Are we ATI Guys being got at?

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Claggy
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Message 1095224 - Posted: 9 Apr 2011, 9:58:12 UTC - in response to Message 1095010.  

According to one of jravin's recent tasks, he's running AP r456, that app was released on 11 Sept 2010, there's been Six Months of development since then, Update it to r516,

And you might want to try running Cat 11.2, that has the older SDK_2.3

Claggy


AH-HA! That explains it - I am a dummy...I went to Lunatic's Download page and pulled these off - I assumed they were current.

I will update later this weekend after I wash the egg off my face.

BAH!

I will go and get Cat 11.2 off AMD/ATI website.
AND: will Cat 11.3 uninstall cleanly, or is there something else I must do to get rid of it completely?

Once you're got AP r516 installed, before you try Cat 10.2, try only running on one GPU, and report times.

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Message 1095232 - Posted: 9 Apr 2011, 11:11:36 UTC - in response to Message 1095224.  

According to one of jravin's recent tasks, he's running AP r456, that app was released on 11 Sept 2010, there's been Six Months of development since then, Update it to r516,

And you might want to try running Cat 11.2, that has the older SDK_2.3

Claggy


AH-HA! That explains it - I am a dummy...I went to Lunatic's Download page and pulled these off - I assumed they were current.

I will update later this weekend after I wash the egg off my face.

BAH!

I will go and get Cat 11.2 off AMD/ATI website.
AND: will Cat 11.3 uninstall cleanly, or is there something else I must do to get rid of it completely?

Once you're got AP r516 installed, before you try Cat 10.2, try only running on one GPU, and report times.

Claggy



According to one of jravin's recent tasks, he's running AP r456, that app was released on 11 Sept 2010, there's been Six Months of development since then, Update it to r516,

And you might want to try running Cat 11.2, that has the older SDK_2.3

Claggy


AH-HA! That explains it - I am a dummy...I went to Lunatic's Download page and pulled these off - I assumed they were current.

I will update later this weekend after I wash the egg off my face.

BAH!

I will go and get Cat 11.2 off AMD/ATI website.
AND: will Cat 11.3 uninstall cleanly, or is there something else I must do to get rid of it completely?

Once you're got AP r516 installed, before you try Cat 10.2, try only running on one GPU, and report times.

Claggy



I think you meant, before you try Cat 11.2, Claggy, not, Cat 10.2. Having said that, one of the reasons I'm reluctant to even try and edit the ATI app, and guess where it is supposed to go, is because I'm using Cat 10.9 drivers....with drivers after 10.9, the frame-rates in games dropped to about half on my 4890 and since this PC is an 'all-rounder' (even if it is at present, a low-spec one, it does all I want it to do)thats not good. I know that quite a few 4800 series owners, have found that the later Catalyst drivers only seem to benefit the higher end 5000 series upwards - in games, there is just too big a drop in fps to warrant the newer drivers being installed, irrespective of any 'benefits'. When all is said and done though, I still think the guys at KWSN and Raistmer have done an incredible job in putting together apps that will at least allow ATI GPUs a chance to do meaningful S@H work. For myself, I'll patiently await a 'self-installer'! lol



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Message 1095235 - Posted: 9 Apr 2011, 11:36:06 UTC - in response to Message 1095232.  
Last modified: 9 Apr 2011, 11:37:14 UTC

I think you meant, before you try Cat 11.2, Claggy, not, Cat 10.2.

Yes, i meant Cat 11.2, i keep doing that typo, at Lunatics i can just edit it any time, here we're limited to an hour, and i'm too late.

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Message 1095247 - Posted: 9 Apr 2011, 12:35:06 UTC

For HD48xxx apps should work with Cat 10.xx (xx need to be refined) too. At least, with older SDKs.

But I'm afraid Cat 10.xx users will never recive "self-installer" cause we don't intend to include SDK in installer binary and older Catalyst drivers require SDK to be installed separately for OpenCL runtime...
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Message 1095257 - Posted: 9 Apr 2011, 13:11:12 UTC

For MB I am already using r177 - MB_6.10_win_SSE3_ATI_HD5_r177.exe - I assumed the "HD5" meant it was for HD 5xxx cards - is that wrong? - and Multibeam_Kernels.cl.

Is that right?

I will try to upgrade to AP 516 today.
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Message 1095259 - Posted: 9 Apr 2011, 13:12:50 UTC - in response to Message 1095247.  

For HD48xxx apps should work with Cat 10.xx (xx need to be refined) too. At least, with older SDKs.

But I'm afraid Cat 10.xx users will never recive "self-installer" cause we don't intend to include SDK in installer binary and older Catalyst drivers require SDK to be installed separately for OpenCL runtime...

That's the same for both camps. Both NV and ATI have minimum driver requirements for various iterations of software support - and there I'm using the word "driver" loosely and broadly, to include both the ATI APP case where the OpenCL stuff is packaged with the graphics driver, and the older case where it's packaged separately and has to be derived from the SDK.

It's not usual for software installers, anywhere in the IT industry, to include hardware driver installion - except in the case of software bundled with, and designed to be used only with, specific hardware purchases.

On the other hand, it is normal - again, across the IT industry - to package runtime support files for the development package in use into software installers. Compiler and other development tool vendors specifically distinguish between redistributable runtime files (usually royalty free) and developer tools (expensive) in their licensing conditions.

That's how it is with NV - cudart and cufft are redistributables, whether by Berkeley or Lunatics: but driver installation requires the end user to manage their own hardware, and accept NVidia's licence terms. I don't see why the distinction should be any less clear for ATI.
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Message 1095267 - Posted: 9 Apr 2011, 14:01:41 UTC - in response to Message 1095257.  

For MB I am already using r177 - MB_6.10_win_SSE3_ATI_HD5_r177.exe - I assumed the "HD5" meant it was for HD 5xxx cards - is that wrong? - and Multibeam_Kernels.cl.

Is that right?

I will try to upgrade to AP 516 today.


you use corrrect version but it should not take >10 (actually even less) % of CPU...
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Message 1095269 - Posted: 9 Apr 2011, 14:15:47 UTC - in response to Message 1095267.  

you use corrrect version but it should not take >10 (actually even less) % of CPU...


Any idea what might cause this?

Here's my current app_info file for reference - have I done something obviously stupid?

<app_info>
<app>
<name>setiathome_enhanced</name>
</app>
<file_info>
<name>AK_v8b_win_x64_SSE3.exe</name>
<executable/>
</file_info>
<app_version>
<app_name>setiathome_enhanced</app_name>
<version_num>603</version_num>
<platform>windows_intelx86</platform>
<file_ref>
<file_name>AK_v8b_win_x64_SSE3.exe</file_name>
<main_program/>
</file_ref>
</app_version>
<app_version>
<app_name>setiathome_enhanced</app_name>
<version_num>603</version_num>
<platform>windows_x86_64</platform>
<file_ref>
<file_name>AK_v8b_win_x64_SSE3.exe</file_name>
<main_program/>
</file_ref>
</app_version>
<app>
<name>astropulse_v505</name>
</app>
<file_info>
<name>ap_5.05r409_SSE.exe</name>
<executable/>
</file_info>
<app_version>
<app_name>astropulse_v505</app_name>
<version_num>505</version_num>
<platform>windows_intelx86</platform>
<file_ref>
<file_name>ap_5.05r409_SSE.exe</file_name>
<main_program/>
</file_ref>
</app_version>
<app_version>
<app_name>astropulse_v505</app_name>
<version_num>505</version_num>
<platform>windows_x86_64</platform>
<file_ref>
<file_name>ap_5.05r409_SSE.exe</file_name>
<main_program/>
</file_ref>
</app_version>

<app>
<name>setiathome_enhanced</name>
</app>
<file_info>
<name>MB_6.10_win_SSE3_ATI_HD5_r177.exe</name>
<executable/>
</file_info>
<file_info>
<name>MultiBeam_Kernels.cl</name>
<executable/>
</file_info>


<app_version>
<app_name>setiathome_enhanced</app_name>
<version_num>610</version_num>
<platform>windows_intelx86</platform>
<avg_ncpus>0.05</avg_ncpus>
<max_ncpus>0.05</max_ncpus>
<plan_class>ati13ati</plan_class>
<cmdline>-period_iterations_num 2 -instances_per_device 1</cmdline>
<flops>20987654321</flops>
<file_ref>
<file_name>MB_6.10_win_SSE3_ATI_HD5_r177.exe</file_name>
<main_program/>
</file_ref>
<file_ref>
<file_name>MultiBeam_Kernels.cl</file_name>
<copy_file/>
</file_ref>
<coproc>
<type>ATI</type>
<count>1</count>
</coproc>
</app_version>

<app>
<name>astropulse_v505</name>
</app>
<file_info>
<name>ap_5.06_win_x86_SSE2_OpenCL_ATI_r456.exe</name>
<executable/>
</file_info>
<file_info>
<name>AstroPulse_Kernels.cl</name>
<executable/>
</file_info>
<app_version>
<app_name>astropulse_v505</app_name>
<version_num>506</version_num>
<avg_ncpus>0.01</avg_ncpus>
<max_ncpus>0.01</max_ncpus>
<plan_class>ati13ati</plan_class>
<cmdline>-ffa_block 8192 -ffa_block_fetch 2048</cmdline>
<coproc>
<type>ATI</type>
<count>1</count>
</coproc>
<flops>15987654321</flops>

<file_ref>
<file_name>ap_5.06_win_x86_SSE2_OpenCL_ATI_r456.exe</file_name>
<main_program/>
</file_ref>
<file_ref>
<file_name>AstroPulse_Kernels.cl</file_name>
<copy_file/>
</file_ref>
</app_version>



</app_info>

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Message 1095273 - Posted: 9 Apr 2011, 14:32:37 UTC - in response to Message 1095269.  
Last modified: 9 Apr 2011, 14:35:50 UTC

You could try reducing the <cmdline>-ffa_block 8192 -ffa_block_fetch 2048</cmdline> settings, try halving them both, the default settings caused screen lag on my GTX460/HD5770,
i'm using <cmdline>-ffa_block 6144 -ffa_block_fetch 1536</cmdline> now, but you're got 4 slower GPU's all trying to share the same bandwidth.

Claggy
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Message 1095274 - Posted: 9 Apr 2011, 14:34:05 UTC - in response to Message 1095269.  
Last modified: 9 Apr 2011, 14:36:29 UTC

Well, yu use 4 GPUs i single host... AMD's OpenCL runtime still has troubles with such configs. Try either update to recently released SDK 2.4 or try to find info (I can't recall exact wording now) about special environment variable that change synching stype for ATI OpenCL runtime.
[EDIT: Morten use many GPUs in single host too and AFAIK found that setting helpful, look/seqarch into lunatics ATi-related threads]
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Message 1095275 - Posted: 9 Apr 2011, 14:35:59 UTC

Dear Heloise...

I got cat 4.0 here.
Does not seem to affect the NV GPU performance...only kitty fur in the fans.

Am I doing something wrong?


"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 1095276 - Posted: 9 Apr 2011, 14:38:43 UTC - in response to Message 1095275.  

Dear Heloise...

I got cat 4.0 here.
Does not seem to affect the NV GPU performance...only kitty fur in the fans.

Am I doing something wrong?


ROFL, our "cats" are Cats, with big first letter. And have higher version than yours ;)
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Message 1095331 - Posted: 9 Apr 2011, 18:20:24 UTC

Well, I am now running AP r516, and the same thing is happening - I'm running 100% CPU. The cards are running at a higher percentage (typically 80-95 now vs. 50-70 before, so that's better.

My new app_info.xml is (changes at the end):

<app_info>
<app>
<name>setiathome_enhanced</name>
</app>
<file_info>
<name>AK_v8b_win_x64_SSE3.exe</name>
<executable/>
</file_info>
<app_version>
<app_name>setiathome_enhanced</app_name>
<version_num>603</version_num>
<platform>windows_intelx86</platform>
<file_ref>
<file_name>AK_v8b_win_x64_SSE3.exe</file_name>
<main_program/>
</file_ref>
</app_version>
<app_version>
<app_name>setiathome_enhanced</app_name>
<version_num>603</version_num>
<platform>windows_x86_64</platform>
<file_ref>
<file_name>AK_v8b_win_x64_SSE3.exe</file_name>
<main_program/>
</file_ref>
</app_version>
<app>
<name>astropulse_v505</name>
</app>
<file_info>
<name>ap_5.05r409_SSE.exe</name>
<executable/>
</file_info>
<app_version>
<app_name>astropulse_v505</app_name>
<version_num>505</version_num>
<platform>windows_intelx86</platform>
<file_ref>
<file_name>ap_5.05r409_SSE.exe</file_name>
<main_program/>
</file_ref>
</app_version>
<app_version>
<app_name>astropulse_v505</app_name>
<version_num>505</version_num>
<platform>windows_x86_64</platform>
<file_ref>
<file_name>ap_5.05r409_SSE.exe</file_name>
<main_program/>
</file_ref>
</app_version>

<app>
<name>setiathome_enhanced</name>
</app>
<file_info>
<name>MB_6.10_win_SSE3_ATI_HD5_r177.exe</name>
<executable/>
</file_info>
<file_info>
<name>MultiBeam_Kernels.cl</name>
<executable/>
</file_info>


<app_version>
<app_name>setiathome_enhanced</app_name>
<version_num>610</version_num>
<platform>windows_intelx86</platform>
<avg_ncpus>0.05</avg_ncpus>
<max_ncpus>0.05</max_ncpus>
<plan_class>ati13ati</plan_class>
<cmdline>-period_iterations_num 2 -instances_per_device 1</cmdline>
<flops>20987654321</flops>
<file_ref>
<file_name>MB_6.10_win_SSE3_ATI_HD5_r177.exe</file_name>
<main_program/>
</file_ref>
<file_ref>
<file_name>MultiBeam_Kernels.cl</file_name>
<copy_file/>
</file_ref>
<coproc>
<type>ATI</type>
<count>1</count>
</coproc>
</app_version>

<app>
<name>astropulse_v505</name>
</app>
<file_info>
<name>ap_5.06_win_x86_SSE2_OpenCL_ATI_r516.exe</name>
<executable/>
</file_info>
<file_info>
<name>AstroPulse_Kernels.cl</name>
<executable/>
</file_info>
<app_version>
<app_name>astropulse_v505</app_name>
<version_num>506</version_num>
<platform>windows_intelx86</platform>
<avg_ncpus>0.04</avg_ncpus>
<max_ncpus>0.20</max_ncpus>
<plan_class>ati13ati</plan_class>
<cmdline>-instances_per_device 1 -hp -unroll 10 -ffa_block 4096 -ffa_block_fetch 2048</cmdline>
<file_ref>
<file_name>ap_5.06_win_x86_SSE2_OpenCL_ATI_r516.exe</file_name>
<main_program/>
</file_ref>
<file_ref>
<file_name>AstroPulse_Kernels.cl</file_name>
<copy_file/>
</file_ref>
<coproc>
<type>ATI</type>
<count>1</count>
</coproc>
</app_version>




</app_info>


So: what's up with heavy CPU usage????
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Message 1095332 - Posted: 9 Apr 2011, 18:24:52 UTC

I tried to run the v516 ATI AP app, but my client never downloaded any tasks? Can I run SETI on just GPU or do I need to allow CPU usage as well?

Can someone post a GPU only app_info for me to use - atm I am just using what was provided on the file's download page, and it isn't working for me :(

My current app_info.xml:
<app_info> 
<app>
<name>astropulse_v505</name>
</app>
<file_info>
        <name>ap_5.06_win_x86_SSE2_OpenCL_ATI_r516.exe</name>
        <executable/>
    </file_info>
<file_info>
    <name>AstroPulse_Kernels.cl</name>
    <executable/>
</file_info>
<app_version>
        <app_name>astropulse_v505</app_name>
        <version_num>506</version_num>
        <platform>windows_intelx86</platform>
        <avg_ncpus>0.04</avg_ncpus>
        <max_ncpus>0.20</max_ncpus>
        <plan_class>ati13ati</plan_class>
<cmdline>-instances_per_device 1 -hp -unroll 10 -ffa_block 4096 -ffa_block_fetch 2048</cmdline>
<flops>30987654321</flops>
             <file_ref>
                  <file_name>ap_5.06_win_x86_SSE2_OpenCL_ATI_r516.exe</file_name>
                  <main_program/>                           
           </file_ref>
    <file_ref>
        <file_name>AstroPulse_Kernels.cl</file_name>
        <copy_file/>
    </file_ref>
   <coproc>
   <type>ATI</type>
   <count>1</count>
   </coproc>
</app_version>
</app_info> 



My current SETI preferences:
Resource share = 100
Use CPU = no
Use NVIDIA GPU = yes
Maximum CPU % for graphics = 5
Run only the selected applications	
SETI@home Enhanced = yes
Astropulse v5 = yes
Astropulse v5.05 = yes
Accept work from other applications = yes
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Message 1095336 - Posted: 9 Apr 2011, 18:31:12 UTC - in response to Message 1095332.  
Last modified: 9 Apr 2011, 18:44:37 UTC

unnefer, your app_info and preferences are fine, you just have to wait, AP is fairly rare, you might ask for work 20 times, and get none, then get 20 AP tasks on the 21st attempt.

make sure you have this line in your startup messages:

09/04/2011 19:42:34 SETI@home Found app_info.xml; using anonymous platform

and that you're actually asking for GPU work,

Claggy
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Message 1095339 - Posted: 9 Apr 2011, 18:35:58 UTC - in response to Message 1095331.  
Last modified: 9 Apr 2011, 18:40:09 UTC

So: what's up with heavy CPU usage????

Possibly the driver/SDK causing it, that's why i suggested trying Cat 11.2/SDK_2.3,

What happens if you only run AP or MB on one GPU? are the CPU times low?

Claggy
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Message 1095378 - Posted: 9 Apr 2011, 19:36:24 UTC - in response to Message 1095339.  

So: what's up with heavy CPU usage????

Possibly the driver/SDK causing it, that's why i suggested trying Cat 11.2/SDK_2.3,

What happens if you only run AP or MB on one GPU? are the CPU times low?

Claggy


I am running 4 APs now; I have a 5th waiting.
When the 4 are done, I will get a reading on the one (only) running). It should be today, as the others look like they will finish nn roughly 2-3 hours.

After that, I'll try to go back to 11.2 as you suggest.
And thanks for your interest and help.
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Message 1095380 - Posted: 9 Apr 2011, 19:39:16 UTC

To answer the thread title......

Naw, you just whine more than the NV boyz.
So your cards must be good for sumpthin'.
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Message 1095387 - Posted: 9 Apr 2011, 20:01:55 UTC - in response to Message 1095331.  
Last modified: 9 Apr 2011, 20:02:43 UTC


So: what's up with heavy CPU usage????

read my prev post again.
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=63730&nowrap=true#1095274
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Message 1095396 - Posted: 9 Apr 2011, 20:27:26 UTC - in response to Message 1095274.  

Well, yu use 4 GPUs i single host... AMD's OpenCL runtime still has troubles with such configs. Try either update to recently released SDK 2.4 or try to find info (I can't recall exact wording now) about special environment variable that change synching stype for ATI OpenCL runtime.
[EDIT: Morten use many GPUs in single host too and AFAIK found that setting helpful, look/seqarch into lunatics ATi-related threads]


The environment variable I set in for better usage of both GPUs in HD 5970 is "GPU_USE_SYNC_OBJECTS=1". This enables about 85% GPU usage for both GPUs, opposed to very low and erratic usage without the setting.

This is environment variable is undocumented, and can therefore be removed by AMD in a future release.
Morten Ross
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