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Message 1199838 - Posted: 25 Feb 2012, 23:43:13 UTC
Last modified: 25 Feb 2012, 23:48:40 UTC

So then why Irish extremists were exploding bombs all over London for decades while scots act not too much extremely?? Before the modern legal system functioning they were both legally english colonies I guess (considering welsh is completely absorbed into english). And maybe the colonies treated little differently some how so different reactions from them. It is just distant observer's light conclusion.

Maybe 15 years ago I began to see strange things that in World Football cup I see english flag team then scottish flag team competing probably there is irish flag team was present in case if they were evaluated. All 3 were competing as different international teams.


Orgil, this thread should be about Scotland, and the effects of it's possible independence from the Union. The question of Irish independence and actions by the Provisional and Official IRA is a very long and complex issue, and will need to have it's own thread if anyone wishes to dscuss that further. But be warned, emotions will run high there, so I won't be getting involved.

But you raise some interesting questions, and I'm sure people would be happy to answer them elsewhere.



That is interesting. Yes I understand that even here there are people from all 4 different federal members possibly write or read this thread so some questions are too hot to deal with.
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Message 1200293 - Posted: 27 Feb 2012, 9:17:09 UTC - in response to Message 1199838.  
Last modified: 27 Feb 2012, 9:19:49 UTC

So then why Irish extremists were exploding bombs all over London for decades while scots act not too much extremely??

That is interesting. Yes I understand that even here there are people from all 4 different federal members possibly write or read this thread so some questions are too hot to deal with.

I think you mean 5 if you are going to include the Republic of Ireland. But in any case one thing will not change if, or if not, Scotland get independence. They will still have a national football team called Scotland. Who often do pretty good.

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Message 1210452 - Posted: 26 Mar 2012, 20:54:32 UTC
Last modified: 26 Mar 2012, 20:54:56 UTC

Ooops....Mr Cameron, you're going to have to do better than this......

Scots Win Independence.....

...on the Internet at least.
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Message 1210491 - Posted: 26 Mar 2012, 22:16:34 UTC - in response to Message 1210482.  

Now now, behave young man, tell the whole story .... You need to stop reading the Daily Mail or you'll get biased !

Plans to let Wales go it alone with ‘.wales’ and ‘.cymru’ have also been given the green light.


Ah yes, but this is the Scotland thread, the Welsh should start their own...:)
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Message 1210860 - Posted: 28 Mar 2012, 4:08:23 UTC - in response to Message 1200293.  
Last modified: 28 Mar 2012, 4:13:53 UTC


I think you mean 5 if you are going to include the Republic of Ireland. But in any case one thing will not change if, or if not, Scotland get independence. They will still have a national football team called Scotland. Who often do pretty good.


If scotland has some social and economic advantages and now actively seeking independance then it is very clear condition in addition of their long term political independance aims.

BTW how is the Skets language usage rate there locally are there any efforts to use the original language at any rate of official documentations?

There is big example of old jewish/hebrew language restoration and enforcement practice took place in israel just few decades ago.

For example after WWII russian political pressure in mongolia increased sharply so they enforced us to lose our original abc/alphabet and to use cyrillic but after 90s when russian empire collapsed the original alphabet restoration efforts began and still going on.
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Message 1210883 - Posted: 28 Mar 2012, 4:49:21 UTC - in response to Message 1210860.  


I think you mean 5 if you are going to include the Republic of Ireland. But in any case one thing will not change if, or if not, Scotland get independence. They will still have a national football team called Scotland. Who often do pretty good.


If scotland has some social and economic advantages and now actively seeking independance then it is very clear condition in addition of their long term political independance aims.

What most Scots see is that most of the oil and gas is in Scottish waters, but actually most of it is around the Shetland Isles far to the north. But Shetland is closer to Norway than it is to Scotland, and the culture of Shetland is more Scandinavian thn Scottish. The local politics has been firmly Liberal for many years and they see themselves closer politically to London than Edinburgh.


BTW how is the Skets language usage rate there locally are there any efforts to use the original language at any rate of official documentations?

There is big example of old jewish/hebrew language restoration and enforcement practice took place in israel just few decades ago.

For example after WWII russian political pressure in mongolia increased sharply so they enforced us to lose our original abc/alphabet and to use cyrillic but after 90s when russian empire collapsed the original alphabet restoration efforts began and still going on.


Very few Scots understand their own language, a form of Gaelic, different from Irish, Welsh and Breton forms. They don't, for instance, ensure that all teachers know Gaelic, as is required in Wales.
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Message 1211041 - Posted: 28 Mar 2012, 13:49:11 UTC
Last modified: 28 Mar 2012, 13:55:30 UTC

Recently I watched Anonymous movie about Shakespeire and kind of learnt that maybe 400 years ago scotish man was actually appointed as a king of britain although not sure because whole movie was some kind of fictionolized historic event thing.

So there is historic friction between scots vs english plus irish vs english maybe not scots vs irish. Interesting history twists mostly made of blood, tear and deaths I guess.
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Message 1223238 - Posted: 25 Apr 2012, 18:24:59 UTC

If they go independent, they might have problems with their credit rating.....

Scots risk credit rating
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Message 1223280 - Posted: 25 Apr 2012, 21:20:15 UTC - in response to Message 1211041.  

Sort of like the historic friction between Russians and Ukrainians, or Latvians, or Estonians, or Lithuanians or Poles, not to mention the friction between the Russians and the Turks or various peoples near the Caucasas.



Recently I watched Anonymous movie about Shakespeire and kind of learnt that maybe 400 years ago scotish man was actually appointed as a king of britain although not sure because whole movie was some kind of fictionolized historic event thing.

So there is historic friction between scots vs english plus irish vs english maybe not scots vs irish. Interesting history twists mostly made of blood, tear and deaths I guess.


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Message 1224331 - Posted: 28 Apr 2012, 11:00:51 UTC - in response to Message 1223280.  
Last modified: 28 Apr 2012, 11:12:55 UTC

Sort of like the historic friction between Russians and Ukrainians, or Latvians, or Estonians, or Lithuanians or Poles, not to mention the friction between the Russians and the Turks or various peoples near the Caucasas.



Recently I watched Anonymous movie about Shakespeire and kind of learnt that maybe 400 years ago scotish man was actually appointed as a king of britain although not sure because whole movie was some kind of fictionolized historic event thing.

So there is historic friction between scots vs english plus irish vs english maybe not scots vs irish. Interesting history twists mostly made of blood, tear and deaths I guess.



And you seem to forgot the most obvious one even in this forum which is canadians vs americans! ha ha

I am almost sure that every nationals on this planet manage to make a worst enemy out of their neighbour.


On some youtube pages americans and canadians fight a lot worse than traditional battlezones like israel vs arabs etc's. Because before seeing that battle I even did not imagine such kind of hostility that on TV everything is so perfect but on some internet pages totally different world exists between them.
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Message 1228390 - Posted: 6 May 2012, 18:52:32 UTC
Last modified: 6 May 2012, 19:16:01 UTC

I assumed that Scotland was totally confident about being able to stand on
it's own two feet once it acquired it's independence. Seems not to be the case,
Scotland's Transport minister Keith Brown pressing all quarters of the UK to
promote the financial benefits to having HST2. What financial benefits I ask?
None to England, None to Wales definitely none to Northern Ireland so financial
benefits to who then, er Scotland!! He states primarily that It will cut two
hours off the travelling time from Edinburgh to London. Didn't think anyone in
Scotland, after independence, actually needed or wonted to go back down to London
for any reason. Ah? I do wounder if the Scots still think they will, after
independence, keep Scottish representation active at Westminster. So having a
fast rail link would suit them down to the ground for the purpose of servicing
their seat in London. Another reason for pushing HST2 would be that it will cost
Scotland nothing to finance the Scottish link as their portion of the finance would
have to be provided via the UK tax payer then passed on to Scotland in the form
of an extra grant. But, what happens if Scotland gains their independence before
it is decided if HST2 will go further than Birmingham? Well if it does finally
go further than Birmingham then if Scotland wishes to be linked to it I don't
think they will be able to afford it or even justify the cost to it's electorate....
...for Scotland would now have to finance it....no wounder the
Scottish Transport minister is trying to whip it all up now.
Strange too that he kept it off his his agenda till after the GLC elections, perhaps
worried in case one of the lead runners to get in might use anti-HST2 slogans
to gain extra votes and make it harder for the UK Government to force HST2
upon us.
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Message 1228398 - Posted: 6 May 2012, 19:16:48 UTC - in response to Message 1228390.  

Yep, who said the Jocks were dumb!

A better idea would be to rebuild Hardrian's Wall, lot cheaper than the HST2 & that way, the trains could turnaround at Newcastle. Quicker journey times for the rest of us....:)
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Message 1228401 - Posted: 6 May 2012, 19:26:51 UTC - in response to Message 1228398.  

Yep, who said the Jocks were dumb!

A better idea would be to rebuild Hardrian's Wall, lot cheaper than the HST2 & that way, the trains could turnaround at Newcastle. Quicker journey times for the rest of us....:)

They do if they vote for independence..
By the time they get independence only the second tier of ECU membership will
be open to them. No Euro so higher interest rates throughout their finance
system also will have to have their own currency. Will they bring back the
Sceat and Bawbee?



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Message 1228728 - Posted: 7 May 2012, 17:44:12 UTC
Last modified: 7 May 2012, 17:51:37 UTC

It does make commercial sense for the future

Does anyone actually know what significant commercial gains will be acieved?... Chris...

Why the Scots are getting their Sporrans in a twist

Most probably wont a fast rail line to link them to the Euro express down south.
Then they can get to Brussels fairly quickly. But as I suspect, Scotland will be
a member of the second tier of ECU countries so may find that their operational
center is not in Brussels but possibly down in Italy or Spain. A fast rail link
would not be so practical then, so if this were to be the case then there's no
need to link-in Scotland to the UK's HST2 planned rail network.
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Message 1228731 - Posted: 7 May 2012, 17:46:59 UTC - in response to Message 1228605.  

When you compare Britain's railways to others in the world, particularly the continental and Japanese ones, we are way behind in the stakes, hence the proposal for HS2. It does make commercial sense for the future, but there is plenty of opposition from the NIMBY's over the route. But it is all so many years in the future.

High Speed 2 (HS2) is a planned high-speed railway between London and the Midlands, Northern England, and potentially at a later stage the central belt of Scotland, with trains running up to 250mph.

Phase 1 - London-Birmingham 2026
Phase 2 - Extension to Leeds & Manchester 2030
Phase 3 - Scotland - Edinburgh & Glasgow (no date set)


Why the Scots are getting their Sporrans in a twist I don't know. It has not been agreed in principle yet that HS2 will be extended to Scotland, and even if it is, we could be talking another 25 years yet.



perhaps the Scots are a bit concerned about a 200+mph train running through a herd of sheep?
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Message 1228732 - Posted: 7 May 2012, 18:04:37 UTC

perhaps the Scots are a bit concerned about a 200+mph train running through a herd of sheep?

One of the things that must be on the Scots minds is cost. If they can get the UK
government to commit themselves now to HST2 plus a link to Edinburgh as well
the Scots may be able to wrangle the cost of the Edinburgh link out of the
Government now. If so they could build their link soon and then just wait for
the other parts of HST2 to link up to them. If the Government drags it's heels
on HST2 and before a final development decision is made Scotland gains it's
independents then the Scott's will have to finance the whole of their HST2 link.
As I see it, Scotland badly needs this HST2 to go ahead fully but really do
not wont to have to subscribe to any of it's cost...and why?...because it
would not be able to afford it without taking on a huge debt to finance it with.
Big government debt means higher taxation to finance it with. One thing the
Scott's don't wish to do else their population will say, "What the hell have we
gained by going independent".



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Message 1228829 - Posted: 7 May 2012, 22:12:39 UTC - in response to Message 1228778.  

2 hours quicker from London to Edinburgh is significant. People will still do business with Scotland, Independent or not. I'd be happy if it breaks even, but I don't really care if we have it or not. On balance I think we should, but I'm not campaigning for it.

benefits less

Union view

overview

I would ignore the unions views since they've never shown any proven understanding
of business. To them HST2 is an ideal source/recruiting ground for union memberships.
To them HST2 is another tool to use to flex it's might through via
strike actions, to them another London Underground. If the unions consider HST2
a worthwhile investment then why don't they go ahead and put some of their
money into it.
The figures that the government produce in support of HS2 are I suspect the
same ones from the model used to cost/benefit the Euro-tunnel fiasco. A lesson
should have been learnt here, if business does not wish to invest in the
project that's because the profit return is not there. If HS2 gets built it
will eventually be sold off for 20p in the pound. It will have to be sold this
is Brussels policy - all government held industries must eventually be put in the hands
of the private sector. If at any time after HS2 was built we were to
suddenly require a IMF loan the IMF would make this HS2 sale a requirement
under the loan and I've mentioned in the past why the IMF do this??????????????




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Message 1229092 - Posted: 8 May 2012, 12:52:12 UTC

Can you point me to any facts about that, as I'm not sure you are correct there.

Well since HS2 will not be able to be run profitably it will fall foul of
the ECU's policy on state aid given by Governments to any industry. This is
the problem the Royal Mail is facing even though here Brussels is concerned
that the Royal Mail isn't yet fit for sale.

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Message 1236490 - Posted: 25 May 2012, 12:08:17 UTC

If the polls are to believed then it might not happen.

Just one in three Scots wants independence from Britain, poll shows
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Message 1236492 - Posted: 25 May 2012, 12:12:18 UTC - in response to Message 1229092.  

Seems to me that an increasing number of folks are asking Brussels, 'who died and left you king'


This is the problem the Royal Mail is facing even though here Brussels is concerned that the Royal Mail isn't yet fit for sale.

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