That is a question that everyone should be considering Barry. Whichever way you look at it, it's going to be one that will cause a lot of dissention.

However, with the increase of retired people living longer as well as the massive unemployment throughout Europe, it's going to be a question that will arise more often than not.

Maybe this will be the start of the world returning to some sort of decency.....

Howzat! The Umpires have spoken

Edit: While composing the post below, found this: -

Victorian Levels of Inequality

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Spain downgraded

Is Italy about to require bailouts?

IMF approves Irish Loan

With all these bailouts, I'm left wondering: - Just when will the cupboard become bare?

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1238412

We are not ALONE Nick

"He was never distracted by the tyranny of the present, and was one of the last politicians prepared to resign or to refuse office on a point of principle or out of loyalty to friends". Can't see any of the muppets doing that today

"Do not be surprised if in due course Mr Duncan Smith were to follow the example of Enoch Powell and resign over the Coalition’s stance on Europe". Very much doubt that.

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The problem in the past, & it seems continuing today, is that "rivers of Blood" speech. It was that speech that condemned him.

I did not post that link to "home in" on that speech, but what IDS has "homed in" on with regards to Europe.

Powell was an exceptional politician & most of his speeches hit the nail on the head.

I can't help but think had he been alive today & a politician, it would be no stretch of one's imagination to realise, he would have been voted in as Prime Minister.

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Is Italy about to require bailouts?

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The Kite Fliers

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Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

"The Biggest & Nastiest Banker of All"

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Sirius, I see things running about this way.

1) We've increased the age one *can* live to with optimal health care.

2) We've begun to consider the age one *should* work to given the above.

3) But we lack employment opportunities -- these days, that lack of employment opportunities is falling on the young -- though in Europe, the number of young has been (relatively anyway) reduced over the past two decades.

4) If, as a result of shrinking economies, we no longer can provide optimal health care except to the more well off (financial and health), the *average* age that people live to will be significantly less than that which people could live to with optimal care.

5) That increased mortality will affect the *poor* elderly and the poor generally (those who depend most on the social safety net).

6) That increased mortality will reduce (eventually) the pressure on government budgets.

A widespread financial crash will do these things (already in Greece access to life saving drugs is seriously constrained as a 'things to come' picture).

The thing is, a widespread financial crash is also likely to reduce consumer spending as well (not just in the US), which will *extend* the length and breadth of the dislocation. In fact, in the US to some degree this has already happened, in response to insecurity, consumer spending has declined, people are carrying less debt, AND the number of jobs dependent on consumer spending is adversely affected both in the US and in the exporting countries.

Perhaps another way to look at this is that in the US since the Reagan years, we've been living in an ongoing Ponzi-like scheme in the private sector -- housing values and stock values skyrocketed. People spend that 'funny money' or borrowed against those artificially high values.

Merkel tells Europe to "Get Real" OMG, I agree with her!

Greece on edge Too far gone to recover?

As for the Bank of England handing over £140 billion to the banks.....

They say "Thanks for the extra bonuses".

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p.s. If anyone wants to comment, can we please have less irreverent talk about muppets on a superficial level, and some rather more serious points of view on the financial implications. I would love to hear from a Chartered accountant or professional financial advisor, or senior banker as to what they think.

From a so-called educated person, that comment is highly disappointing. It's exactly the view that politicians have of the electorate.

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can we please have less irreverent talk about muppets on a superficial level

The Mekon can't have it both ways.

Rather contradictory, wouldn't you say old chap?

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Borrowing costs adds pressure

One glaring issue I have with all these bailouts, cash injections etc is "where is the funds coming from?"

If Europe has all this cash available, why not have the ECB itself use these funds to provide business'es directly to promote recovery?

Continuing to hand it over to the banks will only drag out the lack of growth as they just will not lend it to the right people, & just use it to prop themselves up, & at the same time, continue with their lavish bonuses.

Had this been done at the start of the crisis, I'm pretty sure that Europe would not be in the mess they currently are.

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Merkel tells Europe to "Get Real" OMG, I agree with her!

GOSH!! that wont please France, they wont to spend-spend-spend hoping that
a Euro bank will pay the bills when, eventually, she can't raise any more money
in the bond market..
No Euro bank will mean France will have to adopt austerity measures now or sink
like Greece and Spain. Austerity measure in France will lead to riots in the
streets so I wounder if Germany will eventually have to underwrite France's
spending plans?

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The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

Hmmnn..let's see...

Franco-Prussian war ended in 1871 with the defeat of France
1914-1918 France all but defeated & took allies to assist
1940 France defeated & again took allies to assist

Maybe this time around European War III will be won by Germany without firing a shot....

Germany 4 France 2 & all done with $$$$$$$$$$$$$ this time around.

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Banks to support funding

Of course they're going to support it - why shouldn't they as it's more free cash.

It's been stated that "it is NO Guarantee that the banks will restart lending". SO why give it to them?

It's just an underhanded way to prop them up, so that they can continue on their merry way & stuff the customers & country.

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And Germany's previous actions were so good for the rest of Europe too. Perhaps a lesson there to be absorbed Sirius?

Hmmnn..let's see...

Franco-Prussian war ended in 1871 with the defeat of France
1914-1918 France all but defeated & took allies to assist
1940 France defeated & again took allies to assist

Maybe this time around European War III will be won by Germany without firing a shot....

Germany 4 France 2 & all done with $$$$$$$$$$$$$ this time around.

Sirius, the Teapublicans over on this side of the pond also are rooting for a deep recession, they believe that those damaged by a deep recession (extended or not) don't vote for them anyway and further, that the very wealthy (which you appear to favor) would be well insulated.

It's just an underhanded way to prop them up, so that they can continue on their merry way & stuff the customers & country.

Sigh ....

A sigh of agreement or dismay?

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Sirius, the Teapublicans over on this side of the pond also are rooting for a deep recession, they believe that those damaged by a deep recession (extended or not) don't vote for them anyway and further, that the very wealthy (which you appear to favor) would be well insulated.

What left field did that come from?

The only thing I agree with is that someone has to be at the bottom & someone at the top, as without that hierarchy, the whole thing would collapse like a pack of cards.

What I do disagree with is the ever widening gap between the top dogs & those on the lower rungs of the ladder.

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Sirius, what effect do you think heavy duty austerity and concomitant deep recession is going to have on the widening gap?

What I do disagree with is the ever widening gap between the top dogs & those on the lower rungs of the ladder.

Sirius, what effect do you think heavy duty austerity and concomitant deep recession is going to have on the widening gap?

What I do disagree with is the ever widening gap between the top dogs & those on the lower rungs of the ladder.

It's going to get wider. The point is that carrying on as we are is only building up serious trouble for the future. The Euro needs to die a quick death.

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