Hi OzzFan,
Not trying to pick a fight/be awkward as I've read many a post from you which I've found both constructive and helpful, but... (you knew that there was going to be a 'but' didn't you!) I disagree with your stance on this issue.

"They only have 4 people, I don't think any of their jobs is Public Relations."
In a project that is funded through grants and donations, and which relies upon Joe Public to use their own computing power/time and foot the resulting electricity/broadband bills, then they are ALL very much responsible for public relations!

"Depends on your view. I find it unreasonable to expect anything."
That's just a bit of a weird attitude; I only said 'expect' not demand! I certainly DO expect to be kept 'reasonably' informed of significant issues by an organisation which presumably seeks to continue to benefit from my support. After 10 years of crunching SETI yes I do expect to be kept informed.

"Or instead of trying to use a hammer to fix the problem, users could just let the software do it's thing. We already know there's a problem due to the flurry of complaints. That's good enough to know that it's not our machines."
The software (or according to several theorists out there something else) patently ISN'T 'doing it's thing'! Something somewhere in the system is definitely broke and the silence from official sources has led to speculation whether they actually do know there's a problem beyond the 'normal' post-outage backlog.

I honestly don't think that one of the Berkeley team sparing a couple of minutes to provide an update once a day during such a major incident is expecting too much!

Cheers,
Kieron.

---

Of course some folks find it unreasonable to expect nothing.

Sure, that's a valid view, but not one to take in a volunteer effort. You get what you pay for.

With an effective outage in the 5 day working on 7 day cycle, then again, perhaps expecting more of nothing is reasonable.

It sure is. If SETI does not provide you work, you are out of nothing. If you're worried about your electric bill, join another project or power down.

That being said, there are a BUNCH of other projects, doing actual science research and they are running and processing as we remain stymied over here.

And there's no competition here. SETI is not competing against other project's uptime. You join a project based upon it's interest to you, and you run that project whenever there's work. It's as simple as that.

---

button pushers ARE NOT THE CAUSE OF THIS OUTAGE, so get off your soapbox.

No, they are not. But it doesn't help either. Why would anyone willing want to make things worse then complain about it?

---

button pushers ARE NOT THE CAUSE OF THIS OUTAGE, so get off your soapbox.

"Button Pushers" are not the cause of any outage.

After everything is fixed, there is always this tremendous crush of pending uploads and reports -- and BOINC has features to try and ease that crush so that at least some uploads and reports complete.

Each time one completes, there is a little less pending traffic, and once the backlog is clear, everything is back to speed.

Pushing buttons bypasses the BOINC features that try to ease the crush.

---

Not trying to pick a fight/be awkward as I've read many a post from you which I've found both constructive and helpful, but... (you knew that there was going to be a 'but' didn't you!) I disagree with your stance on this issue.

Understandable. Understand also that I disagree with your stance on this issue.

They only have 4 people, I don't think any of their jobs is Public Relations.

In a project that is funded through grants and donations, and which relies upon Joe Public to use their own computing power/time and foot the resulting electricity/broadband bills, then they are ALL very much responsible for public relations!

I'm afraid you're holding them up higher than necessary. Sure, there's a certain level of public relations to be had, but these are scientists we're talking about, not professional PR reps. [Edit] So don't be shocked when the PR isn't what you're used to.

Depends on your view. I find it unreasonable to expect anything.

That's just a bit of a weird attitude; I only said 'expect' not demand! I certainly DO expect to be kept 'reasonably' informed of significant issues by an organisation which presumably seeks to continue to benefit from my support. After 10 years of crunching SETI yes I do expect to be kept informed.

I know you said expect and not demand. I find the best way to not get let down is to not expect anything out of things which have no bearing on my personal life.

I can have expectations of the people around me to do their jobs. I can expect people to show up to work. I can expect people to pay their bills, etc.

I cannot expect a project, even if they are funded publicly and using Joe Public's spare CPU cycles to do much more than SETI's staff are already doing. They work on the problem(s) when there are problems to be resolved (and let's face it, when isn't there a problem of some sort, whether it's behind the scenes or in our faces).

I find the penchant of the users to expect anything more than they are already doing a bit of a weird attitude.

As stated in my other reply, you join a project for it's interests to you and you crunch the work when it's available.

Or instead of trying to use a hammer to fix the problem, users could just let the software do it's thing. We already know there's a problem due to the flurry of complaints. That's good enough to know that it's not our machines.

The software (or according to several theorists out there something else) patently ISN'T 'doing it's thing'! Something somewhere in the system is definitely broke and the silence from official sources has led to speculation whether they actually do know there's a problem beyond the 'normal' post-outage backlog.

I disagree. The software is doing exactly what it's supposed to do. If it can't connect, it will keep trying until it does. When the problem is cleared, the client will connect as it was designed to do.

The problem with the speculation of silence is that the public only makes assumptions, and it's not the project's fault if they do not come out and say something. It is the public's fault for assuming and speculating in the first place. There's nothing wrong with patiently waiting for an official response when they finally get around to it, if they get around to it.

The project knows there's a problem and they stated they are working on it. They do not need to provide a daily update if there isn't much to report.

I honestly don't think that one of the Berkeley team sparing a couple of minutes to provide an update once a day during such a major incident is expecting too much!

I honestly think there's nothing wrong with not reporting anything if there's nothing to report.

---

OK, we'll agree to disagree! You'd obviously be happy to watch 24 hour news channels even if the newsreader sat there without saying anything for days on end: Will he/won't he speak today? Ooh it's getting exciting this! I have slightly different expectations from org's that offer a service, and yes a bit more from ones that seek my continued support!

The software is doing exactly what it's supposed to do.

Like I said; several people are suggesting that the software isn't the problem, but we have not had official word to confirm/deny this.

"I honestly think there's nothing wrong with not reporting anything if there's nothing to report."

Eric's message on Friday said "I've fixed the first problem, a hot spare automatically fixed number 2 and will be working on number 3 now." If there is still 'nothing to report' some 30+ hours on then there really is a MAJOR problem which I think we should be informed of!

Not releasing statements during a brief incident is fine; explain what happened when all the fires have been put out, but when the problem persists for days then I find it hard to believe that no-one can spare two minutes whilst waiting the latest test outcome or maybe combined with a coffe break to give a few words by way of an update. Next you'll be saying they're all chained to the server 24/7!

I'm only 'expecting' an update, I'm not 'demanding' a resolution!

---

OK, we'll agree to disagree! You'd obviously be happy to watch 24 hour news channels even if the newsreader sat there without saying anything for days on end: Will he/won't he speak today? Ooh it's getting exciting this!

Hmmm... that's a slightly offensive characteristic of me. I'm sorry if my differencing of opinion bothers you, but that's no reason to say this about me. You don't know me very well (or at all), so it's obvious that your comments are borne out of frustration with my views, but I still feel that's below the belt.

I have slightly different expectations from org's that offer a service, and yes a bit more from ones that seek my continued support!

That's the problem, you think SETI is offering a service. This is not a service! SETI only asks that you spare some CPU cycles to analyze their data when they send it to you. If there's a problem getting work or returning it, you are out nothing.

The software is doing exactly what it's supposed to do.

Like I said; several people are suggesting that the software isn't the problem, but we have not had official word to confirm/deny this.

So don't listen to the static and wait for things to clear up.

I honestly think there's nothing wrong with not reporting anything if there's nothing to report.

Eric's message on Friday said "I've fixed the first problem, a hot spare automatically fixed number 2 and will be working on number 3 now." If there is still 'nothing to report' some 30+ hours on then there really is a MAJOR problem which I think we should be informed of!

They did what they thought was the proper solution and now they're observing the changes. Things take time.

Not releasing statements during a brief incident is fine; explain what happened when all the fires have been put out, but when the problem persists for days then I find it hard to believe that no-one can spare two minutes whilst waiting the latest test outcome or maybe combined with a coffe break to give a few words by way of an update. Next you'll be saying they're all chained to the server 24/7!

I'm only 'expecting' an update, I'm not 'demanding' a resolution!

Now you're going to start making assumptions about what I'm going to say? Come on! Let's remain fair here. I thought this was a civilized discussion.

Sure, you're expecting an update. You shouldn't get angry or upset if they don't. They said they are working on it and the end result is that we'll see the fruits of their efforts when things are fixed.

---

Oops it looks like someone forgot to put the off/on switch into the on position

While they not be able to hear the physical screan... They are aware that something is happening.

So while I am dead in the water on the Seti side, I do have backup projects keeping things warm while things are sorted.

So while I have other things happening in my life. I wait until things are sorted out.

Now I need to go load WinPcap to see if I can get a good TCPDump from my side. If you do not know what that is Do Not worry. Those that do will get the idea.

Regards

---

Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project.

Just a thought but remember it's Saturday. Not really a normal working day. My guess is there is only one or at most two people in working on this. He or they are doing the work of four. Give him/them a break if they don't want to stop what they are doing to give us an update, especially if they haven't figured out exactly what's going on.

---

PROUD MEMBER OF Team Starfire World BOINC

I have slightly different expectations from org's that offer a service, and yes a bit more from ones that seek my continued support!

That's the problem, you think SETI is offering a service. This is not a service! SETI only asks that you spare some CPU cycles to analyze their data when they send it to you. If there's a problem getting work or returning it, you are out nothing.

..irrespective of the idea that one can tame more flies with honey than with vinegar?


That said, there really hasn't been a major lack of info/contact from the Project folks during this "issue".

Matt posted in Technical News on 2/16 (Tue.) and 2/17 (Wed.). That was followed by a pair of posts from Eric's on 2/19 (Fri.). It's not as if they turned into the fellow that was running TSP...

Though I would not be content staring at a mute newsreader for days on end like Ozz <g>, the four instances of contact by leadership during this issue isn't all that bad, honestly. Expecting additional information, prior to Monday, is a bit over the top as they are certainly entitled to their weekend in peace.


Maybe I am alone in thinking things like this take a back seat to earned weekend time off that would be spent with family?

---

Good news, earlier tonight, around 4:30 GMT, a scheduler request finally got through for me so new work units fetched.

Bad news is I'm still not uploading and the "results last hour" metric is now 1/4th of what it's normally been over the past month.

---

"Life is just nature's way of keeping meat fresh." - The Doctor

Hi OzzFan,
No offense intended just a bit of humour that maybe didn't hit the mark!

As for "making assumptions" that's what we're all doing; you, me and dozens more on here and thousands across the world, because no-one from the Project is explaining what's happening.

A two minute update is all I asked for.

Cheers,
Kieron.

---

A two minute update is all I asked for.

Yes.

---

ET? It's me!

Just an obsevation after a week of this.

There is the possibility that there is nothing to look at at seti all is working.( The guys do not seem to be worried.)

Could this be a CAMPUS wide problem.

Has Administration put a CAP on what SETI gets.

Is there a problem in the COMMS room.

Or has the local ISP something to do with the problem (FAIR USE POLICIE).

After all there is no big problem with the link judging by the message boards.

Being in the envious position of no upload problems at the momemt and all WU’s reported and again receiving some downloads.

Michael

---

@michael
this is SPECULATIUS.

10 years of seti, the biggest project of mankind.
I think this is worth 'a two minute update', isn't it?

HSchmirPo

---

ET? It's me!

I agree But if all is green what is there to update or report.

Last time I looked at the status page all was green.


The guys do have a life outside seti and if nothing is being reported on the fault lines then there is nothing to update.

Michael

@wandering willie
Please look again.

But its not a question of splitters on/off.
Thousends of people have problems thes days with seti.
Therfore its only a two minute update.

---

ET? It's me!

"we see there is a problem and take care of it on monday" is good enough for me.
(this took 1 minute to type)

---

"we see there is a problem and take care of it on monday" is good enough for me.
(this took 1 minute to type)

Yes, but how long to decide that is a true statement? I get enough "there there, calm down" messages from my government. I don't need any more of that.

Go to the sticky thread at the top of number crunching, there is some actual information (as opposed to theory) being presented there, by people in contact with staff.

---