their best to see that it occurs annually for the next 20/30 years......

Further rioting in Madrid

One comment on the article is absolutely brilliant.....

"When you sup with the devil, best use a long spoon.

The devil in this case is the Euro and Spain walked into it with its eyes wide open. Unfortunately, the Euro group is a group run by bankers and politicians, for bankers and politicians and which benefits bankers and politicians.

Those who actually work to earn their daily bread are, in the eyes of the bankers and politicians, untermensch - no better than cattle or sheep and, in fact worse in some ways. You can always slaughter or sell cattle and sheep.

Spain, like many another European country, is finding out far too late that having a political system that mimics democracy but which is run solely by and for professional political maggots is hugely detrimental to the lives and happiness of ordinary people".

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The biggest "powderkeg" in Europe just waiting for the torch paper to be lit...

22 million unemployed within 4 years

“Britain is probably too small to play a role in negotiating this,” said Douglas McWilliams, chief executive of the think-tank. “No European leader is in a strong position to take the initiative because of the horrific euro crisis.

So this has to be a deal between the US and the Chinese in the first instance.”

I thought the Eurozone was meant to bypass regular assistance from the USA?

Looks like that idea is being blown away!

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Further rioting in Madrid

Goodness knows how they'd respond to financial strife's if their country had to
leave the Euro. This worry is most probably foremost on the minds of those inside
Brussels. Obviously too on the minds of those in Germany who have been getting
rather annoyed with Merkel for agreeing, without ministerial authority, to the
ECM supporting banks debts. These German ministers know how fanatical the
Brussels lot are in forming a United States of Europe so will go to any costs
to protect the one fundamental thing, that should it fail, bring the dream of
this big States to an end. Yes, protecting the Euro to such an extent that, if
Germany isn't careful, could suck out a serious amount of Germany's wealth.
What the Spanish people need to realise is that these austerity measures being
fostered upon them is their life saver!! If they force their government into
abandoning these measures then it's curtains for Spain in a very-very big way...
....you mark my words here.

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The Kite Fliers

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Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

Concept of the US and China teaming up to bail out the Eurozone -- file under mind boggle.

Concept of the US and China teaming up to bail out the Eurozone -- file under mind boggle.

Baz'...
Will America want to commit itself to a bale-out package knowing that
it will soon have more financial problems at home to deal with. You notice
that - that article mentioned worries about deflation, now I warned against
this event in previous postings in these message boards. Deflation is going
to be a fact for the west to have to deal with, a fact confirmed when some
German bonds went negative at some stage during yesterday. If America feels
confident enough to raise a bale-out package, if needed, then it will have
some very unsavoury strings attached to it. Firstly, loans to be backed by
ECM members gold reserves, and secondary, import tariffs on American goods
to be reduced but no reduction on tariffs applied to ECM goods imported into
America.

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The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

The concern about deflation is interesting given all the concern voiced on these boards about hyperinflation several months ago. That alone suggests the experts are not along in being clueless here.

The Fed has US concerns first -- plus timing due to the election here. In their monthly meeting there was a developing mood for more 'easing' -- but regarding timing -- no consensus. At a guess, the US won't do its own easing until the fall.

Given domestic politics there is precious little the US can be seen to be doing regarding Euro bail out support.

Unlike WWII with the US providing Lend-Lease to help with the war effort, I can't see the US bailing out Europe for several reasons: -

1: Too expensive as it has it's own financial worries

2: Should it do so, IMV, that will only aggravate the situation in that the leaders of the Eurozone will not get to the core of the financial crisis in Europe as they will think the bailout will underpin the Euro itself, which wil lead to...

3: A massive increase in unemployment throughtout Europe as tougher austerity measures would have to be imposed to clear the initial debts alongside the repayments of the US bailout, which leads to...

4: Massive unrest throughout Europe as the "consumers" having no money, which in turn will eventually come back & bite the US in the ass as their economy will shrink pretty quick, leading to...

5 Worldwide depression.

Whichever way one looks at this situation, the outcome is not going to be very pleasant!

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I would hope that austerity measures be phased in so to not be self-defeating. That doesn't seem to be what's been going on -- the austerity measures put in place have dented economies (and revenues) and have increased debt -- in large part because of the 'short sharp blow to the head' ideology behind them.

The new normal is coming.

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The concern about deflation is interesting given all the concern voiced on these boards about hyperinflation several months ago. That alone suggests the experts are not along in being clueless here.

The Fed has US concerns first -- plus timing due to the election here. In their monthly meeting there was a developing mood for more 'easing' -- but regarding timing -- no consensus. At a guess, the US won't do its own easing until the fall.

Given domestic politics there is precious little the US can be seen to be doing regarding Euro bail out support.

Hyperinflation is still a concern, Baz'; as will be evident once countries
economies finally turn the corner. I suspect this phase of events will start
to manifest itself sometime after 2016 and look to those countries who's
currency has become debouched via excessive debt. The Euro looks a prime
candidate here so countries under this currency need to take care. Providing
the dollar stays the preferred world currency then America will avoid excessive
inflation. The UK needs to keep it's government debt under control else the
value of the pound will deteriorate to a level where serious inflation could
easily occur. What has bought about this sudden laps into deflation is the
continuing deterioration in commodity prices bought about by the fact that
all the worlds now falling under recessions. This can't be blamed on
Europe alone since the BRIC countries home consumption did not keep pace
with their exports. Without home consumption support most of these BRIC
countries will suffer from hard landings once their exports start to falter.
I mentioned this fact regarding home consumption with respect to China's
economy in a previous post on one of these message boards. I made a comparison
of China's growing economy against that of America's after the great depression
of the 1930's. Here I stated that what sustained America's phenomenal growth
after this period was the support it's home consumption created. China is
struggling to create a level of home consumption sufficient to keep it's
growth on track. There is every chance that China may not achieve the worldly
status everyone is expecting of it if it fails to basically Americanise it's
population into spending....we shall see. But now that it's clear that the
BRICS are failing too this has taken away any support to commodity prices so
they will continue to trend lower. Deflation is now confirmed as the next
phase to this recession/depression. Yet had the BRICS managed to boost home
consumption then this will most probably have stopped commodity prices from
falling further so halting any chance of deflation occurring. China has only
just released it's current GDP figures showing home consumption markedly
falling off. So until these figures were released no one could really foretell
that deflation was around the corner.

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The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.